"Speciesism: The Movie" -- Looks Like a MUST SEE for True Animal Lovers

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

This movie is soooooo much deeper than just the "betterment of animals". This is clearly stated, several different ways, in several different places, on the site. This idea of "speciesism", of human beings being no higher than any other animal on the planet, is old fodder. I personally do not equate humans with animals. I think we are caretakers of this planet and the animals that inhabit it. In my thinking, that is a responsibility to defend and protect all animal's welfare. Cruelty should not be tolerated, not because the animal has "rights", but because as intelligent, thinking, educated, responsible, compassionate humans, it is thrust upon us to protect any animal's welfare, because that is what distinguishes us from animals....the ability to know and appreciate right from wrong, and follow that path. Animals do not have that capacity.....a dog will savagely maul a baby, if the desire strikes them. No one should take pleasure or "understand" where the dog's intent was....it is an animal....period. Likewise, seeing inhumane treatment or cruelty forced on animals by humans, is inexcuasble and should not be tolerated. But that is not because the animal "has rights"....it is because the animal has no rights....it has no concept of "rights" and must be protected by humans, who are capable of knowing what is right and wrong. I make no assumptions about what this movie is trying to promote...it is clearly stated throughout the site, even giving instructions on how to nudge friends and family into thinking like this movement does....."The Movie brings viewers face-to-face with the leaders of this developing movement, and, for the first time ever on film, fully examines the purpose of what they are setting out to do." I do not follow the same train of thought these people do, and will not allow them to "enlighten" me to their way of thinking. I do not believe this thinking is correct or beneficial to humans or animals. I can be called names....closed minded, short sighted, whatever....I respect everyones RIGHT to believe what they chose to believe and hold in their hearts to be true. Animals are NOT humans, they are not equal to humans, and must be guarded and protected, because they can not do it for themselves. I am a vigilant proponet of animal welfare, not animal rights, and there is a huge difference.

So will a human.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I encourage eveyone that thinks this "specieism" idea is all "warm and fuzzy animal lovers haven", and that if you do not accept or agree with this train of thought and theory, then you are obviously NOT a "true animal lover".....investigate thoroughly the origins of this idea, the people behind the push of this belief system, Cass Sunstein and what he tried to get passed into law ...there are lots of books and excellent literature available for the curious minds out there....read the hard core material, not just the fluff and pitiful stories and pictures presented....read what this is actually all about, from their own view point.....only then, read opposition to what this insidious belief system is using, trying to effect social change. Knowledge is power....dont fall in line and follow blindly any group without getting a thorough knowledge base of what you are swallowing! That is how the masses get sucked into cults and find themselves involved in movements the individuals did not realize the full depth of the agenda being pushed. Just know what this is about....this has nothing to do with the pitiful look in a puppy's eyes.....that is just the hook that is used. This particular documentary is a softball presentation....I watched it so I can give my personal critique....very few will watch this film and NOT agree with what is being presented......but this does not begin to sell the whole theory of "speciecism". Just know what you are insidiously being spoon fed, just as we do with our political and religious beliefs we cling to.....informed, educated choices, without excuses or apologies.

I can't take anything away from your review since you went into it with a completely closed off mind, assumptions, and conclusions - and came out the same way. And how could've it been any different from that? You made up your mind before you even saw it. What a shame that we can't just have a nice discourse about it, instead you sound so angry, paranoid, and closed off. I don't see a discussion frame of mind at all, unfortunately, so I won't go there. Nonetheless, I'm glad you saw it as I think it's a positive move. I respect the fact that you viewed it.

I think we're all capable of having our own personal definition of what a "true animal lover is" and if it's different from yours, maybe just respect that difference instead of putting it down somehow. On one hand you're preaching we should all think for ourselves, and on the other you seem to be putting down those who elect to do just that . And just for the record, I don't believe a true animal lover has to be a vegan, vegetarian, or similar (before anyone goes making any assumptions).

