Dying from Liver Disease/seizure meds

[AbbysMom08]

I'm so sorry that Roxy is so sick.
It's so hard when our furbabies are sick.
I will keep her in my prayers.

[Ladymom]

Ultrasounds can be only about 60% reliable in diagnosing shunts. Neurological symptoms are unusual in MVD. If she has a shunt, it is the toxins in her body causing the seizures.

At this point I think you need to find an internal medicine specialist asap if you want to save Roxy's life. You need someone qualified to diagnose liver shunts, treat her current liver damage and deal with the medication that is killing her. It is obviously beyond the expertise of your regular vet if he is advising putting her to sleep.

[Beachitmom]

My little Roxy girl is totally back to herself as of yesterday!! Yahoo!!

She is barking for her treat after she "goes" in her litterbox. She is jumping up on the bed and couch again. She is eating and running around the house.

I don't know how or why, but I am not questioning it. She goes back to the vet on Monday.

When I told him I wanted to put her to sleep because she was suffering so much, he told me to give the meds a week. I don't know how long this will last, but we are all very thankful for this extra time with her.

I will update again on Monday. I like to keep a record of how she is feeling and what she is doing, it is helpful.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Beachitmom

Wow lady'smom. Did your girl have liver disease also?
Yes, my vet has always monitored Roxy's levels. He will not fill the perscription unless I have the levels checked. I have been with my vet since Roxy was 2 months old. She has been on the pheno since then, along with the Hills L/D perscription diet.

He just added the Potassium Brom within the past 4 months because she had another grand mahl seizure and was having petite while sleeping.
We all thought the symptoms she was having were due to the meds she was on.

The kicker is he called me with the results of her levels for meds and they were perfect! Finally got her seizure free, but the pheno attacked her liver. Since she already had liver disease, the pheno just made it worse. Can't take her off of the pheno or she will die from the seizures. There is no winning.

Here is a list of what Roxy is on now. Vet added the last 4 this week to help her liver and keep her "comfortable"

Roxy’s meds

Phenobarbitol 16.2 mg 2X a day (Started when she was 2 months old)

Potassium Brom 100ML 2X a day (started about 4 months ago)

This week-

Hepatrophin PMG 1 Tab 2X a day

Aminophylline ½ Tab 2X a day

Denosyl 225 MG once a day 1 hour before breakfast

Tramadol 50 MG ½ Tab 2X a day

She was terrible last night, she peed on herself 2 times and was up all night panting in pain even with the pain meds.

Today she perked up. She was able to jump up on the couch. She did not use the ramp we borrowed for her to get up on the couch and bed. She is very bloated from the fluid and her huge liver. She did eat dinner tonight, but not breakfast.

Right now as I write this she is panting in pain again. This is very hard to take.
Do you really think that her liver can repair itself? The vet said it is HUGE in the xray.

Thanks for the advice and info.
Roxy's mom,
Maria

yes the liver can repair itself - you cannot use sam-e as your dog is on tramadol and tramadol and sam-e cannot be used together and sam-e is used in helping support the liver but you can use milk thistle and i highly recommend that. Also juice zucchini and celery together (organic) and poor on her food and put pulp on top of food as well. Zucchini cleanses the liver and celery cleanses the urinary tract. My friend did this when her bull mastiff had high liver values after eating a toxic plant and the numbers went down drastically.

info on mixing tramadol and sam-e

Tramadol

please join the liver shunt group as i learned a ton when my dd was diagnosed with mvd so i am very familiar and these ladies know alot about liver and are amazing.

Sadly your vet should have had your dog on milk thistle, zucchini juicing the whole time on pheno if he knew it affected the liver and sam-e before the tramadol so he could have had on denomarin which is milk thistle and sam-e it is safe and would have helped not to be in this position. Now with the tramadol you need to give pain relief so ditch the sam-e until the pain is subsided then when stopping tramadol give sam-e but i do think you can turn this around.

