Michele.. i am just seeing this.. i am so sorry lacy is having to go through all this!! :( and you too! :( poor thing!!
i just have to tell you (i'm sure you have heard it OVER & OVER..) BUT, Susan Davis is absolutely amazing!! She has REALLY helped Lauren and Jodie BOTH, SO SO MUCH!! (among many others) ;)
so, i am glad you are able to speak with her!! i will check back and see how the appt. went!! :)

have you looked into the honest kitchen for lacy? that is what lauren and jodie feed their girls (who have pancreas issues) and they are doing SO well on it.. :thumbup: i know she will do what is BEST for you, as an individual.. which is SO SO GREAT.. she is AMAZING!! and i just KNOW she will help you guys out a ton!! (even if it's just to give you piece of mind, that what you are doing/feeding is right for lacy!) :) but, anyway.. just wanted to throw that out there, about the honest kitchen, in case you haven't looked into it! (which i'm SURE you have:cool:) :D

xoxo. praying for Lacy!! can't wait to hear what Susan Davis has to say!! :heart to

Michele - I haven't read all the way through your thread yet, but I have consulted with Susan Davis and she is fabulous. I also had a in-person consult back in November when we were in San Diego. She is fabulous and really knows her stuff. She also has great supplements she recommends.

Sissy was diagnosed with very early PLE because of low Cobalamine, high TLI and high Folate levels. She has been on weekly B12 shots since then along with a tweaked diet and several supplements, BioLiv being among them. Susan suggests that any dog showing a compromised immune system of any kind also has an underlying liver issues - even if bloodwork is normal. She is also on the AskAriel probiotic and Vitamineral Green. She gets re-tested this Friday, so we'll see how she is doing. BTW - she had NO symptoms.....

Kathy - I can answer your question about Susan recommending commercial dog food and the answer is yes, when it is appropriate. Cyndi (IzzyPrincess) consulted with her following Izzy's severe bout with pancreatitis and not only did she insist on Dr. Gordon being part of their conversation because of Izzy's very high Lipase and Amalase levels, but they both recommended Izzy stay on the Hills W/D and I/D in combination for at least 6 months.

I only had the consult with Susan, Cyndi (Izzy Princess) had the joint consult.

Finally finished reading the entire thread!!! One thing I loved about Susan is she will tell you each dog in an individual and what works for one may not work for another. She actually scolded a few of us YTers for sharing information before consulting!!!!!

With Sissy, I really wanted to keep her on as much of the freeze-dried raw as possible. So what we did was put her on Embark (she is off all chicken products) for one meal, and Preference mixed with cooked white fish and slamong for her other meal. She will be on the probiotic and Vitamineral Green forever!!! We also use THK Sparkle supplement, which is all herbs that support liver function as well as being great for skin and coat!!!! She was on Lypozyme for a full bottle and on BioLiv as well.

Susan actually diagnosed Sissy with an intestinal issue before we got our Spec CPL results back indicating early stage PLE. I am anxious to have her blood work redone to see where we are, as both Susan and our vet our optomistic that her levels will normalize.

Good luck with your consult. I'm quite certain you will be very pleased with both Dr. Gordon and Susan. Please let us know how it goes and feel free to call me anytime!!!!!

thanks. Yes, I've heard great things about her and am really looking forward to the consult and hearing what they have to offer. I want to do a homecooked diet for Lacy, but I do want to find something I could easily use in case we need to travel and don't have a fridge or microwave (which is rare but a backup is always good).


Thanks. I got her records faxed off today and our consult is saturday morning. So I will let you all know how it goes

I've been following your thread but haven't posted. I'm glad Lacy's problem can be controlled with diet. I think you're doing the right thing consulting a nutritionist.
I was wondering if you have had a blood panel done on Rylie just to see what his looks like? I know he's not having any problems but maybe to be on the safe side since they were on the same diet. Just a thought.
I've been accused of being over worried.
Keep you and Lacy in my thoughts.

Jamie - I don't think you're crazy at all!!! I did request a full panel on Angel at her 2 year check-up to be certain she doesn't have what Sissy does, especially since Sissy had no symptoms!!!