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

This movie is soooooo much deeper than just the "betterment of animals". This is clearly stated, several different ways, in several different places, on the site. This idea of "speciesism", of human beings being no higher than any other animal on the planet, is old fodder. I personally do not equate humans with animals. I think we are caretakers of this planet and the animals that inhabit it. In my thinking, that is a responsibility to defend and protect all animal's welfare. Cruelty should not be tolerated, not because the animal has "rights", but because as intelligent, thinking, educated, responsible, compassionate humans, it is thrust upon us to protect any animal's welfare, because that is what distinguishes us from animals....the ability to know and appreciate right from wrong, and follow that path. Animals do not have that capacity.....a dog will savagely maul a baby, if the desire strikes them. No one should take pleasure or "understand" where the dog's intent was....it is an animal....period. Likewise, seeing inhumane treatment or cruelty forced on animals by humans, is inexcuasble and should not be tolerated. But that is not because the animal "has rights"....it is because the animal has no rights....it has no concept of "rights" and must be protected by humans, who are capable of knowing what is right and wrong. I make no assumptions about what this movie is trying to promote...it is clearly stated throughout the site, even giving instructions on how to nudge friends and family into thinking like this movement does....."The Movie brings viewers face-to-face with the leaders of this developing movement, and, for the first time ever on film, fully examines the purpose of what they are setting out to do." I do not follow the same train of thought these people do, and will not allow them to "enlighten" me to their way of thinking. I do not believe this thinking is correct or beneficial to humans or animals. I can be called names....closed minded, short sighted, whatever....I respect everyone's RIGHT to believe what they chose to believe and hold in their hearts to be true. Animals are NOT humans, they are not equal to humans, and must be guarded and protected, because they can not do it for themselves. I am a vigilant proponet of animal welfare, not animal rights, and there is a huge difference.

Well said, Judy. I, too, agree that humans are not animals that evolved from pond scum but inspired, spiritual beings who are so much more than just a functioning animal body that dies and goes back to nothingness without a purpose to life or hope of an eternity. I understand there are many who don't agree with that worldview and that is their perfect right but disagree mightily with anyone efforting to get me to equate the human being with any animal, fish, fowl or insect species, using the subject of cruelty to animals as a preface to their reasoning that humans and animals are equals. I don't know if this movie does that or not so I'd have to check it out further but it seems to be leaning that way from what I can tell so far from the information on the website.

We must all do a far better job policing the way all nations' animals and fowl are treated in feeding, clothing and providing leather for furniture, handbags, wallets, etc., for humans and other animals, and speaking up loudly, using the ballot box, etc., when we see lovely, noble animals treated horribly in their living conditions or handling or in how they die to provide us food, leather. Just as objectionable to me is how animals must die for for high-dollar sport using precision, war-like weaponry that requires little actual hunting skills and the animals dead bodies just dumped rather than being used for food or actual clothing or are stuffed to reside in someone's den as a kind of grisly symbol of some sort. I wonder how it is someone gets a high or a thrill from needlessly taking the life of a wild animal unless they are going to perish from starvation but understand many still do love to "hunt" exotic animals, deer and wild boar, though how they can enjoy that kind of hobby, I will never know. The only way to change cruelty to animals is through reasoning with others, boycotting, the ballot box and using all forms of media, as far as I can tell.

Trying to elevate an animal to that of the human being as to its purpose and function in this life or rights is hard for me to get my mind around but I take great exception to animal cruelty in any form. It's no doubt the way we sit back and allowed our cattle, pigs and fowl to be kept in one small space or cage for its entire life, handled and slaughtered sometimes inhumanely, so we can have a wonderful, cheaper meal or carry a fashionable bag, eyeglass case or expensive briefcase is absolutely immoral to my mind and I'm always glad to see any move to try to change that. Then poor creatures we keep in zoos and sea tanks all of their lives - rather than letting them live free - is just awful to me. And those who hurt or kill animals just for the "joy" of it - I'll never get that mentality.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

So will a human.

