"Speciesism: The Movie" -- Looks Like a MUST SEE for True Animal Lovers

[Maximo]

I'm quite sure that my dogs are capable of complex thoughts and emotion. Wish I had a photo of Teddy when I cut his walk short one night. There was no mistake that he was disgusted and rolled his eyes at me. Seriously, I do not think Max and Teddy's behavior and actions are all primal or conditioned.

Humans can build skyscrapers and make laws, but does that really make mankind smarter and superior? As Linda and Ann pointed out, humans are capable of plenty of stupidity and cruelty. Remorse for wrongdoing? Plenty of people who have no remorse for their actions, and they qualify as completely 'normal,' not mentally ill or brain damaged. Knowing right from wrong? First, these are relative terms beyond our laws. Second, plenty of people who don't know.

While humans have accomplished great feats, is Bill Gates superior to a man who happily lives a simple life in a cabin in the woods?

As I wrote earlier, I just don't have a need to rank anyone or anything in life, assigning importance. If the mental stumbling block is the idea of *equality*, think of it as harmony. That is my ideal.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I bought the movie on Amazon, so if you want to borrow it after I watch it, Kristin, I can just mail it to you.

Thank you for the offer, Ann. I found it online because I watch everything on the computer.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Maximo

Thank you for the offer, Ann. I found it online because I watch everything on the computer.

Link, please.

[ladyjane]

Nevermind....DUH...I found it!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Maximo

I'm quite sure that my dogs are capable of complex thoughts and emotion. Wish I had a photo of Teddy when I cut his walk short one night. There was no mistake that he was disgusted and rolled his eyes at me. Seriously, I do not think Max and Teddy's behavior and actions are all primal or conditioned.

Humans can build skyscrapers and make laws, but does that really make mankind smarter and superior? As Linda and Ann pointed out, humans are capable of plenty of stupidity and cruelty. Remorse for wrongdoing? Plenty of people who have no remorse for their actions, and they qualify as completely 'normal,' not mentally ill or brain damaged. Knowing right from wrong? First, these are relative terms beyond our laws. Second, plenty of people who don't know.

While humans have accomplished great feats, is Bill Gates superior to a man who happily lives a simple life in a cabin in the woods?

As I wrote earlier, I just don't have a need to rank anyone or anything in life, assigning importance. If the mental stumbling block is the idea of *equality*, think of it as harmony. That is my ideal.

I am totally convinced they are. I have had some pretty amazing things happen with my pups over the years.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Maximo

I'm quite sure that my dogs are capable of complex thoughts and emotion. Wish I had a photo of Teddy when I cut his walk short one night. There was no mistake that he was disgusted and rolled his eyes at me. Seriously, I do not think Max and Teddy's behavior and actions are all primal or conditioned.

Humans can build skyscrapers and make laws, but does that really make mankind smarter and superior? As Linda and Ann pointed out, humans are capable of plenty of stupidity and cruelty. Remorse for wrongdoing? Plenty of people who have no remorse for their actions, and they qualify as completely 'normal,' not mentally ill or brain damaged. Knowing right from wrong? First, these are relative terms beyond our laws. Second, plenty of people who don't know.

While humans have accomplished great feats, is Bill Gates superior to a man who happily lives a simple life in a cabin in the woods?

As I wrote earlier, I just don't have a need to rank anyone or anything in life, assigning importance. If the mental stumbling block is the idea of *equality*, think of it as harmony. That is my ideal.

Bill Gates may have had a |superior" contribution to the advancement of the internet, that indeed allows us here and now to talk with each other over thousands of miles and at a pretty cheap price. I don't know that contribution of that one man in the woods, maybe he is contributing to world peace through the power of his prayer and his compassion to all fellow beings.

Human beings I believe naturally rank things all the time in importance every day all day long. Is it more important I pay my tax bill, or run to the hospital to be there for a sick family member?

If my car is on empty is it more important that I fill it up, or try to run on empty to get to where I need to go?

