has anyone heard of portosystemic shunt and AAI? - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

dwerten · 11-11-2009, 10:34 PM

you need to tell your roommate knowledge is power and you need to work as a team with vet to figure out what is wrong so you can narrow things down faster to get her relief. Take the info here in am and get with your vet and start asking questions as sadly vets do not know all on everything and why there are specialists and due to paralysis, loss of bladder this is neurological and spinal NOT liver and if menangitis there would be seizures and shaking is not a seizure trust me you know when a dog has had a seizure and it is not shaking it is convulsing or the petit mal is laying on side stiff with a dazed look and many times they vomit after having a seizure or are spaced out afterwards. Loss of bladder is a sign of a seizure but the amount of pain you are describing more comes with AAI as that is extremely painful. Do you notice any signs of her stiffening her neck at all to the side?

dwerten · 11-11-2009, 10:36 PM

go on to youtube.com and search petit mal seizure and grand mal and you will see what it looks like - I will look to see if there is the aai on there now

dwerten · 11-11-2009, 10:42 PM

YouTube - Atlantoaxial Instability

look at these videos and the chihuahua looks like what you are describing with the legs out etc

dwerten · 11-11-2009, 10:46 PM

Atlantoaxial Instability (Luxation)

more info I am 99.9% this is it the more i read after trauma like you describe from falling down stairs -

randiik · 11-12-2009, 06:14 AM

thank you so much for all this information. i am waiting still for the test to come back to rule out the shunt. i am hoping that the doctor will start steriods today to get her stable so at least then i can take her to a vet school. i will do just about anything to save my little girl. i have never ever loved a dog like i love her. she is my best friend, my companion and my baby. we are very attached together. she is by my side all the time that i am home. we play and she sleeps with me too. she loves to sit on my lap when i watch tv and i really am missing her. i am going to go to see her this morning and take her a toy that i slept with last night so that she knows i havent just left her by herself. then i can talk to the vet and ask what he thinks and to start treatment asap. thank you everyone again for so much information.. it does help to know.

randiik · 11-12-2009, 07:13 AM

i just talked to the vet and the test results came back with the bile levels elevated. he is able to rotate her neck totally with no pain so the episodes she has with the pain are not neck related and they dont seem to have a center but sporatic. he has started treatment with a low protein diet and the meds that start with a L. he started that treatment yesterday and she should show signs of improvement within 48-72 hours. if not then he will start the steriods. i am going to see her in a few minutes and take a toy that i slept with so hopefully that will comfort her and let her know that mommie has not forgotten her.

dwerten · 11-12-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randiik

i just talked to the vet and the test results came back with the bile levels elevated. he is able to rotate her neck totally with no pain so the episodes she has with the pain are not neck related and they dont seem to have a center but sporatic. he has started treatment with a low protein diet and the meds that start with a L. he started that treatment yesterday and she should show signs of improvement within 48-72 hours. if not then he will start the steriods. i am going to see her in a few minutes and take a toy that i slept with so hopefully that will comfort her and let her know that mommie has not forgotten her.

i would take her to neurologist and have xrays done still

what were the bile acids? If bile acids are high steroids are very hard on the liver so why would he be giving steroids? The food is L/D and the meds are denomarin which is milk thistle and sam-e -- if the bile acids are over 100 that is more indicative of a shunt and if below 100 most likely mvd which my dog has - The paralysis part has me more concerned neurological so please post ALT numbers and pre and post bile acids for us to review as a lot of vets are not real up on liver shunt and any elevation they want to go right to that

the L is lactulose i am thinking

Elle · 11-12-2009, 08:53 AM

It is common in this breed. I'm sorry your little girl is sick. I hope they find out what is wrong with her very quickly!

Ladymom · 11-12-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randiik

i just talked to the vet and the test results came back with the bile levels elevated. he is able to rotate her neck totally with no pain so the episodes she has with the pain are not neck related and they dont seem to have a center but sporatic. he has started treatment with a low protein diet and the meds that start with a L. he started that treatment yesterday and she should show signs of improvement within 48-72 hours. if not then he will start the steriods. i am going to see her in a few minutes and take a toy that i slept with so hopefully that will comfort her and let her know that mommie has not forgotten her.

Has your vet suggested a Protein C Test? That will tell him if she has a shunt or MVD. Many vets are not even aware of this test, so I have attached information about it for you to share with him.

Comparative Coagulation -- NYS Animal Health Diagnostic Center

TresCutePiggies · 11-12-2009, 09:32 AM

I see you are in Marietta, GA. I highly recommend taking your little one to Georgia Veterinary Specialists - they are an excellent vet and are in keeping with the Vet School Hospitals. They will have the resources to help you no matter what her diagnosis is.