No doubt, huh?!!! Times a million!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

So will a human.

And unless the human's mind is sick - he's a sociopath, he knows better. The animal doesn't. The lion or bull or whale just go on as if nothing much happened unless they got a good meal out of it. He'll never ever feel remorse.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

And unless the human's mind is sick - he's a sociopath, he knows better. The animal doesn't. The lion or bull or whale just go on as if nothing much happened unless they got a good meal out of it. He'll never ever feel remorse.

The animal is immediately executed. The human lives off of us for the rest of his days or until he is finally executed. And, don't even tell me that the human feels remorse.

Sick? I say evil and scarier than the animal in my book. I know what to expect with an animal.

[ladyjane]

One day we will all know exactly what God thinks of how we treat animals. I don't profess to know what He thinks nor do I preach it. I try on a daily basis to bring no harm to a human or an animal and I see no difference myself....animals are living beings just as we are. Who are we to lord over them? Do we feel we should lord over the people with IQs lower than ours? I certainly hope not but after reading some of these thoughts, I am left to wonder.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

And unless the human's mind is sick - he's a sociopath, he knows better. The animal doesn't. The lion or bull or whale just go on as if nothing much happened unless they got a good meal out of it. He'll never ever feel remorse.

You will think I am off the beam, but I am not convinced of that. At least not when it comes to dogs. I have seen dogs bite and then look at a person as if to apologize, hanging their heads as if sorrowful.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

One day we will all know exactly what God thinks of how we treat animals. I don't profess to know what He thinks nor do I preach it. I try on a daily basis to bring no harm to a human or an animal and I see no difference myself....animals are living beings just as we are. Who are we to lord over them? Do we feel we should lord over the people with IQs lower than ours? I certainly hope not but after reading some of these thoughts, I am left to wonder.

Omgosh, THIS. All of this. Indeed, who are we to lord over anything and assume we know we're superior as if it was some universal law like gravity...?!! It astounds me when philosophical or religious tenets are presented as fact.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Omgosh, THIS. All of this. Indeed, who are we to lord over anything and assume we know we're superior as if it was some universal law like gravity...?!! It astounds me when philosophical or religious tenets are presented as fact.

Yep!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

You will think I am off the beam, but I am not convinced of that. At least not when it comes to dogs. I have seen dogs bite and then look at a person as if to apologize, hanging their heads as if sorrowful.

I agree that most dogs(not all by a good stretch), having lived hand-in-fist with humans for centuries now, seem to recognize that once they bite a human, they might have done the wrong thing, whether it's from self-interest that they could have just invited harsh retribution or some type of remorse that they bit a person who was interacting with them, I don't know for sure and neither does anyone else. Probably, if I got nuts and hurt a giant that towered over me, I'd be instantly sorry, too! haha. But dogs that live in the wild or on their own for a while or dogs in predator mode usually don't show any remorseful feelings of any kind after a bite. They just hit, do their damage and usually run off.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

And unless the human's mind is sick - he's a sociopath, he knows better. The animal doesn't. The lion or bull or whale just go on as if nothing much happened unless they got a good meal out of it. He'll never ever feel remorse.

I don't understand the point you were trying to make here...can you clarify a little?

Bc to me, this is actually a perfect example of why humans can be so deplorable...they have the capacity to "know better" in an easier way than dogs, yet they do it anyway.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I agree that most dogs(not all by a good stretch), having lived hand-in-fist with humans for centuries now, seem to recognize that once they bite a human, they might have done the wrong thing, whether it's from self-interest that they could have just invited harsh retribution or some type of remorse that they bit a person who was interacting with them, I don't know for sure and neither does anyone else. Probably, if I got nuts and hurt a giant that towered over me, I'd be instantly sorry, too! haha. But dogs that live in the wild or on their own for a while or dogs in predator mode usually don't show any remorseful feelings of any kind after a bite. They just hit, do their damage and usually run off.

