Bile Acid Test- vet want to now do biopsy. I am so worried

[Ellie May]

High protein can cause neurologic symptoms and shouldn't be given to liver compromised dogs. One bite a day may not hurt but I wouldn't try it. The dog without the liver issue can still have it...

I think all Yorkies should have a bile acid test, so I would do the bile acid test on the one that hasn't had it yet but I wouldn't limit her protein til then and I would not supplement her. You don't know if there is a problem yet and there probably isn't.

Instead of googling Ursodiol, google Ursodiol bile acids. This med is used for more than one thing... I wouldn't hesitate to give it. She is under the supervision of a vet.

Does this help?

Have you looked into the Protein C test?

[Ellie May]

Are you having trouble finding a canned food she can have or do you just like the Wellness?

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

High protein can cause neurologic symptoms and shouldn't be given to liver compromised dogs. One bite a day may not hurt but I wouldn't try it. The dog without the liver issue can still have it...

I think all Yorkies should have a bile acid test, so I would do the bile acid test on the one that hasn't had it yet but I wouldn't limit her protein til then and I would not supplement her. You don't know if there is a problem yet and there probably isn't.

Instead of googling Ursodiol, google Ursodiol bile acids. This med is used for more than one thing... I wouldn't hesitate to give it. She is under the supervision of a vet.

Does this help?

Have you looked into the Protein C test?

It just makes me question that's all -(giving her the Ursodiol) after all the vet kept prescribing all of these allergy meds to my other dog Sadie. She kept telling her to give her the claritin for her itchy skin. At the same time we were trying to figure out what was wrong with Sadie? She was losing so much protein and on Benezaperil. BUT after seeing the specialist that was when we realized the CLaritin was what was making her bp sky high (265) I have no idea why are reg vet didn't put it together when we were testing Sadies bp. Instead she prescribed Amlodipine for her bp- Sadie ended up fainting she was on so many meds. Once we discontinued the Claritin sadie's bp went down to 130 in only 2 wks. so i guess now when the vet prescribes a med I just am cautious that's all.
Also high blood pressure is a sign of protein losing diseases such as Glomelur disease so maybe it was easily missed too though. Not sure what to think though. You would think that the vet would have known the Claritin was increasing her bp.

I try to not talk about Sadie though on this thread bc I don't want to confuse you with what dog we are referring too :-)

but yeah- I told my husband i want sadie checked out too. He says no - I have to somehow convince him that YES i want her tested. I told him Samie has no symptoms. He is as mind boggled as i am with this all. Because had Sadie not knocked samie on her butt and caused her to have a ct fainting episode... we would have never had the blood work and never known of her bat coming back with issues. That's why i told him - SEE- we do need to have Sadie tested too bc yes- we wouldn't have ever known to check samie out and have a bat done on her.

[sadiesamie]

also as far as treats- (becasue my girls do look for me to give them something) i picked up some sweet potato fry like things. they are 6% protein, all natural. I have to soak them in water to soften them. otherwise they swallow it whole and i hate that. I can't find the list of treats they can have anywhere that someone posted. is it cottage cheese and cranberries that they can have? can't remember..

[Yorkieluv]

Actigall is a relatively safe med to give to liver compromised dogs...Who prescribed it? The specialist or your regular vet?
Have you joined the liver shunt/mvd group??Some of the members/moderators there may be able to answer some more questions yet.

[sadiesamie]

I am also researching the Flovent that Samie is on too. This is an inhaled steroid that I also think may be affecting her liver.

For right now are plan is:

* Another bat done in 30 days.
* Stop the canned food completely.
* Instead of giving her the denamarin 4 hours after she eats I am getting up to give it to her at 4am. (then going back to sleep for 2 hours :-) LOL
Only treats she will have is the sweet potato in super small amounts.
* I also have the Eicosaderm (Omega 3 supplement) that I am giving both of them.