Also feed dr dodds liver cleansing diet as well as this will help to ease the liver and easier to digest this food as well - we personally see her and she is a amazing - if you need to email her at hemopet@hotmail.com let her know that debbie and dee dee referred you and have her review all the blood work and advise you as well --I trust her completely and she is there day or night to help you - truly an amazing woman. She has studied blood work for 42 years and knows her stuff

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Beachitmom

Thanks Patti for the upbeat story!

Thanks for all of the well wishes. Yes, this is a crazy time and all of the support is much appreciated! The sleepless nights are also starting to get to me.

Ladysmom, I really have done everything for my little girl that I could have possibly done to help her.

Yes, when she started having the seizures she had the bile acid tests pre and post eating. She had an ultrsound they couldn't see a def. shunt- they thought MVD.

Why did my vet put her on pheno? I have no clue. I just listened to him and followed his instructions, because he is the vet. It helped her, but we had to keep ajusting the dose because she would have cluster seizures again. She has continued to have seizures her whole life until recently.

Yes, she has had blood work done at least 2X a year. The levels are always crazy -again because of the meds.
The levels he just took- I have to call for ther exact numbers- were not that high he said. But, the liver is so huge it is pushing on her organs.

I will call him and ask what he thinks about the diet change from Hills L/D to this diet your are talking about. She is so sick right now, I don't know if it's a good idea to introduce the runs with the diet change.

I will also ask about the milk thistle.

I did read the article but, as far as REDUCING her pheno barb. I don't know how we could do that when she is finally seizure free. That would just bring her levels down and she would start up again.

Thanks for all of your input. I will check into Redbank.

Roxy's mom,
Maria

i know she is feeling better right now but please consult jean dodds and have her review all blood work as sometimes meds mask the situation and getting that liver rejuvenated is very important. What were pre and post bile acid tests way back? was it below 100 on post if so most likely mvd. I am just bummed that the vet knowing the pheno affects liver and knowing a little liver issue why did he not support the liver with milk thistle and sam-e ughhhh

Make sure nothing in her diet has rosemary in it as well as dogs that have seizures rosemary can trigger it

[dwerten]

Red Bank Veterinary Hospital

this is the internest you want to see as my friend goes to her and her dog has 25% use of kidneys and had liver shunt surgery and been doing great. She trusts her completely. She is by referral only so if you want a referral pm me and my friend will call in the referral for you as she only works by referral of another patient i believe. My friend has gone to her for years and i can put you in touch with my friend as her yorkie has the liver issues and her standard poodle has epilepsy and on pheno so she is very knowledgeable and home cooks for hers as well.

I still think you need to communicate with dr jean dodds as well

[Beachitmom]

Debbie and Dee-Dee,

What great info.
I just put a call in to my vet. when he calls back I will have my computer in front of me and tell him about what you and Ladysmom have written here.

You really think her liver can go back to normal?
Can it shrink back to normal size? You said yes, but it was so big on the xray. I am beating myself up about this whole thing, because I always called her the worlds fattest Yorkie with her big tummy.

I don't want to have false hope, that's the whole thing. This is very stressful for everyone involved. Someone has to be home with her now 24/7. We have two college age boys, a 12 year old and I am a teacher, so I am off for the summer, so someone is usually home with her.

I'll post again after I talk with the vet today or monday when I bring her in.
Thanks again!

Roxy's mom,
Maria

[Ladymom]

Not only is Tramadol not indicated in conjunction with Denosyl, it is also metabolized through the liver so it may not be appropriate for Roxy.

Again, I would urge you to schedule an appointment with Red Bank. I gave you the link a couple of days ago and I see Deb just posted it again.

Our regular vets are like our primary care doctors. They can handle most normal issues, but when our pets have multiple health issues like your Roxy, a referral to a specialist is necessary. I am extremely concerned about the medications your vet is prescribing as they may be further damaging Roxy's liver. You need a specialist to sort all this out and most importantly, find out if a shunt is the underlying cause of her seizures.

