Please help advice?- dog surrendered to hospitaldue to high cost of vet medical bill

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by smartpuppiepets

It may be a late advice but ... better late than never.
I am so sorry you are going through all of this but at least you had the option of surrendering your dog for them to treat instead of "putting her to sleep" as i hear more often. believe me , many had only 2 options: pay or put to sleep.

Anyways, i wanted to mention to you about pet insurance! I have been recommending it to our puppy owners. We have been so blessed, i seldom have reports of accidents or illnesses in our puppies and dogs, and when i hear something usually are accidents. but since i had a few people telling me how good insurance can be i started recommending it, at least for the first time owners i am sure it is a good investment and is also peace of mind.

Another thing i want to say , would be more like a question: Pancreatitis???
2 puppies i adopted out had it, the first one about 3 years ago , she ate chinese chicken and ended up sick, throwing up and ended up on an emergency hospital, they called me right away , and i was suspicious of the food and vets confirmed it. The spices and seasonings do not agree with dogs and most likely was too rich and caused her pancreatitis. she was given meds, and fluids and sent home. never had any other episode, she is 4 years old now.
the other puppy was a male, about a year and a half ago, he "stole" his mom cheeseburguer, did not eat the whole thing , but he was just about 6 months old at the time, she called, he was throwing up and i advised her to bring him in, her regular vet saw him, gave him fluids and other meds there and sent him home without food or water for 24 hours. he was fine next day and never had it again. Accidents happen... so it was a one time only.

Anyways, you are talking about pancreatitis as if it is something chronic?? Is that what you have been told? If it is, i need to admit that is the first time i hear of it as been a chronic condition. And how can it be genetic or hereditary??? If that was the diagnose you were given?
I would look into it, as a matter of a fact i am now curious my self. I never heard of this being a chronic condition or congenital or else.... as far as i ver knew and my vet explained to me this is triggered by fatty foods or food poisoning and as long as you keep a healthy diet there is no reason for the dog to be sick again....
I think there is more than what they are telling you !

XOXO

this is false sorry - pancreatitis can be acute or chronic. An acute attack is a one time attack from a fatty food. Chronic can be on going from ibd in small intestines triggering the pancreas which is what my dog has. My dog never got high fat meal he was on ivd white fish and potato at time of attack a very low fat food. It was the potato that triggered it. This breed is very prone to pancreatitis as on a 12 hr fast many test high on triglycerides so they have a high fat content in their blood naturally which leaves them prone to this disease. I always recommend blood work off a 12 hr fast and if your dog has high triglycerides you need to have on lowfat diet and no treats. I have two yorkies one has high triglycerides on 12 hr fast one does not. I have been dealing with an internal medicine specialist for 4 years now after my dog almost died of pancreatitis. Once they have an attack they are very susceptible to another one. When my dog gets anything but his regular food and we are talking a tiny piece of yam steamed no butter, etc and the size of my pinky nail he went into a violent vomitting attack for 8 hrs. Once these dogs have the attack you have to be very strict as the slightest thing can set them off as i freaked when this yam incident and i called the hospital and they said it is not only fatty foods it can be anything once they have had pancreatitis as the pancreas helps in digestion so anything out of the normal can set it off. Luckily i was able to get him back on track quickly but it scared me into never doing anything but his kibble purina ha. Here is the info below and steroids can also trigger pancreatitis. No pupperonis and do only low fat treats in this breed.

Pancreatitis (Inflammation) in Dogs

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

Uh, are you sure about that? Please see below:

When the pancreas is injured either from disease or from trauma, the production of digestive enzymes decreases, or the enzymes may actually start to digest surrounding organs including the pancreas itself.
"This disease mimics and can be mimicked by almost any acute gastrointestinal disorder as well as a variety of extra-intestinal diseases," says Colin Burrows, BVetMed, Ph.D, MRCVS, professor of medicine, University of Florida, Gainsville, Florida. "Severe cases are routinely included in the differential diagnosis." The most common ones are 1) acute gastroenteritis; 2) exacerbations of inflammatory bowel disease; 3) intestinal obstruction; 4) peritonitis; and 5) acute renal failure.
Pancreatitis is the disorder that happens when the pancreas becomes inflamed. There are two classification of the disease, chronic and acute.
"Basically, there are differences between chronic and acute," says Dr. Jorg Steiner, DVM, DACZIM, DECZIM, Gastrointestinal Laboratory Professor, Texas A&M, College Station, TX. "The most important, when acute pancreatitis is over, there is no remaining damage to organs. Acute is more commonly severe, and chronic is more commonly mild."
"Pancreatitis can be very serious," says Dr. Mary Labato, DVM, internal medicine, Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine, North Grafton, MA. "It can run the gamut from mild with vomiting to life threatening and the cause of rapid death."
"Acute pancreatitis is the inflammation of the pancreas that occurs abruptly with little or no permanent pathologic change," say Dr. Labato. "Acute necrotizing pancreatitis is a life threatening disease that can lead to acute renal failure, pleural effusion, and death. Chronic pancreatitis is a continuing inflammatory disease that is often accompanied by irreversible changes."

