GI Problems are driving me nuts

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dwerten

I think they both have their place and I have seen it work in my dog with coconut oil and probiotics and i was skeptical myself but having seen these two things work wonders and then when i stopped all heck broke loose I believe it works now. No one is saying not to use the anti-fungal but supplementing with probiotics and coconut oil is done by alot and was in the whole dog journal which is a non-biased publication and many dog nutritionists recommend these things as well as human nutritionists. Many dogs and humans go through vicious cycles with antibiotics and not taking probiotics and once they stop the bacteria comes back with a vengeance even worse and i would think the same would be with a fungal infection

I do not discount the antifungal at all and definitely needs to take it but this dog has a poor immune system to have caught this to begin with as other dogs are not affected so supporting that immune system is going to be important and these two things are proven to be good for the immune system.

The hard part is most medical professionals and vets do not know much about nutrition and many times mask things with drugs and then things get worse - I wish more would take nutritional education after schooling as i know for vets they only take one class in nutrition and Hill's is the instructor of that and many vets make a ton of money on the food as it is a 40% profit to them - Now having said that it has worked wonders for my dexter the vet food so you have to go with what works with your dog and what you are comfortable with as the owner.

I saw that you suggested supplementing. What bothered me is this woman you mentioned....this quote from your other post:

This woman is totally against meds she follows food is your best medicine hypocrites (?) I bought the book but she was the one that told me about the dds plus and coconut oil i get now and she researches everything thoroughly - i will try to find info

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I would sure as hell NOT go against what the vets are recommending. Natural things are ok when used along with medical treatments. This thing that Lola has is nothing to play games with.

I don't know how these people are not sued for telling people to go against medical advice and give natural treatments when the treatments fail them. I have seen people recommend natural heartworm preventatives that have not been proven to work....and I often wonder WHO pays for the heartworm treatment when the pups get heartworms...and IF these people get sued. OR...if the poor pups are even allowed to be treated. I am not against holistic medicine, but I believe that it is not a substitute for good proven medicine.

Linda,

I certainly agree with you 100%. There is such a thing as recommendations, but offering advice over what the vet has recommended.....mmmmmmmmm That is unless one is willing to take responsibility if a dog should die., then one should be more careful in giving armchair vet advice.

Lissette has some of the best vets treating Lola and is following their advice to a T. I don't think she wants to put Lola at any additional risk. All Lissette and Lola need from us is our prayers and support.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Linda,

I certainly agree with you 100%. There is such a thing as recommendations, but offering advice over what the vet has recommended.....mmmmmmmmm That is unless one is willing to take responsibility if a dog should die., then one should be more careful in giving armchair vet advice.

Lissette has some of the best vets treating Lola and is following their advice to a T. I don't think she wants to put Lola at any additional risk. All Lissette and Lola need from us is our prayers and support.

Yep, I think people do not realize that they can be sued. And...another thought....they actually could be charged with practicing veterinary medicine without a license.
Food for thought!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Yep, I think people do not realize that they can be sued. And...another thought....they actually could be charged with practicing veterinary medicine without a license.
Food for thought!

The one statement where vets take only one class in canine nutrition is incorrect. The Bluebonnet Club took a tour of Texas A & M vet school. With this tour they attended a lecture on various things, genetics, breeding, whelping and canine nutrition......it was a two day seminar.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I saw that you suggested supplementing. What bothered me is this woman you mentioned....this quote from your other post:

This woman is totally against meds she follows food is your best medicine hypocrites (?) I bought the book but she was the one that told me about the dds plus and coconut oil i get now and she researches everything thoroughly - i will try to find info

yeah i agree i am not against meds and use them but prefer not to if I don't have to as have seen side effects of them sadly and when all goes good then great but sometimes things go bad as we have seen here when the pred made her dog worse so i do not put 100% of my trust in anyone anymore - I do my homework and work along with specialists mostly as if you put your trust 100% in one person you may be very disappointed - I understand the vet is very good but was wrong here as this was not lymphangastasia as diagnosed and given pred for it as the dog did not have low protein, low cholesterol or low calcium and dog got worse on prednisone so the good thing is the dog was sent to a specialist before this could have been a very bad outcome. This is a good vet in that respect as many have big egos and will not go to specialist just keep trying things. My vet mentioned lymphangastasia to me and i sent the blood work who has studied blood work for 40 plus years she said NO WAY because of the above and dd has perfect blood work as well and i told my vet sorry no way from everything i just read and i consulted a specialist so sometimes they are just grasping for a diagnosis to give us something to go on. Turns out dd had cpea not lymphangastasia as he suggested. Our vet also has a phd from ucdavis so sorry you really have to be diligent in educating yourself when it comes to your own health as well as the health of your dog and trust your gut instinct. I have been through alot with dee dee and have seen many mistakes by the professionals they are only human and every dog is unique and you are with the dog 24/7 not the vet and many times they spend 15 min in a room with a dog and move on to the next room.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

