Another problem at the dog park. :( really upset

[yorkietalkjilly]

But for a moment consider if you were the one wearing the shock collar & knew that anything you did could anytime get you beeped & shocked - it would still probably hurt & shock you - frazzle your nerves. I know it would me. It would Britster. It would tjdmom & Gemy. The point being - hurting & shocking affects all people the same - even though we are all very different, as you say - yet people still ALL don't like it. Dogs are like that - different in many ways but they ALL don't like being shocked. Remember how your dog acted the first shock? He did not like it.

You said every owner & dog are different. No, not that different when it comes to being shocked - no person, no animal likes it. It is intimidating & nerve-racking over time & can be cruel for an animal to have to live like that - never knowing for sure when the beep/shock is coming. Why subject your dog to that intimidation form of training when other forms of training are every bit as effective, are tons of fun for you & your dog & provide a great bond for you & your dog. I promise you one of the ways I helped rehabilitate my almost feral little Tibbe when I got him at 9 mos. of age was through loving positive-reinforcement behavior modification training. Then, a bit later once he was confident & strong, we did some Nothing In Life Is Free training whenever he would start to ignore certain things he knew not to do - such as try to rush out the front door or keep barking once told to quiet. He just loves the training & he's an over-achiever - wants to "get it" ASAP & the moment you start to say a command, he's started doing it - happy as can be, mouth wide open, panting like dogs do when they say they are "laughing". You know how they kind of short-pant when they are about to get to do something they really want to do? That's how Tibbe is when I tell him we are going to train or I give him a command. He LOVES it. I'll bet your guy would, too & you would not have to put him through beeping & shocking. To tell you the truth, I would much rather see "tsskk"ing or an alpha roll or two than shocking - and so would any dog. Why don't you just try some of the NILIF training & see how rewarding it is for both of you? You'll be pleasantly surprised - I promise.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by AlyHope

I almost never have to actually shock apache. She is for the most part a very well behaved dog. The shock collar has a beep funtion on it. If Apache is doing something she shouldnt be, She gets a beep and then the shock if she has not corrected the behavior. 9 out of 10 times the beep is enough to get her to stop whatever shes doing. I agree that there are some total idiots walking around goimg tssssssk! Its all trial and error. Every dog is different and so is every owner. Everyone has a way they like to do things & that works for them.

I know everyone has a way. But gosh dear me. Did you contact your trainer and they recommended this? Or did you just go out on your own and get this as a "fool proof" way to discipline/control your dog.

My heart went so out to you as I do have big and unless you have an Alastian Shephed a much bigger dog then the normal GSD. My boy weighs when healthy 130 lbs. Stands 30 inches at the shoulder. You bet your sweet bippy I obedience trained him from puppyhood and still now that he is six years old/// it never ends.

My heart went out cause when Magic who is a full male then and now, and a Hard Dominant Male, decided at nine months old he would place his mouth around my hand when I was trying to get him in stay. What a Bloody Shock that was!. He dug in just enough to let me know he was serious. And that after he went down too. He obeyed then told me he didn't like this Command. My trainer asked me did I kick him in the face? I said no. I told him in no uncertain terms to release; and stared at him, squared stanced. He released my hand, I commanded up/stand, then DOWN. He went down on a dime. That was the start of our change. Remember I said about GSD turning, well most working breeds will turn one time or another, you better know how to deal with it. And BTW my trainer was wrong, you never ever will cow Magic, you need to address his fairness side, and of course his love of me which is immense.

Gal she doesn't need a shock collar, she needs an owner who will immediately correct bad behaviour; but oh so much more importantly you get her out there and do heel, retreive, stand, stay, down sit. Walk around, back heel all the obedience commands she knows, then do trick training, back spin, dance, spin right left, raise paws, roll over, etc etc.

And go back to your trainer, or investigate another trainer. She is just a pup, and you and she need to learn how to go on from here.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Here is a link with some good information from many resources about the problems with shock collars. Since you love your dog, you will want to read this. It is eye-opening.

Say No to Shock Collars

[yorkietalkjilly]

I agree with absolutely everything Gemy said.

Remember, your dog is not learning respect for you from the collar, just to fear & react to whatever precedes the beep/shock & associate that & all surrounding smells & events with all that unnatural unpleasantness - so foreign to the natural instincts of a dog to respond to a leader. Any beeping from this point on could send it into a shaking, nervous, fearful jelly of a dog. It could all end in a fearful mess of a dog who will still bite you because it hasn't learned from you who is leader & follower in your little family pack. I know you are kind of feeling bombarded so I'm hoping that though you will initially feel very defensive & like we are ganging up - just take the time to consider why all the truly reputable & valued expert trainers & veterinarians vote "no" to any type shock collar training in cases like your dog's.