thanks just saw this and this is right on - an acute attack however can lead to chronic and the problem with it is it can lead to diabetes or epi if they keep getting it over and over so then you have another health issue to deal with and both of those are tough. The diabetes comes from the pancreas not being able to any longer control the insulin levels and epi is caused from pancreas enzymes no longer working so the dog can basically starve to death as they eat and eat yet the body does not retain the food and the dog starves to death slowly unless you supplement with enzymes which is not cheap so VERY IMPORTANT to have a handle on this from the first attack or you are asking for a bigger issue The other thing is steroids many times are used to treat ibd yet it can trigger the pancreas into an attack so these digestive issues are very importan to control with diet so drugs are not put into the equation. Luckily my dex is controlled with diet alone. The purina ha is a hydrolized soy diet that is broken down protein so it is easily digested. Any inflammatory foods like white potato should not be given. Ibd dogs do better on a grain diet than white potato or you can go with sweet potato as it is in a different night shade family and not inflammatory in nature. But see vets do not know all this as they know very little about nutrition and only relay on food manufacturers - I paid very close attention and limited everything and i happened to be pilling my other yorkie with white potato and gave him a piece a small piece as well as my maltese and both of them vomitted the potato and my boy yorkie vomitted alot that day and that is when i knew it was potato. and then i went back to my notes and noticed he got pancreatitis on ivd white fish and potato diet, then when we switched to dd salmon and potato after being on ultra zd for 2 months and being fine he got violently ill all common denominator WHITE POTATO. I googled and it is an inflammatory food so it was inflaming his small intestines as it backed up and all came up in vomit. He NEVER had diarhea so his is strictly in small intestines not large as I do not think in 6 years he has ever had diarhea. It was like the white potato inflamed his small intestines backed him up then whamo massive vomitting-- vomitting and diarhea means the entire intestinal tract is inflamed

[dwerten]

what bothered me about this vet is she force fed your dog when it was sick. If the dog is not eating there is something wrong and they are trying to tell you something. Why would a vet do something like this with a dog with digestive issues that is insane to me. Also what upset me is a vitamin B shot FOR WHAT? I have never read anything about giving vitamin b for pancreatitis that is absurd. If the dog is not eating run the blood work and see what is going on and had this vet done that maybe this dog would not have had a violent attack the next day. My dog in all the vomitting he did NEVER vomitted blood so i would think it is pretty serious if vomitting blood and diarhea blood as that is serious.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by ally173

my dog had a pancreatitis attack but since she was only 2 years and had a chance to live by treatment; the vet didn't want to put her to sleep; only dogs that have no chance or little chance to live will have that option.
my dog was always showing symptoms of anorexia and vomiting; but for 2 years i have been asking the vet and they diagnosed her with gastritis; which is a common thing if you read about it. sometimes chronic pancreatitis is hard to diagnos until a full blow attack is present; and those attacks are unpredictable; in this case it was because the vet force fed my dog the night before.
thanks for your input

my dog had his attack at 2 years old as well. He was perfectly healthy prior. I disagree pancreatitis and epi show up on blood work and a dog that has had digestive issues should have a spec cpli and tli run. The cpli is to test for pancreatitis and tli is to test for epi. If your dog was starving it could have been epi and enzyme therapy would have been necessary. A dog can eat and starve if they have epi. If these two tests were not run I would ask WHY NOT? amylase and lipase are not always accurate in diagnosing pancreatitis as they were all over the place with dex - when he felt good they were high when he was sick they were normal so i do not put much credence in those tests but the dog will tend to have high triglycerides as well as high white blood cell count as that is a sign of infection so a snap in house cpli tli can be done to determine quickly as sending out to lab takes 3-4 days to get results. If the dog tests high on cpli yet is not sick then they are finding this is tied to ibd per our internal medicine specialist and she said dogs that tend to test high on amylase and lipase regularly also tend to have ibd she is finding. She is the best in our county and works at the specialty hospital where they train new vets 4 a year out of vet school. She is awesome and saved my dogs life. I trust her completely. She is doing a study right now on triglycerides being tied to pancreatitis. I questioned it when dex was doing great for 4 years and his latest blood work came back high on triglycerides after a 12 fast then i read in the whole dog journal about hypolipidermia and dogs with high triglycerides on 12 fast are prone to pancreatitis. I then immediately called her and asked could this be partly why dex had pancreatitis and my other two did not yet they all ate the same thing. She said funny you should ask as i am doing a study on this now. I said I believe this is true as it makes sense. High fat content in the blood and article said certain breeds have this and yorkies are one and why i believe this breed gets it more than others as they did say alot of yorkies are coming into the hospital with this so it all makes sense as i was racking my brain for years why my dex almost died and i am a very analytical person so i had to know what caused my boy to be so sick so it never happened again and i could help others