I did do a full blood chemistry panel on Rylie and all was normal, but of course Lacy's blood chemistry panel was normal too. I didn't do a bile acid test on him since he hasn't been sick at all. I'm kindof afraid to do one on him now...which i know is wrong. He seems to be fine though. I'm hoping we'll have a little time just to discuss his diet though. I'm not 100% sure I want to keep him on the raw...might decide to homecook for him too..and maybe he could benefit from a low fat diet too since he's kindof chunky LOL

I can't say enough good things about susan davis. I consulted her about Tumi's diet since she was itching all the time. It's not as severe but I wanted to make her feel better. She was on NV raw and so were my other girls. The other 2 didn't have any issues at all. So she designed Salmon and Sweet Potatos diet for Tumi and I also asked if it was okay for the other girls too. And also she wanted me to do either Rabbit or Venison for raw if I want to rotate the girls diet. All my girls are on the same diet ever since..they get Primal Raw Venison in the morning and the homecook food at night. After a week, Tumi stopped itching and it's been that way ever since. I usually cook a big batch of food and the seperate them in small containers and freeze them. I only cook maybe 2x a month or so and just freeze them. So I don't mind it at all. Pluse they each only get like an ounce each of homecook stuff anyway.lol

Just checking in on Lacy and wanted to say Thank you for the email on PETZLIFE. I think it is awesome you spoke with the owner.:)

HMM. My Yorkie was sick during the holidays----throwing up bile and very loose stools. She has been to my vet and also to Tufts University. Her bile acid numbers are in the 500's. Normal, I am told, is 7 or under! She has had numerous blood tests to confirm the high numbers simply because one test showed her BA number was fine. She has had an ultrasound done by very highly qualified personel at Tufts. No signs of a liver shunt problem. She will go back to Tufts this week for a scintigraphy test where she will be injected with a radio active dye to once and for all determine what is wrong.

But, please note. Since her sick bout in December she has been on Metronidazole...now once a day. She is as perky as ever and does not appear sick. In other words, there are no outward clinical signs that ANYTHING is wrong with her. Yet, apparently there is as the Acid Bile numbers are ridiculously elevated! I will keep everyone posted to my little Emma's progress. She will be kept over night at the Tufts University Foster Hospital for Small Animals to be sure all the radio active dye is flushed from her system. I am a bit worried about this procedure but I know people on this forum have had good results with it. Once we know exactly what is wrong, we can sir with the doctors and consider our options.

Maybe a bile acid test for your baby would be advisable....just in case. But I am so happy that your girl is feeling fine as mine is.

DAB

Michelle, Was curious about an update & wondered how the consult went.

Just an FYI, Lacy did have a bile acids test. That's what started the whole thing!

I'm sorry your girl is going through all that. Ultrasounds are not reliable for detecting liver shunts. Shunts, especially those outside the liver, are easily missed. It is harder to detect them with an ultrasound in small dogs, too.

Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Scintigraphy is much more accurate. Hopefully that will give you some answers.

Me, too. Wasn't it scheduled for yesterday?

I too am curious how the consult went...hope Lacy is still doing well.

sorry I haven't updated sooner. My computer kindof crashed Friday night - it will turn on and start loading up and then just freeze and won't go any further :( I've been getting on YT with my iphone but it takes a lot longer to type so I didn't want to type a long response. I had to come up to school today to print some things off so I thought I'd update now.

I think the consult went great! I really liked Dr. Gordon and Susan Davis. They really seemed to know what they were talking about. Dr. Gordon said Hepatic Lipidosis is very uncommon in dogs, but it's seen in the Yorkshire Terrier most commonly. He felt like her intestinal disease was probably linked to her liver problems, and he said most likely it was something she was predisposed too..something genetic with her metabolism.

I talked to Susan Davis for about an hour. She said she loves the NV raw medallions but doesn't think it is good to feed only that. She thinks they are too rich (high protein/high fat and lots of organ meat) for it to be the whole diet. She didn't seem to think having an all high-protein diet was the way to go and said she's seen too many dogs get sick and did a lot of blood testing on her own dog when changing foods. She recommended a combination of raw and homecooking, and the homecooked diet she provided for us was a moderate protein/low fat diet. I told her I was always so pro-feeding only raw but I trusted her and thought she probably knows what's she's talking about.

She gave us a fish-based diet (using whitefish and salmon) with potato and some veggies. We'll also use fish oil and some olive oil every day. Lacy will also get a vit. B complex supplement and will use three other supplements for now, but I'm hoping eventually we won't have to use those and that she'll be fine on the new diet. She will eat only this homecooked diet for a month, and then if she is doing well we can decrease to feeding 1/2 the homecooked and add 1.5 raw medallions back in. I'll feed her three meals a day and she'd get 1/2 medallion and some homecooked at each meal.