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I can't take anything away from your review since you went into it with a completely closed off mind, assumptions, and conclusions - and came out the same way. And how could've it been any different from that? You made up your mind before you even saw it. What a shame that we can't just have a nice discourse about it, . I instead you sound so angry, paranoid, and closed off. I don't see a discussion frame of mind at all, unfortunately, so I won't go there. Nonetheless, I'm glad you saw it as I think it's a positive moverespect the fact that you viewed it.

I think we're all capable of having our own personal definition of what a "true animal lover is" and if it's different from yours, maybe just respect that difference instead of putting it down somehow. On one hand you're preaching we should all think for ourselves, and on the other you seem to be putting down those who elect to do just that . And just for the record, I don't believe a true animal lover has to be a vegan, vegetarian, or similar (before anyone goes making any assumptions).

I have been exposed to this "movement" and then researched and read about it, for YEARS, and you are dead right on one point.....I do NOT buy into this at all!.....For example, I was absolutely terrified when Cass Sunstein was actually appointed a position in the administration, because I already KNEW about him and where he was coming from, and now it seemed like he was given a position of power, where this agenda could be infused into our society directly from the White House and people would not even realize it. Those who did not agree with this indoctrination would be caught completely unaware. Like Obama, I have "a pen and a phone", and all I could do was contact people in the government, people in the news media, journalists, etc., that may possibly agree with me, those of us who do not subscribe to this theory of specieism, and after many, many contacts with people from all walks of life that have position power that we did not have, we were finally able to get several interested enough in that man to do their own research into him, .....Fortunately, they then put this man and his agenda out for all to become informed....thank God, they did and after information and facts and past history of this man came more into the light, he stepped down. This post, this documentary is sooooo not my first exposure to this theory of "specieism".....I have already gone into this idea with an open, willing mind.....read several major books about it, that were written and published by people supporting this, looked at many "documentaries" about it, including documentaries that instruct followers how to "persuade" or "nudge" people that may "question" or "oppose" this notion, into their corner and way or thinking. So, I have done my own research and deliberation and I have formed my own opinions about this theory, and my mind is now closed to this idea. I just do not want people to look at this benign little fluffy, humorous, sweet little documentary and buy the entire package, hook line and sinker. I just want people to get familiar with this movement and what it is actually about,where it is planning to go, what it ultimately wants to achieve, bfore they buy into it. No anger, no paranoia, no assumptions needed because their intent and goals are all published and very forthcoming, because I know about this "pig in a poke"....I just hate to see anyone that has not dug into what this is actually all about, to go along with it uninformed. If they know for sure what they are getting into, then they have made an informed decision, which is good. I woulk not dream of putting down anyones own defination of what they think a "true animal lover" is....I saw that phrase attached to "....A MUST see for any...." and that sounded to me like "everyone that is a true animal lover will love this documentary and agree with it.....and if you dont agree with it, you are clearly NOT a "true animal lover", you are paranoid or closed minded or perhaps even advocate forms of cruelty to animals because you think you are superior to animals." (I agree this may be feelings based on my knowledge base of this movement and how words and phrases are used....) It concerned me, not angered me, that people that do not know the movement of specieism, its goals and how it plans to indoctrinate this theory or agenda upon society, would look at this lighthearted documentary and think that is all there is to this movement. It concerned me, just as it concerns me when I see people sold "puppy mill pets' because they simply do not know their uninformed vulnerability has been targeted by a breeder that has their own best interest at heart, their own agenda. Just research it and know what it is about, and make an informed decision about choices you make.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gemy

Bill Gates may have had a |superior" contribution to the advancement of the internet, that indeed allows us here and now to talk with each other over thousands of miles and at a pretty cheap price. I don't know that contribution of that one man in the woods, maybe he is contributing to world peace through the power of his prayer and his compassion to all fellow beings.

Human beings I believe naturally rank things all the time in importance every day all day long. Is it more important I pay my tax bill, or run to the hospital to be there for a sick family member?

If my car is on empty is it more important that I fill it up, or try to run on empty to get to where I need to go?