Her schedule for meds will be:
Denamarin- 4AM (Until I order the Hepatosupport)
Soloxine- 7AM

Soloxine-7 PM
Potassium Citrate Granules in her food-7PM
Flovent-7PM

And a mistake on my part...the vet "did" prescribe the Ursodiol - I thought my husband asked her about it and then she said ok we can try it.
so with that in mind- starting tomorrow night we will give her the Ursodiol only bc a side effect is diarhea and also mainly bc introducing a new med I want to be home with her all day and all night long (I guess you can say I'm over protective) :-) The pharmacist said to give it to her just every 24 hrs. I wish I would have been told when to give it to her- Like not with other meds...OR Yes it's ok to give with other meds. Came with no instruction sheet or ingredients...or side effects info- just on the bottle is says give 1 cc every 24 hrs and that it is beef flavored (i bet she loves it!) :-)

THEN..... After her recheck in 30 days - if no improvement... then it's off to the specialist we go. :-)

I know no one likes when asked this kind of advice- but when do you think it's a good time to give her the Ursodiol?
That would help me bc I just don't like making the decision for that on my own. Mostly bc knowing that some of you have dealt with personally and maybe i just need someone to tell what time to give it to her.

And then i promise.... I will stop wracking my brain and relax for a month :-) and see what happens.

[Yorkieluv]

Is she the one that gets the calcium oxalate stones?? If so, then it is very important that you add equal parts water to her food at each feeding...If not, it's very possible that the stones will come back, especially since you are cutting out the wet food. I can't tell you how important it is to feed high moisture diet.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

Actigall is a relatively safe med to give to liver compromised dogs...Who prescribed it? The specialist or your regular vet?
Have you joined the liver shunt/mvd group??Some of the members/moderators there may be able to answer some more questions yet.

Okay good I really appreciate you telling me that.

The reg vet prescribed it for her. We haven't seen the specialist yet. I really would love to visit/talk with him though. I am in the process of seeing if the spec will do a visit with just my husband and i -minus SAmie.

They are closed tomorrow so i will not know until next week sometime. Samie does NOT do well at vet visits- we have to be in and out.

She gets too excited and she turns blue. (her tongue turns purple) even a 10 min visit and the vet tells me that they sometimes have to wave oxygen in her face. they are super quick with us. I would rather not get samie all stressed out if we absolutely do not have to.

My husband said when he talked to them this week (he called there to see if we would need a referral and asked them some questions) He did say that the staff there told him that he definitely would want to do xrays so if she hadn't done them then he would want to. if that's the case then I will take her to the normal vet- do the xrays (since they are familar with her and super quick with us) and then take all of that to him.

If Samie's values were higher than they are now then we would be going there- no questions asked. But since they are not - Then I want to make some modifications (diet) and then retest in 30 days.


I pretty much just want to run things past him since he was so helpful with us with Sadie. Our reg vet hasn't suggested xrays.. not sure why. I learned of the xray thing here on YT.
She was ready to lightly sedate samie to keep her calm she said and go in with a small needle and get a tiny amount of tissue. (we asked if we needed to see the specialist when she suggested this, and she said not that someone comes there and does it) but like i said- she is test happy and before i let her start running all kinds of tests i will see the specialist first. and do what he says.

Yes- I did join the yahoo. and i created a login, email address and a password but I couldn't access the link after they asked me to tell them why i wanted to join. they emailed me something to verify- that it was indeed me that had requested access to the site. And i did everything- but could not access it for whatever reason. But yes i am very intersted in checking that out.

I tried doing a search, but could not find any liver group links. If someone has the link would you mind please sending it to me.

I would appreciate that bc- yes i would really like to get on there and do some research.

I also want to introduce myself to you wonderful people-
My name is Renee. :-)

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

Is she the one that gets the calcium oxalate stones?? If so, then it is very important that you add equal parts water to her food at each feeding...If not, it's very possible that the stones will come back, especially since you are cutting out the wet food. I can't tell you how important it is to feed high moisture diet.

yes. I wet their dry food. WHat i do is rotate 2 tupperware containers. one for morning and one for evening. i add the water and then refrigerate. then i microwave for 30 secs to warm it for them just a tad. OMG. If i could post a video on here OMG!! :-) NEVER in 10 yrs have my dogs got this excited to eat!!!! they are so funny.

They eat fast though. and in the morning they bark like mad when it's feeding time. I am still cutting back on Samies food bc we are getting her to lose weight. she has lost almost 1 lb in the past 2 mos. The wellness weight management food is what they are on and this has really helped her lose.