Shock collars are only for a last-ditch efforts for vicious, aggressive dogs with a history of attacks & bites headed for death by court order unless they can be rehabbed by expert trainers & rehomed permanently with expert handlers. And they only briefly use them during periods of extreme rage at first, then the other positive reward/NILIF type training takes over for the entire rest of the sessions.

[kamax60]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

But for a moment consider if you were the one wearing the shock collar & knew that anything you did could anytime get you beeped & shocked - it would still probably hurt & shock you - frazzle your nerves. I know it would me. It would Britster. It would tjdmom & Gemy. The point being - hurting & shocking affects all people the same - even though we are all very different, as you say - yet people still ALL don't like it. Dogs are like that - different in many ways but they ALL don't like being shocked. Remember how your dog acted the first shock? He did not like it.

You said every owner & dog are different. No, not that different when it comes to being shocked - no person, no animal likes it. It is intimidating & nerve-racking over time & can be cruel for an animal to have to live like that - never knowing for sure when the beep/shock is coming. Why subject your dog to that intimidation form of training when other forms of training are every bit as effective, are tons of fun for you & your dog & provide a great bond for you & your dog. I promise you one of the ways I helped rehabilitate my almost feral little Tibbe when I got him at 9 mos. of age was through loving positive-reinforcement behavior modification training. Then, a bit later once he was confident & strong, we did some Nothing In Life Is Free training whenever he would start to ignore certain things he knew not to do - such as try to rush out the front door or keep barking once told to quiet. He just loves the training & he's an over-achiever - wants to "get it" ASAP & the moment you start to say a command, he's started doing it - happy as can be, mouth wide open, panting like dogs do when they say they are "laughing". You know how they kind of short-pant when they are about to get to do something they really want to do? That's how Tibbe is when I tell him we are going to train or I give him a command. He LOVES it. I'll bet your guy would, too & you would not have to put him through beeping & shocking. To tell you the truth, I would much rather see "tsskk"ing or an alpha roll or two than shocking - and so would any dog. Why don't you just try some of the NILIF training & see how rewarding it is for both of you? You'll be pleasantly surprised - I promise.

[AlyHope]

Okay everyone. I get it, the shock collar isnt my best idea
but I cant trust her. Despite me calling her back plenty of times and telling her to stay, she still ignored me and went to go attack that other dog at the park. I use the shock as a back up only at the dog park just incase I feel that I need it. I love this dog very muh and wouldnt put it on her if I thought it would hurt her. I am going to look into more training with her and the shock is only a temporary situation until I can depend on her to respond to my commands. I am however really sick of feeling attacked on here I was really upset that my baby had bit me and wanted some reassuring words.... Not a lecture on how I'm a terrible doggy mom for doing this.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Oh, don't feel like that. I haven't read any attack posts myself. Disagreeing and voicing one's own opinions as many have done is not attacking. It is discussion. And even if someone did get really rough in a post or two, remember it is a public forum & all kinds of people are free to speak their minds, though most if not all are giving you really good opinions & advice which is what you get when you post a thread explaining a dog behavior problem on an online dog forum.

We all joined here to have some fun and learn how to be better dog stewards just like you no doubt did & have all learned here from threads just like this! At least all of the posts I've read have commiserated with your problem & pointed out other, more realistic and kinder ways of dealing with your dog's problem which will achieve the effect you want - a happy, healthy, obedient dog. We are on your & your doggie's side & just trying to show you a better way to handle your dog's behavior problems as we've all been shown things here in the past or from our own personal experiences. Good & patient positive training that you & he will enjoy & want to do will be quicker & have much more lasting effects than intimidation training ever will - plus you won't possibly have to deal with a fear-reaction like shock collars can cause over time. If it were me who had been bitten, until my dog was better trained to respond only to me outside, I would keep him on leash outside of the home & keep him away from highly excitable, scent-raging dog parks until he's under control. Taking him back there until he's under control is just putting him in a situation where he could fail & you want to do nothing but set him up for a series of successes for a while. It won't be much of a sacrifice & it could save your relationship.

Just do a little research on behavior modification training or NILIF training or whatever positive reward method you choose & soon you will be gaining control of your sweet dog & you two will have a closer bond than you ever had. We're all pulling for you two & praying for real success.