Ranking inanimate objects or activities is a far cry from ranking live beings.

[gemy]

Linda we do that too. With our friends and our family, and those sometimes pesky critters that can infest our homes.

Thankfully for many of us those are not daily decisions we need to make, but they come up often enough in every-ones lifetime.

My point was and is humans rank things situations including people all the time throughout their life.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I have been exposed to this "movement" and then researched and read about it, for YEARS, and you are dead right on one point.....I do NOT buy into this at all!.....For example, I was absolutely terrified when Cass Sunstein was actually appointed a position in the administration, because I already KNEW about him and where he was coming from, and now it seemed like he was given a position of power, where this agenda could be infused into our society directly from the White House and people would not even realize it. Those who did not agree with this indoctrination would be caught completely unaware. Like Obama, I have "a pen and a phone", and all I could do was contact people in the government, people in the news media, journalists, etc., that may possibly agree with me, those of us who do not subscribe to this theory of specieism, and after many, many contacts with people from all walks of life that have position power that we did not have, we were finally able to get several interested enough in that man to do their own research into him, .....Fortunately, they then put this man and his agenda out for all to become informed....thank God, they did and after information and facts and past history of this man came more into the light, he stepped down. This post, this documentary is sooooo not my first exposure to this theory of "specieism".....I have already gone into this idea with an open, willing mind.....read several major books about it, that were written and published by people supporting this, looked at many "documentaries" about it, including documentaries that instruct followers how to "persuade" or "nudge" people that may "question" or "oppose" this notion, into their corner and way or thinking. So, I have done my own research and deliberation and I have formed my own opinions about this theory, and my mind is now closed to this idea. I just do not want people to look at this benign little fluffy, humorous, sweet little documentary and buy the entire package, hook line and sinker. I just want people to get familiar with this movement and what it is actually about,where it is planning to go, what it ultimately wants to achieve, bfore they buy into it. No anger, no paranoia, no assumptions needed because their intent and goals are all published and very forthcoming, because I know about this "pig in a poke"....I just hate to see anyone that has not dug into what this is actually all about, to go along with it uninformed. If they know for sure what they are getting into, then they have made an informed decision, which is good. I woulk not dream of putting down anyones own defination of what they think a "true animal lover" is....I saw that phrase attached to "....A MUST see for any...." and that sounded to me like "everyone that is a true animal lover will love this documentary and agree with it.....and if you dont agree with it, you are clearly NOT a "true animal lover", you are paranoid or closed minded or perhaps even advocate forms of cruelty to animals because you think you are superior to animals." (I agree this may be feelings based on my knowledge base of this movement and how words and phrases are used....) It concerned me, not angered me, that people that do not know the movement of specieism, its goals and how it plans to indoctrinate this theory or agenda upon society, would look at this lighthearted documentary and think that is all there is to this movement. It concerned me, just as it concerns me when I see people sold "puppy mill pets' because they simply do not know their uninformed vulnerability has been targeted by a breeder that has their own best interest at heart, their own agenda. Just research it and know what it is about, and make an informed decision about choices you make.

I have not looked into who produced this movie or who was connected to it, but why do you assume that the use of the word 'speciesism' is tied to any agenda? It is a word that exists outside of any movement. As I wrote, I do not have any need to say humans are superior to other animals, or vice versa. I do not support passing any laws that would give other animals 'individual rights.' But can't people learn anything from a movie like this?

I also wrote earlier that I understand and have seen up close how some laws with good intentions (environmental and animal related) are exploited for other intentions. This does not mean that we should close our minds to problems related to the environment or animal welfare. There isn't a boogeyman lurking behind every tree.

[gemy]

Saw the last half, and my impression was not a whole lot different to the first half. Except good grief they brought up Nazism and holocaust survivors to make an emotional impact point??? So we have a documentary using developmentally delayed adults Iwith videos showcasing their disability, and Nazis and holocaust survivors to buttress their points?????

The approximate last half was all about how we should be all vegans. Again they never showed the small farmers and how they raise their herds not one nada nada nada.