Here is the link: Georgia Veterinary Specialists

I hope you can figure out what is wrong and start treating her quickly.

randiik · 11-12-2009, 10:30 AM

her bile levels are 34 and 39. which is not as high as a bad shunt which he told me is usually over a 100. but normal levels are 7. thats what he told me. i went to see her and she seems dazed and didnt focus on me at all. her eyes kept darting around and she was wrapped up in towel and i just held her and talked to her. she was calm but not herself thats for sure. she did have a yelping episode when the girl handed her to me but it seemed that she was just confused and that is why she was yelping. once i spoke to her in a soothing voice she quieted down but still did not look straight at me.

i have heard about the vets at the Georgia Veterinary Specialists but i also heard that they are so expensive and i am looking into financial help from the links that are on the the other thread to help me. my doctor is young and seems up on all the things that yorkies can have. he doesnt think that she has the aai. he is still leaning towards the shunt and/or meningitis. hoping that medicine he is giving her will help.

dwerten · 11-12-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randiik

her bile levels are 34 and 39. which is not as high as a bad shunt which he told me is usually over a 100. but normal levels are 7. thats what he told me. i went to see her and she seems dazed and didnt focus on me at all. her eyes kept darting around and she was wrapped up in towel and i just held her and talked to her. she was calm but not herself thats for sure. she did have a yelping episode when the girl handed her to me but it seemed that she was just confused and that is why she was yelping. once i spoke to her in a soothing voice she quieted down but still did not look straight at me.

i have heard about the vets at the Georgia Veterinary Specialists but i also heard that they are so expensive and i am looking into financial help from the links that are on the the other thread to help me. my doctor is young and seems up on all the things that yorkies can have. he doesnt think that she has the aai. he is still leaning towards the shunt and/or meningitis. hoping that medicine he is giving her will help.

girl those numbers are not high at all

it is something else not liver shunt - have her checked by neurologist. My dd had post biles of 73 and 57 and never acted like that - normal is 25 and below it is not liver shunt hun - join the liver shunt group i posted and they can confirm this for you as well -- What was the ALT on blood work?

dwerten · 11-12-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Has your vet suggested a Protein C Test? That will tell him if she has a shunt or MVD. Many vets are not even aware of this test, so I have attached information about it for you to share with him.

Comparative Coagulation -- NYS Animal Health Diagnostic Center

sorry but the protein c test is not even accurate as a dog i helped had one come up negative and the dog had 4 shunts so i do not trust the protein c test after that and i reviewed it as well as he faxed it to me so not a big fan of protein C test and i really do not think this dog has a shunt so if i felt it did i would recommend scintigraphy but i do not think that is necessary - this seems more neurological to me

randiik · 11-12-2009, 09:22 PM

after all that i have read on these forums i do not think its the shunt either. the bile wasnt high enough. the vet said that it was elevated enough for concern and did start her on the meds. the one that starts with a L. but when i saw her today she just was totally out of it and didnt even know me. her eyes didnt focus on me at all and she didnt sniff or lick me. i am going to contact the other vet tomorrow and see what they say. her symptoms sound like meningitis or aai. i have been applying for financial help from all the links on the list from here. hopeing and praying that my little girl can get the right treatment asap. i have to keep busy trying to do anything i can think of to help her. if i just sit all i do is cry and that doesnt help her at all.

i want to give her the best chance at a good life as possible. i do not want her to have pain or not be able to play and enjoy herself. i want her to live. i need her to live. she is so sweet and has the best personality in the world.. or to me she does.

thanks so much for all your replies and information. i cant tell you how much it helps.

pps.. what are ALT numbers? the vet said her blood work came back inconclusive.

randiik · 11-12-2009, 09:23 PM

oops double post. sorry

11-12-2009, 09:32 AM	#40
TresCutePiggies Owned by Rory & Lane Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,893	Vet recommendation I see you are in Marietta, GA. I highly recommend taking your little one to Georgia Veterinary Specialists - they are an excellent vet and are in keeping with the Vet School Hospitals. They will have the resources to help you no matter what her diagnosis is. Here is the link: Georgia Veterinary Specialists I hope you can figure out what is wrong and start treating her quickly. __________________ Rory and Lane now have a dog blog, Doggie Debutantes. Find us on Facebook here.

