Bile Acid Test- vet want to now do biopsy. I am so worried

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

How are things going?

The Vetri is a replacement for Denosyl but I would try the Denosyl first (which you are in the Denamarin).

How much does Samie weigh?

samie weighs 6.5 lbs maybe a tad less. she still needs to lose another 1 lb

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

Innova senior is around 20% protein on a dry matter basis. Turkey is not exactly recommended for liver compromised dogs because of the tryptophan content, but I would say it's much better than venison, beef, or lamb.

Hepatosupport can be given with meals and does not need to be given on an empty stomach...This takes the place of the "marin" portion of the Denamarin.

It contains Milk Thistle Extract (providing 80% of the active flavonoid Silymarin) 100 mg. Milk thistle helps protect the liver from further damage and also helps regenerate parts of the liver that already have been damaged.

Hepatosupport comes in either liquid form or capsule form. I would recommend capsule form...Open the capsule and dump the contents onto the food. If you buy from that website TLC recommended, the vet will tell you the amounts you need to give.
If you give Hepatosupport, then you need to discontinue the Denamarin, and give either Denosyl or Vetri-DMG instead to take place of the "den" portion. Vetri-DMG is supposed to do the same thing as Denosyl but does not need to be given on an empty stomach. It can be given with meals.

Denosyl, on the other hand, does need to be given on an empty stomach.
This is the reason why Denamarin needs to be given on an empty stomach. It contains denosyl...

i also have been getting the wet food to work. NO CANNED ANYMORE... i keep a ball of wet dog food in the same bowl with the WEllness that i still give only sadie a dab of it. this way samie doesn't think she is being left out :-) so we are giving the Denamarin with a tiny tiny bit of wet dog food

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

You are correct. The Hepatosupport and Vetri DO NOT have to be given on an empty stomach.

As for your vet, you have every right to research anything you want. Do not let her tell you otherwise. I don't want to imagine where I would be with Ellie now if her vet acted like that. Whenever liver testing comes up it is always my choice. She doesn't choose for her clients. I am very blessed to have found such a special vet though. I am sure there is one out there for you. If you aren't happy with yours then I would move on.

well with samie's ct issues it's not easy at the vet on her. wayyy too much excitement. Problem is i met a girl who works at the local emerg vet and she told me that we are going to the "best of the best" so that sticks with me. Apparently the emerg center deals with this vet all the time and they are very well known. It is a great place. I was given another vet my the girl that works at the emerg vet but the place she suggested if we want to leave where we are going now is really far from home. We are going to stay put for now. I see us getting her to the specialist anyway once we do this next bat. if things aren't getting better then we are going to see the specialist. He "isn't test happy" AND he believes in being "conservative"

I am debating making that phone call to ask about the dosage so we can make the switch. The Hepato support is supposed to be better than the Denamarin correct YorkieLuv? it works better than Denamarin? I am also trying to convince hubby as well. :-) This is his little baby girl. Mine too- but she favors him. Probably bc her mama is the one who has to mask her with Flovent every day and is always cleaning her eyes and trimming her nails. Which- while i am on the trimming nails here- For those of you that do not own a Dremel tool. WOW what a good investment! Grinding the nails is so much easier than cutting. And it paid for itself in only 2 mos. i used to take the girls to the vet for the anal gland cleaning and nail trims. once samie's trachea worsened i had to learn how to do this at home. It's so easy!

[Yorkieluv]

I'm not going to say that one product is better than another, but I will tell you that personally, I prefer to use Hepatosupport and Vetri-DMG OR Hepatosupport and Denosyl.

[sadiesamie]

I do plan on having a bat on my other dog Sadie. In the meantime, do you think its a good idea for them "both" to be on a liver supplement? could it hurt?

[Ellie May]

I would not put a dog on a liver supplement without doing a BAT first as long as they don't have neurological symptoms or I was pretty sure they had a shunt or MVD. I would wait. Denosyl also has the potential to bring down bile acids, so you wouldn't get a true reading (for the first time) if you put her on it.

Have you found a different food yet?
Really this Wellness is very bad for both of her problems...

[BLEU BOY BARBER]

Praying for you all!


Vicki

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I would not put a dog on a liver supplement without doing a BAT first as long as they don't have neurological symptoms or I was pretty sure they had a shunt or MVD. I would wait. Denosyl also has the potential to bring down bile acids, so you wouldn't get a true reading (for the first time) if you put her on it.

Have you found a different food yet?
Really this Wellness is very bad for both of her problems...

No I honestly thought the wellness was ok since the protein was 17%. I am open to ideas. And if i have to home cook i will do that too. I read where people home cook and freeze the food that they make a few times a month. I really want whats best for my girls. I just purchased a book on line yesterday. it's called "HOPE FOR HEALING LIVER DISEASE IN YOUR DOG" by Cyndi Smasal. I won't give the liver supplement to my other dog until she is tested. They are from two diff liters but same mama-different papa.
Don't know if this is hereditary or not. still haven't been able to access the yahoo liver group. will try again this w/end now that i am home all w/end.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

No I honestly thought the wellness was ok since the protein was 17%. I am open to ideas. And if i have to home cook i will do that too. I read where people home cook and freeze the food that they make a few times a month. I really want whats best for my girls. I just purchased a book on line yesterday. it's called "HOPE FOR HEALING LIVER DISEASE IN YOUR DOG" by Cyndi Smasal. I won't give the liver supplement to my other dog until she is tested. They are from two diff liters but same mama-different papa.
Don't know if this is hereditary or not. still haven't been able to access the yahoo liver group. will try again this w/end now that i am home all w/end.

17% may be fine for high bile acids but the ingredients aren't good for oxalate crystals. I would be nervous with it. Does this food have red meat in it?

[Yorkieluv]

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/

[Yorkieluv]

If you still can't do it, then send an email to this address:
Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support-owner@yahoogroups.com

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

17% may be fine for high bile acids but the ingredients aren't good for oxalate crystals. I would be nervous with it. Does this food have red meat in it?

no red meat- deboned chicken is the first ingred. I am open to anything you would suggest. I have researched foods for a long time and with samie needing to also lose weight i went with this. i really don't know what to feed. the specialist told us low protein-but a good quality protein and low fat. but that was for Sadie the one with kidney issues. when we asked him if it would be best for both dogs to be on a low protein/ low fat he said yes. our reg vet said she was ok with the wellness as long as we keep samie on the potassium citrate granules. samie's ph is at 8.0 and i worry that that is too high. bc she could form a diff type of crystals i believe if her urine is too akaline. I think home cooking is going to be the best thing for my girls. i just don't know anything about it. just started researching. i am so unsure about what to do. everything happened so fast in the past few months. I have spent hours on end on line and yt researching anything i can possibly find.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/

Yorkieluv thanks so much for sending me the link. I am off to research land once again :-)

[Yorkieluv]

If she's the potassium citrate, that's supposed to help keep the stones at bay, but 8.0 is still off...

[Yorkieluv]

Your welcome
Hopefully, the link will work for you!!