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by smartpuppiepets

I think you are blessed anyways to have the vet give you that option. I have friends and i know people that only got the cold: pay or put to sleep option. And they were so desperate. who would not be?
It may not be very useful or comforting now but if the dog can now have an owner that will be able to care for her for life that may be the best for the dog and for you.
Can you at least get updates? on how well the dog is, and who the adoptive person will be?
And by your explanation, it was only diagnosed because of the force feeding... but it was there already right? the force feeding just caused the full blown attack... and from what i understand it will most likely happen again?
Well, i hope you will find ways to cope and it will all resolve on the best way for all involved.
You must be very hurt and words may never be enough to comfort you.
XOXO

The force feeding triggered it because if the vet did the blood work and found out it was pancreatitis then no food or meds through mouth for 48-72hrs as anything food, water, meds can trigger the pancreas so had this vet not done that and done the testing properly to see why the dog was not eating, did a palpatation of the abdomin as the dog was probably in pain as it was crying out in pain the next day then this vet would have known from the dogs history this could be a problem. Instead they did the lazy way shoved food in the mouth, gave a shot for what?, and wanted to go on about her holiday and sent a sick dog home to an owner to deal with at an expensive emergency facility thus having the owner give up her dog to cover the bill. Very sad. Had this been dealt with the day before the dog may not have gone into a full blown attack. I think the vet was negligent in this case sadly knowing this dogs history.

This is exactly why when it is more severe illness in a dog i go right to a specialist internal medicine to consult and do my homework as they have further education in internal organs, etc and can get to the heart of the problem much sooner than a regular vet. The prob is most people like myself do not know about these people until something bad happens. I had no clue what an ims was but when this vet said my dog may die i was fuming and called around for the best in the county and a 24 hr facility for fluids so my dog did not have to be transported back and forth to er and vet which would stress them out of which STRESS can also trigger pancreatitis. Every vet said this same lady is the best so i called her and said i am bringing my dog NOW you have to save his life. I believe if i left my dog in that vets care he would have died.

[dwerten]

also if this dog got sick 4 times and that vet could not get her better after one or two times then they should have referred to a specialist as it obviously is beyond their expertise and any vet should know that a chronic case of pancreatitis can lead to those other two diseases and it is serious so to not get a specialist involved after the second attack is negligent as well knowing this could lead to a dog that is more sick.

[ally173]

Originally Posted by smartpuppiepets

I think you are blessed anyways to have the vet give you that option. I have friends and i know people that only got the cold: pay or put to sleep option. And they were so desperate. who would not be?
It may not be very useful or comforting now but if the dog can now have an owner that will be able to care for her for life that may be the best for the dog and for you.
Can you at least get updates? on how well the dog is, and who the adoptive person will be?
And by your explanation, it was only diagnosed because of the force feeding... but it was there already right? the force feeding just caused the full blown attack... and from what i understand it will most likely happen again?
Well, i hope you will find ways to cope and it will all resolve on the best way for all involved.
You must be very hurt and words may never be enough to comfort you.
XOXO

thanks for your support;
i tried and am still trying to fight for her; i am sending letters to CEOs and organizaition and board of vet medical examiner; hoping to hear some good news.
i did ask the vet at the ER to please keep me updated by email at least; but nothing yet; i think they are not allowed to contact me; which is really hard; i would like at least to hear that she's doing well; that she's healthy and happy.
i keep having dreams about her; i used to have a routine; around 5am pick her up from her bed and put her next to me in bed;
now i wake up at 5am and i swear i can feel her that she's looking for me too; so i just hold her shirt and go back to sleep disapointed.
i think she looks and wait for me too.
it breaks my heart.