And plants are living entities as well. Some have defensive mechanisms, and avoidance activities as well. I think nobody is going to argue that plants are sentient but they are alive just as alive as animals, and capable of avoiding as they can noxous stimuli.

Does big Agro have a lot to improve upon. I think so Again the link to Animal Rights, and I must be a Vegan to live healthily in this world, the point was not made, when they debase themselves by stooping to such low tactics

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Maximo

I have not looked into who produced this movie or who was connected to it, but why do you assume that the use of the word 'speciesism' is tied to any agenda? It is a word that exists outside of any movement. As I wrote, I do not have any need to say humans are superior to other animals, or vice versa. I do not support passing any laws that would give other animals 'individual rights.' But can't people learn anything from a movie like this?

I also wrote earlier that I understand and have seen up close how some laws with good intentions (environmental and animal related) are exploited for other intentions. This does not mean that we should close our minds to problems related to the environment or animal welfare. There isn't a boogeyman lurking behind every tree.

You would need look into who produced this documentary to understand where it is coming from. I make no assumptions about anything, as that makes an "a$$ -of-u-and-me", but the word "specieism" is a movement....it has a definitive connotation...it is a theory, it has nothing to do with animal welfare, it is all about promoting animal rights. Research it so you dont have to assume anything....it is clear as a bell, they are proud of their movement, and it is for everyone to know what it is all about and make their own choice. I think it is safe to say we are all proponents of animal welfare......but there is a huge difference in animal welfare and animal rights. Research it so you are not swayed by my perception or beliefs, or dodging my perceived boogymen behind every tree, but from your own conclusions based on what YOU believe and thinkm and based on more than one sweet documentary..... The irony is, with all this discussion, this documentary will probably get viewed more than it would have otherwise! And that is a good thing.....knowledge is power! And look! We are having a great discussion with no hollering or name calling or accusations!

[ladyjane]

I realize it would open a can of worms so to speak, but I long for the day that animals have rights. Until then people will do with them as they will and I am disgusted by what I see.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

You would need look into who produced this documentary to understand where it is coming from. I make no assumptions about anything, as that makes an "a$$ -of-u-and-me", but the word "specieism" is a movement....it has a definitive connotation...it is a theory, it has nothing to do with animal welfare, it is all about promoting animal rights. Research it so you dont have to assume anything....it is clear as a bell, they are proud of their movement, and it is for everyone to know what it is all about and make their own choice. I think it is safe to say we are all proponents of animal welfare......but there is a huge difference in animal welfare and animal rights. Research it so you are not swayed by my perception or beliefs, or dodging my perceived boogymen behind every tree, but from your own conclusions based on what YOU believe and thinkm and based on more than one sweet documentary..... The irony is, with all this discussion, this documentary will probably get viewed more than it would have otherwise! And that is a good thing.....knowledge is power! And look! We are having a great discussion with no hollering or name calling or accusations!

The word speciesism may have origins with an individual and group with certain beliefs and goals . . . but it is also a simple word in the dictionary with the definition: "1. prejudice or discrimination based on species; especially : discrimination against animals. 2. the assumption of human superiority on which speciesism is based "

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I realize it would open a can of worms so to speak, but I long for the day that animals have rights. Until then people will do with them as they will and I am disgusted by what I see.

It would open a can of worms to have 'rights.' Would tougher anti-cruelty laws and ordinances achieve the same thing?

Also related -- I hate laws that consider pets as 'property' with value of only the purchase price.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I realize it would open a can of worms so to speak, but I long for the day that animals have rights. Until then people will do with them as they will and I am disgusted by what I see.

Things are far from perfect now but once animals are given rights, which dogs and other animals are bred, dogs and other animal shows, activities entirely stopped or so rule-burdened they just go away, who can own a dog or horse, cow, etc., rescue shelters and which ill/injured dogs and animals can be judged viable and worthy of saving by extraordinary means will likely be guided by legislative rules, lawsuits, lawyers, courts and judges, rather than by human love and charity - all the choices out of all our hands. That sounds disgusting, too.