The one statement where vets take only one class in canine nutrition is incorrect. The Bluebonnet Club took a tour of Texas A & M vet school. With this tour they attended a lecture on various things, genetics, breeding, whelping and canine nutrition......it was a two day seminar.

I don't know how many hours they have, but I DO know they have an excellent vet in charge of nutrition at A&M. He helped me extend my beloved Cody's life an extra 6 months...and it was quality time!

[Wylie's Mom]

Lissette! I am just catching up and seeing you *finally* have a diagnosis! Oh my gosh. Who would have thought? This is really something.

Well, it sounds like you are in expert hands here with your vet. That's the most important thing - and that's exactly what I also needed when I was all over the place w/ Wylie's Cushing's stuff. {scared, frantic, questioning...}

Deep breaths, stay grounded, be confident that your vet is treating this issue using the Gold Standard. Tell your baby every moment that healing is occurring, visualize it, see the bad stuff leaving her body. {hope you don't think I'm too nutty }

I know you will get her where she needs to be: BACK TO HEALTH !

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

The one statement where vets take only one class in canine nutrition is incorrect. The Bluebonnet Club took a tour of Texas A & M vet school. With this tour they attended a lecture on various things, genetics, breeding, whelping and canine nutrition......it was a two day seminar.

so they take only a two day seminar ? I have heard it is one semester only of nutrition trained by hill's by a vet have to look into that further

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I don't know how many hours they have, but I DO know they have an excellent vet in charge of nutrition at A&M. He helped me extend my beloved Cody's life an extra 6 months...and it was quality time!

That is great as a client told me at uc davis the diet consisted of 6 tums a day for calcium and did not think that was so great when there are things such as bone meal and that is the top nutritionist school she was so furious threw the diet away and went with another nutritionist and her dog has been fine ever since - she said she is not supporting the tums industry -her dog was really sick and when she did homecooking and used bone meal her dog has not been sick for 4 years.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

so they take only a two day seminar ? I have heard it is one semester only of nutrition trained by hill's by a vet have to look into that further

No, the club went on a two day seminar.

Nutrition at Texas A & M is studied extensively. However, vets do study generalized medicine.....and as in every other medical field, there are specialized areas and one must continue on with ones education.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dwerten

yeah i agree i am not against meds and use them but prefer not to if I don't have to as have seen side effects of them sadly and when all goes good then great but sometimes things go bad as we have seen here when the pred made her dog worse so i do not put 100% of my trust in anyone anymore - I do my homework and work along with specialists mostly as if you put your trust 100% in one person you may be very disappointed - I understand the vet is very good but was wrong here as this was not lymphangastasia as diagnosed and given pred for it as the dog did not have low protein, low cholesterol or low calcium and dog got worse on prednisone so the good thing is the dog was sent to a specialist before this could have been a very bad outcome. This is a good vet in that respect as many have big egos and will not go to specialist just keep trying things. My vet mentioned lymphangastasia to me and i sent the blood work who has studied blood work for 40 plus years she said NO WAY because of the above and dd has perfect blood work as well and i told my vet sorry no way from everything i just read and i consulted a specialist so sometimes they are just grasping for a diagnosis to give us something to go on. Turns out dd had cpea not lymphangastasia as he suggested. Our vet also has a phd from ucdavis so sorry you really have to be diligent in educating yourself when it comes to your own health as well as the health of your dog and trust your gut instinct. I have been through alot with dee dee and have seen many mistakes by the professionals they are only human and every dog is unique and you are with the dog 24/7 not the vet and many times they spend 15 min in a room with a dog and move on to the next room.

I dont think he diagnosed it as lymphangastasia....he thought it was that but when it did not respond properly he sent her to a specialist. Yes, he used steroids, but he needed to get that inflammation down so that the poor thing did not lose a lot of weight from the diarrhea. I think ANY vet would have done the same thing. This was not a common thing. This was actually diagnosed fairly quickly once she got to that vet...he followed the right path imo.