[QuickSilver]

Don't feel bad. We've all made mistakes with our dogs, and felt horribly afterward. When I first got Thor, I tried to socialize him with big dogs at the park, and once he got so scared that he ran away from me, out of the park, and onto the sidewalk. All I could think of was what if he had run into the street and gotten hit by a car... I really bawled over that one.

I think the good news is that your dog really was not challenging you or showing you hostility. She was emotional and she reacted aggressively to a surprise pull on her collar. Most dogs in that situation will turn and bite at the thing restraining them without thinking -- just as most people would if their emotions were running that high.

We care about you and your dog and we want to give you good advice so that you have a happy doggie family. I am also against shock collars and would not advise one in this situation, but of course I know that you love your dog and are trying to do right by her.

[lynzy420]

Hmmm, in the nicest kindest possible way, I say get this dog in with a real trainer/handler. If you have had to use the beep and shock that many times there are some deeper issues. I really am not criticizing you, I have had a dog who "'turned" out of the clear blue sky, It was an awful awful thing. Shock collars and beeps are not the answer. Real training is the solution.

Honestly, if you are going to rely on beeping shock collar to make you feel better, it won't work in the long run. Please, please, please, get this dog properly re-trained.

p.s. if you really think about it, a shock collar or beep collar has got to be the most annoying thing to use, I can't imagine what it does to the dogs nerves...and temprament.

Good Luck

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by AlyHope

Okay everyone. I get it, the shock collar isnt my best idea
but I cant trust her. Despite me calling her back plenty of times and telling her to stay, she still ignored me and went to go attack that other dog at the park. I use the shock as a back up only at the dog park just incase I feel that I need it. I love this dog very muh and wouldnt put it on her if I thought it would hurt her. I am going to look into more training with her and the shock is only a temporary situation until I can depend on her to respond to my commands. I am however really sick of feeling attacked on here I was really upset that my baby had bit me and wanted some reassuring words.... Not a lecture on how I'm a terrible doggy mom for doing this.

Oh no, I don't want you to feel this way. I have been in your shoes and it was much worse than what you went through. I went through the guilt and the fear as well, are you kidding I was terrified and broken hearted. We can't predict everything and when it comes to animals there is no way to know when these things will happen.

I know you don't trust him and quite frankly I don't blame you...but theres got to be a better way, a professional needs to be involved. I don't know if money is an issue but you could contact the local spca or even the local German Shepherd Rescue and ask them for guidance, I'd think they would want to help?

Please don't take him to the park until you feel more confident, it will get better, I don't think your a bad Doggie Momma!

[LunasMomma]

If this were my dog, I would NOT be taking her to the dog park again until she's been thoroughly straightened out with training. You are risking a lot by doing so. If you feel confident that you can hold her back if she got aggressive then it might be okay if she remained on a leash, but I don't know, I'm just a dog lover, not a trainer. Just my gut feeling.

I have heard lots of good things about the NILF training. Shock collars should be an absolute last resort, just my opinion.

Good luck with your girl

[Britster]

If you have to put a shock collar on a dog in order for her to behave at the dog park, then she doesn't belong in a dog park IMO. I am not judging, or trying to be rude, just offering my thoughts. I am not a professional but have done a lot of reading and studying on dog behavior and trained my own dog very well, as well as those I dogsat for and family members pets. So this is just from my limited experience. But your dog is a huge liability now at a dog park... if she hurts and/or kills another dog, she could be taken away from you or quarantined, etc. It just doesn't seem worth the risk. Like I said I do understand shock collars, prong collars, etc, and they have their place somewhere but believe they should only be used by trained professionals and under direct supervision of one.

[tjdmom]

Originally Posted by Britster

If you have to put a shock collar on a dog in order for her to behave at the dog park, then she doesn't belong in a dog park IMO. I am not judging, or trying to be rude, just offering my thoughts. I am not a professional but have done a lot of reading and studying on dog behavior and trained my own dog very well, as well as those I dogsat for and family members pets. So this is just from my limited experience. But your dog is a huge liability now at a dog park... if she hurts and/or kills another dog, she could be taken away from you or quarantined, etc. It just doesn't seem worth the risk. Like I said I do understand shock collars, prong collars, etc, and they have their place somewhere but believe they should only be used by trained professionals and under direct supervision of one.

I agree with Brit... if you need a shock collar then the dog park is not the place for her. I know I posted a link to a site that I strongly believe in but especially for this situation... please take a look and post... you aren't the first person with these kinds of issues and people have had amazing success....please please please at least try that....
I completely disagree with shock collars too but can understand why you would feel like you had no other choice....