[ally173]

Originally Posted by dwerten

also if this dog got sick 4 times and that vet could not get her better after one or two times then they should have referred to a specialist as it obviously is beyond their expertise and any vet should know that a chronic case of pancreatitis can lead to those other two diseases and it is serious so to not get a specialist involved after the second attack is negligent as well knowing this could lead to a dog that is more sick.

thanks for all your input; i wish i knew about all this before; i trusted those idiots and hoped that she will get better; they kept putting her on antibiotics and pepcid saying it's gastritis; and never even once questioned ibd or pancreatitis; no other tests were done; so i am thinking maybe she doesnt even have pancreatitis; maybe it's ibd or some other intestinal problem
but i will never know now; i hope the vet at the er can diagnose her properly and take care of her
but if ava is stressed out because she's looking for me; then she will get an attack again; but i am hopping not

[SweetKiaraJ]

I have been following this thread from day one and it truly breaks my heart. The more I am reading and learning, the sadder this thread gets.

Ally173, first let me say that I am so sorry for your ordeal. I can imagine the heartbreak you are feeling and not only that but you must be terrified for you dog as well, wondering and worrying how she is getting along.

Personally, I feel that what was done to you is cruel. Like some of the others, I feel that you were somewhat desperate, pressured and scared. I believe that you made this decision under extreme duress. While I do understand that vets are a financial business, they are also supposed to be in the business of healing and doing what is humane for the pet. I'm sorry but separating a severely ill pet from its owner during a time of crisis is NOT humane or doing what is in the best interest of the dog. So now, not only is this dog incredibly ill, but imagine how terrified and stressed out she must be too! Left in a strange place surrounded by nobody that she knows without even a visit or any contact from the one person she trusts and loves most in this world. We all know this dog is longing for its owner!! How is that not adding extra stress on the dog? Some ill dogs may even give up the fight..

I believe that any vet with a heart would have worked with ally173. It was obvious she had been caring for this dog and its health issues for years, she had the records and the bills to prove it. She was doing everything in her power to help her dog. She was lead astray by a previous bad vet who completely gave her inadequate info and poor medical care to her dog. So, she goes to another vet and their best suggestion is for her to abandon her pet??!! What kind of world is this we live in? This makes me so furious. She is trying to find help, not a new home for her dog. She has already spent 8K on this dog, she does not have another 4K at her disposal at this time. That is not to say that she may not be able to raise the funds or come up with money for future medical expenses either. She was not given a chance. It was an on the spot thing, either give us all the money now, or give us your dog...

ally173, I hate this for you. I truly do. I pray that you can come up with the 4K somehow. If you were able to, then you may have a fighting chance with the animal hospital to get your dog back. I can't see any caring vet withholding a pet from their owner if they are able to pay. I do know at this point there are legal aspects so its a gamble but it couldn't hurt to try. As others have mentioned, you do need to first consider whether or not you can continue to care for this dogs medical expenses. Now that you have a better idea of what is really wrong with your dog, you can have a fighting chance to prevent future attacks. Yet, you would need to be prepared for the event of life long medical issues and expenses.

I agree with many others that Banfield does own some responsibility in this. Continue with your efforts. Media coverage is sometimes the quickest and most effective way to yield results. Bombard your local stations with emails and phone calls.

Good luck to both you and your little one. My prayers are with you.

[ally173]

I want to thanks you all again and i ask you for a huge favor; can all of you help me please fight for Ava
Can you write a letter to the CEO of the ER hospital telling them how you feel and what was done to me was cruel and unjust and that Ava needs to be with me; this is the info
Dr. Michael Palescandolo:
Animal Emergency & Referral Associates
1237 Bloomfield Avenue
Fairfield, NJ 07004

Also can you please email the CEO and client relation of Banfield; telling them that they should be held responsible of paying the ER bill to help me get my dog; this is the info
Karen.Johnson@Banfield.net and john.payne@banfield.net
The hospital responsible for this is Banfield hospital at 400 Milk Creek Drive, Secaucus, NJ 07094; they can't help me there; we have to write to CEO and headquarters

My dog's name is Ava Saade and my name is Elisar Saade
I would be forever grateful and in your debt; i just don't want to give up yet.
Let me know if you need any further information
Thanks much and god bless

[miabellaamoure]

Originally Posted by ally173

I want to thanks you all again and i ask you for a huge favor; can all of you help me please fight for Ava
Can you write a letter to the CEO of the ER hospital telling them how you feel and what was done to me was cruel and unjust and that Ava needs to be with me; this is the info
Dr. Michael Palescandolo:
Animal Emergency & Referral Associates
1237 Bloomfield Avenue
Fairfield, NJ 07004

Also can you please email the CEO and client relation of Banfield; telling them that they should be held responsible of paying the ER bill to help me get my dog; this is the info
Karen.Johnson@Banfield.net and john.payne@banfield.net
The hospital responsible for this is Banfield hospital at 400 Milk Creek Drive, Secaucus, NJ 07094; they can't help me there; we have to write to CEO and headquarters

My dog's name is Ava Saade and my name is Elisar Saade
I would be forever grateful and in your debt; i just don't want to give up yet.
Let me know if you need any further information
Thanks much and god bless

I will gladly write on your behalf to fight for "your" Ava.