It's been the only thing that has worked to accomplish that with her. Even with feeding her the canned food. Our vet said that feeding canned is fattening and she even at some point is I think even against it. bad for their teeth...etc.. she would say. ????

well they loved it but for now- no more of it. I will still give sadie a little of it when samie isn't around. But i am really wanting to feed natural treats to them. just can't remember what you said is good? :-)


also i am afraid that the vet is going to call and tell us that we need to put samie on a pres food. so we will be having to change foods again. that's when i might have to look into homecooking for my girls. I don't know about that though... but the thought of pres food.... YUK!

I don't know though- it could be bc the food is wet that they go so crazy...or the food in general maybe has fillers in it and they are not staying full long enough and they are starving. They do act like i haven't fed them in forever the way they scarf it down. I still have to hand feed samie though. she remembers the fainting incident very well though. That took place about 5 wks ago when sadie tried to eat her food- that was the 2nd day of wetting the food-they ended up getting in a fight over it and samie fainted. :-(
That was pretty much why i started feeding the canned wellness to them. I took your advice last time about wetting their food and i am so glad that i did. plus the good protein in the wellness canned also.
:-)

[sadiesamie]

I am signing off for a little while. my husband made me dinner and i have been tied to the computer for the past 4 nights LOL

I miss my doggies! I'm going to go and love on them. :-) i will check back for a moment to read any responses left for me before I turn in for the night. I would love to get 8 hrs sleep tonight. God knows i could use it.

if you have a moment would you mind telling me what kinds of goodies i can feed as snacks. I will make a trip to the grocery store on my lunch hour tomorrow.

:-)

plus my little fingers hurt- (Imagine that)

I am working though -on the shorter responses. I know that the past ones have been long. and for that i am sorry. but I wanted to get it all out there. thanks to all of you again who have been so helpful.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Are you having trouble finding a canned food she can have or do you just like the Wellness?

yes having trouble finding a canned food she can have. Snacks too. i was told that unfortunately treats are super high in protein. And they loved the wellness wellbites!!! OMG did they love those. It's a wonder I am not missing any fingers LOL!! but i stopped everything and my girls are super smart and they know when i come home from work i give them a treat. and when i leave for work in the morning i give then a treat also. That's all. I dont' treat too too often. but when i leave in the morning- they give me that look like- "aren't you forgetting something???????? hello??? what the heck. And i hate that. :-(

i am open to suggestions big time! :-)

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

Is she the one that gets the calcium oxalate stones?? If so, then it is very important that you add equal parts water to her food at each feeding...If not, it's very possible that the stones will come back, especially since you are cutting out the wet food. I can't tell you how important it is to feed high moisture diet.

also she never had stones- only crystals. her ph has been holding at 8.0 (which i thought was kinda high) but thank God no more crystals!

[sadiesamie]

i tried for a few minutes the yahoo liver group and couldn't find the link. i did see a rescue yorkie haven. Oh how sad.... :-(

[Ellie May]

Wellness Weight Management is only 19% protein dry matter. It isn't the worst food for liver problems... It does have chicken in it which may not be great but at least it doesn't have red meat. If you don't want to go with a pres. diet, don't. It is your choice. The L/D canned isn't the worst food in the world though. For kibble, the Royal Canin Hepatic LS 14 is better than the L/D. My Yorkie got terribly itchy from this food though.

Wysong makes a canned SENIOR food that is lower protein.
For snacks you can give apple bits (peeled), watermelon, white potato (peeled and cooked), sweet potato (peeled and cooked), zuccini, carrot, green beans. I prefer to cook the carrot but you could also pulverize it.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Wellness Weight Management is only 19% protein dry matter. It isn't the worst food for liver problems... It does have chicken in it which may not be great but at least it doesn't have red meat. If you don't want to go with a pres. diet, don't. It is your choice. The L/D canned isn't the worst food in the world though. For kibble, the Royal Canin Hepatic LS 14 is better than the L/D. My Yorkie got terribly itchy from this food though.

Wysong makes a canned SENIOR food that is lower protein.
For snacks you can give apple bits (peeled), watermelon, white potato (peeled and cooked), sweet potato (peeled and cooked), zuccini, carrot, green beans. I prefer to cook the carrot but you could also pulverize it.

what portions? like how much apple, potato or watermelon is too much? do you cook the green beans or feed them raw. would like a 1/4 inch piece of green bean be normal size to give as a treat?