Are you trying to delineate the differences btwn animals and humans, is that what you're getting it? If it is, here is what I don't understand: yes, we're different -- how does that translate to one being superior? To me, it only means we're just that: different. I cannot say which is superior, as I don't have the ability to just "know" something like that as if it's a fact. It's simply not a fact, it's just a mere human belief that is held by some.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

The animal is immediately executed. The human lives off of us for the rest of his days or until he is finally executed. And, don't even tell me that the human feels remorse.

Sick? I say evil and scarier than the animal in my book. I know what to expect with an animal.

I know - animals almost never get the benefit of the doubt or a chance at rehab and a serial killer on the loose is far scarier to me than a wild dog or raging lion loose from the zoo and running wild in the neighborhood. The human is far more cunning and intelligent and is often hate-filled, whereas the animal is just being an animal and reacting from predator mode - hunger, excitement or fear. Many humans in jail for the rest of their lives do change, are sorry for what they did, feel great remorse and go on to live what society would call exemplary lives and try to help others. I never lose heart or hope over a dog who misbehaves or those humans willing to change.

[gemy]

I am halfway through this documentary. So far a tad dense ,and with no humour yet that I have seen. As of halfway through nobody has shown me new thoughts or information different to books published 10 or more years ago, on Big Ag and corporate farming.

We as humans can come together and deplore the condition these Big Ag farmers raise their livestock in, but that does not mean this is a justification for Animal Rights.

So far halfway through there is no look at sustainable small farmers of livestock that have their stock pasture raised and live a life free of confinement. Nor is there yet to be given the chicken farmer that has their chickens raised freely and not in those dreaded pens.

What we have is an expose like many of Big Business ravaging the environment, the animals and humans for their own profit motives.

My belief and it is only my belief says where there is life, there is some degree of awareness coupled to some ability to feel pain. Following this logic should dictate that I give plants and insects freedom from my need to eat, that they too have equal right or should have under the law.

I was particularly un-impressed when they thought to showcase developmentally challenged individuals to make a point that we as "humans" allow even "them" human rights. Huh??? For me it just proves the point that we as humans need to protect not only our own species but other species from yes, even the encroachments and cruelty of our own species. I thought that little vignette was downright nasty. I shall ask my sister what she thought of being showcased in this way!

I understand that the use of the term |superior" is meant to be taken negatively. Why not use a different term? Those of greater intelligence and rationale have a greater responsibility to the world we all inhabit.

Superior is just another adjective, just like tall or short, fat or thin, short sighted or long sighted.

And I had to laugh when this film maker waylaid people in the street to on an ad hoc basis come up with a defense of "why| humans should consider themselves superior to animals.

Yup really really objective reporting. So far as I have said I am only halfway through this promo.



.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I don't understand the point you were trying to make here...can you clarify a little?

Bc to me, this is actually a perfect example of why humans can be so deplorable...they have the capacity to "know better" in an easier way than dogs, yet they do it anyway.



Are you trying to delineate the differences btwn animals and humans, is that what you're getting it? If it is, here is what I don't understand: yes, we're different -- how does that translate to one being superior? To me, it only means we're just that: different. I cannot say which is superior, as I don't have the ability to just "know" something like that as if it's a fact. It's simply not a fact, it's just a mere human belief that is held by some.

I'd say the majority of people think humans are superior to animals in every way due to our unsurpassed human spirit and brainpower - our amazing inventiveness in medicine, industry and science, ability to create and share, our wonderful capacity to explore, advance society and help create a world so filled with wonderful things and most of all, humans carry charity for others in their hearts. Are there bad humans - plenty of them - but it doesn't equate the rest of us with being on a par with animals, who live mostly by instinct to merely keep their species going.