As for DD...it also turns out that the many months of diarrhea were not caused by that one dose of Metacam. Now..I am NOT saying Metacam was correct to give with steroids...only saying...well you know. You told me there was a vet who told you it was not that and you did not believe him. Sometimes the vets are right...I know it is hard to trust...but you also have to be careful listening to people who dont trust them at all like that woman you mentioned. That kind of thinking scares me.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Yep, I think people do not realize that they can be sued. And...another thought....they actually could be charged with practicing veterinary medicine without a license.
Food for thought!

i guess we all could be guilty of that then lolll as many offer advice here based on their personal experiences and that is why it is a public forum offering advice on our own experiences but each of us has our own right to take that info to a vet and consult and make up our own minds to help our dogs. No one here is forcing anyone to do anything but offering advice based on experience. I guess if people are afraid of being sued then we should eliminate the sick and injured section of the group as well as health and diet and just share pictures lollll

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

yeah i agree i am not against meds and use them but prefer not to if I don't have to as have seen side effects of them sadly and when all goes good then great but sometimes things go bad as we have seen here when the pred made her dog worse so i do not put 100% of my trust in anyone anymore - I do my homework and work along with specialists mostly as if you put your trust 100% in one person you may be very disappointed - I understand the vet is very good but was wrong here as this was not lymphangastasia as diagnosed and given pred for it as the dog did not have low protein, low cholesterol or low calcium and dog got worse on prednisone so the good thing is the dog was sent to a specialist before this could have been a very bad outcome. This is a good vet in that respect as many have big egos and will not go to specialist just keep trying things. My vet mentioned lymphangastasia to me and i sent the blood work who has studied blood work for 40 plus years she said NO WAY because of the above and dd has perfect blood work as well and i told my vet sorry no way from everything i just read and i consulted a specialist so sometimes they are just grasping for a diagnosis to give us something to go on. Turns out dd had cpea not lymphangastasia as he suggested. Our vet also has a phd from ucdavis so sorry you really have to be diligent in educating yourself when it comes to your own health as well as the health of your dog and trust your gut instinct. I have been through alot with dee dee and have seen many mistakes by the professionals they are only human and every dog is unique and you are with the dog 24/7 not the vet and many times they spend 15 min in a room with a dog and move on to the next room.

I understand your intentions are good. But, you question every vets treatment. Your statements always have some form of I wouldn't or I would....and don't let them do......You have put yourself above most people's vets on this forum, not a good thing. And as you mentioned above only you know "your" dog.

This is Lissette's call and as she has said she will be following her both her vet's instructions to the T.....She has access to her vets 24/7......

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I dont think he diagnosed it as lymphangastasia....he thought it was that but when it did not respond properly he sent her to a specialist. Yes, he used steroids, but he needed to get that inflammation down so that the poor thing did not lose a lot of weight from the diarrhea. I think ANY vet would have done the same thing. This was not a common thing. This was actually diagnosed fairly quickly once she got to that vet...he followed the right path imo.

As for DD...it also turns out that the many months of diarrhea were not caused by that one dose of Metacam. Now..I am NOT saying Metacam was correct to give with steroids...only saying...well you know. You told me there was a vet who told you it was not that and you did not believe him. Sometimes the vets are right...I know it is hard to trust...but you also have to be careful listening to people who dont trust them at all like that woman you mentioned. That kind of thinking scares me.

yeah and why i make up my own mind and my dog never had diarhea before metacam for 5 years so i feel strongly it all started from there and me stopping the probiotics which is evident as i put her back on them and 7 days no diarhea and that was prior to antibiotics. Also he gave the metacam on an empty stomach on top of the steroids which is a double whamy

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dwerten

i guess we all could be guilty of that then lolll as many offer advice here based on their personal experiences and that is why it is a public forum offering advice on our own experiences but each of us has our own right to take that info to a vet and consult and make up our own minds to help our dogs. No one here is forcing anyone to do anything but offering advice based on experience. I guess if people are afraid of being sued then we should eliminate the sick and injured section of the group as well as health and diet and just share pictures lollll

There is a huge difference between sharing experiences and suggesting they ASK their vet if that might be something that would help them....and telling them: You need to do this. You need to give your dog this.

I have to tell you....maybe you think it is crazy that someone should be worried about being sued. BUT....it can happen. You will not be seeing me telling people how to treat their dog or what to give their dog over what a vet has recommended. If I think a vet might be offbase...I might suggest a second opinion; but I don't offer treatments. YES a person can be sued.

I need to go back and read the rules on that forum, but I think it does mention not giving vet advice.