Have you thought about switching to the liver cleansing diet I posted a link to the other day? You must lighten the load on Roxy's liver if it has any hope of it repairing itself.

[Beachitmom]

I checked the website and Redbank has an office 10 minutes from my house in Linwood.
I actually took her there when it was only an emergency hospital. I took her there in the middle of the night when I got Roxy and she had her
1st seizure.
I read all about the diet, but as I said before, I am worried about the runs she may get with a diet change.
She has been on L/D her entire life.
I am looking into the milk thistle and zuc. and cel.
I am VERY overwhelmed with info right now. I don't know what to do 1st.
Thank you for all of the help.
I would have never known about all of the different things available.
Keep Roxy in your prayers,
Roxy's mom,
Maria

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Beachitmom

I checked the website and Redbank has an office 10 minutes from my house in Linwood.
I actually took her there when it was only an emergency hospital. I took her there in the middle of the night when I got Roxy and she had her
1st seizure.
I read all about the diet, but as I said before, I am worried about the runs she may get with a diet change.
She has been on L/D her entire life.
I am looking into the milk thistle and zuc. and cel.
I am VERY overwhelmed with info right now. I don't know what to do 1st.
Thank you for all of the help.
I would have never known about all of the different things available.
Keep Roxy in your prayers,
Roxy's mom,
Maria

I know you are overwhelmed.

That's why I think it will really help if you take Roxy to Red Bank. There just isn't anyway you can sort all this out on your own.

I'm sure you feel loyal to your vet. It's hard when you have a pet whose medical issues go beyond their expertise. I have been very fortunate to have wonderful vets who take care of Lady on a regular basis, but who have referred me to specialists over the years.

Please know that there is hope. You just have to look beyond your regular vet at this point.

[kjc]

Is she on Lactulose? This binds ammonia in the gut to lighten the load on the liver, and can control seizures resulting from high ammonia levels.

I would do this immediately...

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Not only is Tramadol not indicated in conjunction with Denosyl, it is also metabolized through the liver so it may not be appropriate for Roxy.

Again, I would urge you to schedule an appointment with Red Bank. I gave you the link a couple of days ago and I see Deb just posted it again.

Our regular vets are like our primary care doctors. They can handle most normal issues, but when our pets have multiple health issues like your Roxy, a referral to a specialist is necessary. I am extremely concerned about the medications your vet is prescribing as they may be further damaging Roxy's liver. You need a specialist to sort all this out and most importantly, find out if a shunt is the underlying cause of her seizures.

Have you thought about switching to the liver cleansing diet I posted a link to the other day? You must lighten the load on Roxy's liver if it has any hope of it repairing itself.

i posted the internest dr green at red bank link as she is the best there as my friend goes to her for her kidney and liver shunt survivor so i would see her only as my friend is very picky and knows her stuff and loves dr green but she will only take you by referral so i will give you my friends name if you pm me and she will put a call in as well. You really need to see this internest and i beleive your dog will be ok

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Beachitmom

I checked the website and Redbank has an office 10 minutes from my house in Linwood.
I actually took her there when it was only an emergency hospital. I took her there in the middle of the night when I got Roxy and she had her
1st seizure.
I read all about the diet, but as I said before, I am worried about the runs she may get with a diet change.
She has been on L/D her entire life.
I am looking into the milk thistle and zuc. and cel.
I am VERY overwhelmed with info right now. I don't know what to do 1st.
Thank you for all of the help.
I would have never known about all of the different things available.
Keep Roxy in your prayers,
Roxy's mom,
Maria

Please make an appt with dr greene at red bank she is amazing please she will be able to help you

[dwerten]

this is the link to dr green

Red Bank Veterinary Hospital

[TLC]

Any updates on poor Roxy girl