Your plight for Ava's return is admirable an obviously a sign of your love...how could I say no?

I encourage anyone else here who loves their pet and would hate to be faced with a similar situation to stand up for Elisar & help her bring Ava home or at least put a stop to this practice of "pay up or sign over" another beloved pet!


Jo Ann

[DvlshAngel985]

I am so sorry to hear this happen to you. I have no experience with these types of situations but I beleive I have heard from a neighboor that went through this that the vet office has a grace period. Vets know we love our babies and in times of desperation we will do what we can for them. My neighboor signed over her doxie to the vet because she couldn't afford the $3000 sugergery. The surgery was done and the doxie survived and since they knew things were done in desperation and my neighboor decided she wanted her baby back they allowed her to get her dog bace because it was still within the grace period. She is paying the bill in installments.
Anyway, what I'm trying to ask is, does the vet have this system? Even if they don't, would you be willing to ask to pay them in installments? I know I don't have all the money in the world so keeping that in mind this is what I would ask to do for my baby.
I'm really only trying to help and I'm sorry if this info is too late.

[ally173]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I am so sorry to hear this happen to you. I have no experience with these types of situations but I beleive I have heard from a neighboor that went through this that the vet office has a grace period. Vets know we love our babies and in times of desperation we will do what we can for them. My neighboor signed over her doxie to the vet because she couldn't afford the $3000 sugergery. The surgery was done and the doxie survived and since they knew things were done in desperation and my neighboor decided she wanted her baby back they allowed her to get her dog bace because it was still within the grace period. She is paying the bill in installments.
Anyway, what I'm trying to ask is, does the vet have this system? Even if they don't, would you be willing to ask to pay them in installments? I know I don't have all the money in the world so keeping that in mind this is what I would ask to do for my baby.
I'm really only trying to help and I'm sorry if this info is too late.

it's an ER hospital i think that's why they don't accept installements; i did ask them and they said they need the whole amount
i think independent vets are different.
thanks all again

[ally173]

ok; karen from banfield client relation called to basically defend banfield and to say they did nothing wrong; and that i gave my dog up and that i am responsible for her.
i tried telling that if it wasn't for the vet force feeding my dog she wouldnt be in the hospital; she said the vet didn't force feed the dog ; she "syringe fed her";
isn't that the same i said?
i brought my dog in because she didnt' want to eat or drink; so she obviously force fed her
anyhow she said they won't offer me anything; to get my dog back or any money back
however they want me to take the posts off because she's offended by me disclosing their information; and that she's getting emails from people who don't know the real story; (i think i know the story since it happened to me)
i think i know my rights; and this is called freedom of speech; i am not telling lies; just facts as they happened
she can call it my opinion; but i know my dog for 2 years and that day she didnt want to eat or drink
anyhow; i tried my hardest to fight for Ava with these people
maybe if they or the EC get enough letters something can be done
again i am deeply grateful for all your support
and please spread the word to AVOID BANFIELD AT ALL COSTS

[smartpuppiepets]

Originally Posted by ally173

ok; karen from banfield client relation called to basically defend banfield and to say they did nothing wrong; and that i gave my dog up and that i am responsible for her.
i tried telling that if it wasn't for the vet force feeding my dog she wouldnt be in the hospital; she said the vet didn't force feed the dog ; she "syringe fed her";
isn't that the same i said?
i brought my dog in because she didnt' want to eat or drink; so she obviously force fed her
anyhow she said they won't offer me anything; to get my dog back or any money back
however they want me to take the posts off because she's offended by me disclosing their information; and that she's getting emails from people who don't know the real story; (i think i know the story since it happened to me)
i think i know my rights; and this is called freedom of speech; i am not telling lies; just facts as they happened
she can call it my opinion; but i know my dog for 2 years and that day she didnt want to eat or drink
anyhow; i tried my hardest to fight for Ava with these people
maybe if they or the EC get enough letters something can be done
again i am deeply grateful for all your support
and please spread the word to AVOID BANFIELD AT ALL COSTS

I Admire you for trying your best so hard ... i hope it pays off and you will get something back, hopefully your dog ! Who knows... i sincerely hope you get more answers !

At least you know that fellow YTalkers are writing ... that is somewhat comforting...

life is full of bad and good moments... i hope the good come back for you soon !

XOXO