Rylie will also be doing half homecooked and half raw. He's got a much slower metabolism and is a little chunky so he gets about 1/3 of the recipe she gave me and one raw medallion a day. And he'll get some fish oil and olive oil too.

I cooked enough food to last me 16 days for both of them last night. Eventually when Lacy can have some raw too it will last more like 25 days. They seem to like the food...it's just so much bulkier than the raw. So hopefully they will do well on this. I would definitely recommend Susan Davis to anyone looking for a nutrition consult!

I just e-mailed the specialist Lacy saw at A&M to do a little followup too. I got an additional test result in Friday. I submitted a fecal sample to the GI lab for a PCR, and she did test positive for two bacteria (Campylobacter upsaliensis and enterotoxigenic Clostridium perfringens). I think both have been found in healthy dogs but have also been associated with diarrhea in some. I also asked her if we needed to Vit. B injections as well and when we'll need to retest her bloodwork.

she's been doing great though. I took her stitches out friday and gave her a bath.

Michele - I'm glad the consult went well. I knew you would like both Dr. Gordon and Susan. Hope the diet works well for Lacy and you see results immediately. The supplements help a lot as well.

I'm so glad your consult went well! Sounds like you are on the right track to a healthier Lacy and a slimmer Rylie!

Did you know that Clostridium perfringens is thought to be one of the main causes of HGE? And that Yorkies are predisposed to HGE? Interesting, huh?

Merck Veterinary Manual

I didn't know that. Well hopefully the antibiotics will kill it off. I do own that book though :)

So gald to hear the consult went well....looks like Lacy is on the road to recovery. We love having a healthy Lacy!! And Rylie!!!

Hi Michele,
I am so glad you had a great session with susan! That's what I was told about raw feeding and that it could be too rich for our pups. I am doing half raw and half homecook also. the girls get Primal raw in the morning and homecook Salmon with sweet potatos at night. We use olive oil and also Amazing Omega. I am so happy with the results so far!

Thanks. She told me she thought it was best to feed some raw and some homecooking at each meal. Did she tell you that? She compared it a person sitting down and eating a 10oz steak at one meal instead of spreading it out. I guess for better digestion

Sounds promising...hope the diet works and takes care of all her problems, and make Riley healthier as well.
I have always wondered about the high protein diets for Yorkies...I guess as with us humans...moderation is the key. Too much of a good thing is not so good after all. Always learning something new on YT, thanks Michele for sharing your experience with the rest of us.

May have a problem, what was Lacy's problems
 

Hi. I'm Sandy, I'm Chance's Mom. Chance is a 2 year old yorkie. She hasn't been feeling well. She has had sort of orange pee, not playing with her toys, not following me around like she used to, not barking and that is her flavorite thing to do. I took her to the vet, they did blood work and said her liver enzymes were some high, and to bring her back in 2 months to check it again. I don't want to wait that long, I believe the earlier they find something the better to treat it. She didn't have a kidney infection, but when she pees in the pee is little brown flakes like cinnamon in her urine. Which our vet said it could be bladder stones forming, but she didn't say anything about treatment. Please I need some info. I have found so much on the internet, it sounds like kidney or liver poblems. Chance is my baby.

Were the liver enzymes all that was abnormal? You need to have your vet do a bile acid test and test the crystals to see if they are ammonia crystals.

Help for Chance
 

Liver enzymes was all she said. What is bile acid test? What will they do to Chance for that? I took her pee pads in with the orange pee and cinnamon like flakes the vet said nothing about ammonia crystals. In Nov. Chance threw up worms. The vet tech said it was tapeworms, but from the books I read it sounded like whipworms, or threadworms. Somethings I read some problems with orange pee can be from worms. I'm really worried about liver and kidney problems how treatable are they.

For a bile acid test you'll need a paired sample around a meal. Some vets still want you to fast your dog 12 hours. What you'll do is take your dog to the vet in the morning for the first blood draw. This will be the premeal sample. This should be no higher than 10. You then feed and take the postmeal blood draw two hours later. This should be no higher than 25. Your vet will send the two blood samples off for them to be bile acid tested and you'll get the results within a few days. The crystals also need to be tested. Liver shunt and hepatic microvascular dysplasia are very common in yorkies. That's not what my dog had but most yorkies with elevated bile acids have one or the other. There are other liver diseases too

We had a little Maltese on another forum with liver disease and orange urine. The vet said it was from the high bilirubin that goes along with liver disease (jaundice).

Chance needs to have a bile acids test. Here is a link explaining it. It is a very simple and inexpensive test.

PSVA and MVD Research Summary