11-12-2009, 09:22 PM	#44
randiik Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: marietta, ga Posts: 99	after all that i have read on these forums i do not think its the shunt either. the bile wasnt high enough. the vet said that it was elevated enough for concern and did start her on the meds. the one that starts with a L. but when i saw her today she just was totally out of it and didnt even know me. her eyes didnt focus on me at all and she didnt sniff or lick me. i am going to contact the other vet tomorrow and see what they say. her symptoms sound like meningitis or aai. i have been applying for financial help from all the links on the list from here. hopeing and praying that my little girl can get the right treatment asap. i have to keep busy trying to do anything i can think of to help her. if i just sit all i do is cry and that doesnt help her at all. i want to give her the best chance at a good life as possible. i do not want her to have pain or not be able to play and enjoy herself. i want her to live. i need her to live. she is so sweet and has the best personality in the world.. or to me she does. thanks so much for all your replies and information. i cant tell you how much it helps. pps.. what are ALT numbers? the vet said her blood work came back inconclusive. Last edited by randiik; 11-12-2009 at 09:27 PM.

11-12-2009, 09:23 PM	#45
randiik Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: marietta, ga Posts: 99	oops double post. sorry Last edited by randiik; 11-12-2009 at 09:25 PM.

11-11-2009, 10:34 PM	#31
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	you need to tell your roommate knowledge is power and you need to work as a team with vet to figure out what is wrong so you can narrow things down faster to get her relief. Take the info here in am and get with your vet and start asking questions as sadly vets do not know all on everything and why there are specialists and due to paralysis, loss of bladder this is neurological and spinal NOT liver and if menangitis there would be seizures and shaking is not a seizure trust me you know when a dog has had a seizure and it is not shaking it is convulsing or the petit mal is laying on side stiff with a dazed look and many times they vomit after having a seizure or are spaced out afterwards. Loss of bladder is a sign of a seizure but the amount of pain you are describing more comes with AAI as that is extremely painful. Do you notice any signs of her stiffening her neck at all to the side?

11-11-2009, 10:36 PM	#32
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	go on to youtube.com and search petit mal seizure and grand mal and you will see what it looks like - I will look to see if there is the aai on there now

11-11-2009, 10:42 PM	#33
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	YouTube - Atlantoaxial Instability look at these videos and the chihuahua looks like what you are describing with the legs out etc

11-11-2009, 10:46 PM	#34
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	Atlantoaxial Instability (Luxation) more info I am 99.9% this is it the more i read after trauma like you describe from falling down stairs -

11-12-2009, 06:14 AM	#35
randiik Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: marietta, ga Posts: 99	thank you so much for all this information. i am waiting still for the test to come back to rule out the shunt. i am hoping that the doctor will start steriods today to get her stable so at least then i can take her to a vet school. i will do just about anything to save my little girl. i have never ever loved a dog like i love her. she is my best friend, my companion and my baby. we are very attached together. she is by my side all the time that i am home. we play and she sleeps with me too. she loves to sit on my lap when i watch tv and i really am missing her. i am going to go to see her this morning and take her a toy that i slept with last night so that she knows i havent just left her by herself. then i can talk to the vet and ask what he thinks and to start treatment asap. thank you everyone again for so much information.. it does help to know.

11-12-2009, 07:13 AM	#36
randiik Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: marietta, ga Posts: 99	i just talked to the vet and the test results came back with the bile levels elevated. he is able to rotate her neck totally with no pain so the episodes she has with the pain are not neck related and they dont seem to have a center but sporatic. he has started treatment with a low protein diet and the meds that start with a L. he started that treatment yesterday and she should show signs of improvement within 48-72 hours. if not then he will start the steriods. i am going to see her in a few minutes and take a toy that i slept with so hopefully that will comfort her and let her know that mommie has not forgotten her.

11-12-2009, 08:53 AM	#38
Elle YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 881	It is common in this breed. I'm sorry your little girl is sick. I hope they find out what is wrong with her very quickly!

11-12-2009, 10:30 AM	#41
randiik Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: marietta, ga Posts: 99	her bile levels are 34 and 39. which is not as high as a bad shunt which he told me is usually over a 100. but normal levels are 7. thats what he told me. i went to see her and she seems dazed and didnt focus on me at all. her eyes kept darting around and she was wrapped up in towel and i just held her and talked to her. she was calm but not herself thats for sure. she did have a yelping episode when the girl handed her to me but it seemed that she was just confused and that is why she was yelping. once i spoke to her in a soothing voice she quieted down but still did not look straight at me. i have heard about the vets at the Georgia Veterinary Specialists but i also heard that they are so expensive and i am looking into financial help from the links that are on the the other thread to help me. my doctor is young and seems up on all the things that yorkies can have. he doesnt think that she has the aai. he is still leaning towards the shunt and/or meningitis. hoping that medicine he is giving her will help.