"I don't consider her a woman" - YorkieTalk.com Forums

roseylovestosho · 03-18-2011, 02:16 PM

I'm in a phD program where I am the only female in my entire class. To make a long story short we were having a meeting with the director of our program because recruitment week is coming up and she wanted ideas on how to improve the presentation of our program as to attract the new recruits to come to our school. In the middle of the meeting the director turned to me in front of everyone and said "Well, Rose you are the only woman in your class..." and I didn't even get to finish hearing what she said because the guy sitting next to me said "I don't know about you guys but I don't consider Rose a woman," and all of his friends laughed. I had to stop myself from crying. This is not the first time either, they're always making REALLY mean comments about me TO MY FACE. I've tried ignoring them, defending myself etc and nothing changes. I'm getting teary-eyed just thinking about it...I'm beyond sad...

They've made fun of the way I talk, what I wear...my personality...the list goes on. The link below is a picture of me since I don't have any pictures of me on here and I think sometimes its easier to identify with people when you can actually see them...imo

http://i53.tinypic.com/29wn98z.png

What can I do?!

linz06 · 03-18-2011, 02:23 PM

I have to say you are a BEAUTIFUL woman! And the guys in your class must be inconsiderate jerks and very insecure with themselves to say things like that! Again, you are really gorgeous! They are probably just upset that you don't give them the time of day

LaviniaHyacynth · 03-18-2011, 02:25 PM

Hi Rose, First of all, Are they blind? You look like a beautiful young woman to me. Hold your head up as you have it all going for you....looks, brains, and a love for yorkies

Seriously, consider the problem is your classmate's ignorance (you would think a Phd candidate would think before saying something so obviously sexist and stupid) and not you. Hugs, Kathryn

winston2010 · 03-18-2011, 02:30 PM

when I was made manager of Information Services, that was part of shared computer system in Dayton Ohio I was the only woman around the table of 15. I stuck in their and when I left 35 years later it was about half and half.
Some men are threatened by a woman with a brain. You hang in there, don't you let them get you down. I'll say a prayer for you because I know its hard being in a profession that is mostly men.

linz06 · 03-18-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winston2010

when I was made manager of Information Services, that was part of shared computer system in Dayton Ohio I was the only woman around the table of 15. I stuck in their and when I left 35 years later it was about half and half.
Some men are threatened by a woman with a brain. You hang in there, don't you let them get you down. I'll say a prayer for you because I know its hard being in a profession that is mostly men.

I agree with this. I work with men too, in engineering, and when I first started I had to deal with a lot of sexism on construction sites and it really got under my skin! A lot of men really do feel threatened when they realize women can do anything they can do!

miabellaamoure · 03-18-2011, 02:39 PM

You are a beautiful young woman. Have you ever spoke out about how their comments offend you? If not, you NEED to...if not for yourself but, for the next woman they treat this way in their everyday lives.

The good thing is...when you are done with your studies, you'll be done with them as well.

roseylovestosho · 03-18-2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miabellaamoure

You are a beautiful young woman. Have you ever spoke out about how their comments offend you? If not, you NEED to...if not for yourself but, for the next woman they treat this way in their everyday lives.

The good thing is...when you are done with your studies, you'll be done with them as well.

I've stood up for myself in the sense that I've made a sarcastic comment back, but I've never sat down with any of them and have said that their comments have hurt me. Mostly because I almost feel as if I let them know that it hurts me then they'd probably get a kick out of it...or even worse make it more difficult for me then they already have...

roseylovestosho · 03-18-2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linz06

I agree with this. I work with men too, in engineering, and when I first started I had to deal with a lot of sexism on construction sites and it really got under my skin! A lot of men really do feel threatened when they realize women can do anything they can do!

What comments did you have to deal with? I haven't heard any comments about my intelligence as of yet...only comments relating to my looks/personality

Princess10 · 03-18-2011, 02:56 PM

wow! that just boils my blood!
you are beautiful and it's not just everyone jumping on the bandwagon!

just like the others said:

it's about insecurities
it's about them wondering why you wont give them the time of day
it's about their obvious caveman "thinking"...mentality is more accurate
it's about them worrying about them being made out to look like the idiots they are by a woman
it's about them prob thinking that beauty & brains can't come in one pkge
i wish i was shocked, but thinking like this is all too common in our society still in 2011...ridiculous!!!

that is beee essss, and i would be glad to tell them all about themselves,

so you can keep your professional mannerisms like the professional lady you are!!

Princess10 · 03-18-2011, 02:57 PM

and furthermore, your looks should have nothing to do with it anyways!!

linz06 · 03-18-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseylovestosho

What comments did you have to deal with? I haven't heard any comments about my intelligence as of yet...only comments relating to my looks/personality

To begin with, in college there was one guy who hated women in engineering, and he did a speech for a communications class, about how women should stick to being nurses and cheerleaders

When I was starting out in the work force I had to do materials testing. Concrete trucks would come to site and I'd test their concrete and if it wasn't up to spec, they'd have to be sent away, and drivers are NOT happy about that. A lot try to put in extra stuff to clean out their trucks, which throws off their batch. So if I failed their concrete, I got a lot of "STUPID GIRL" and tons of "She doesn't know what the **** she's doing"

Same with testing soil density on construction sites. A few times they called a different company (who only employed males!) to come and test to check my results

I was always right.

I also had many creepy old men call me "baby" instead of my name, which made me feel pretty violated

My male coworkers started to get angry when they'd go out to some of my jobs when I was busy and the guys on site would say things like "You were way hotter the last time you were here"

I mean, it's not like I could help it. I'm a girl, but I wore the same old dirty jeans, t-shirts, vests, and hard hats that all the guys had!

Now that I'm primarily based in the office, I don't deal with it as much except one old engineer who is just finally letting me start working on his projects. Before this, he'd go to every other possible (male) outlet before asking me for help.

I still find it hard to deal with though, I don't have a thick skin, and I don't think I ever will.

I know it's tough, but hopefully when you're done school you will not have to deal with them anymore

miabellaamoure · 03-18-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseylovestosho

I've stood up for myself in the sense that I've made a sarcastic comment back, but I've never sat down with any of them and have said that their comments have hurt me. Mostly because I almost feel as if I let them know that it hurts me then they'd probably get a kick out of it...or even worse make it more difficult for me then they already have...

If you haven't had a heart to heart with any of them or your instructor, then you really do not know that it would get worse. If you are sure it would then if it were me...I'd have to question if this was the right place for me to be?

You need to speak up to somebody, those who are offending you, the instructor or someone who represents your school.

If it's not just teasing or them thinking of you as just one of the boys type attitude...then you need to put a stop to it. How much longer do you have to be in school?

FlDebra · 03-18-2011, 03:06 PM

VERY strange! First I thought maybe they could have meant it as a compliment -- you know, just including you as "one of the guys" as I got similar comments when I was in the Navy. They were said with friendship. But since you said they have been doing this all along, I can't figure it. I agree with everyone here -- you are gorgeous and very feminine looking. My guess is you wound up with several who just enjoy finding a person's "BUTTON" and pushing it to the extreme. Hold your head high and know that you are both intelligent & beautiful. Those qualities will stay long after these cads have realized what idiots they have been.

roseylovestosho · 03-18-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miabellaamoure

If you haven't had a heart to heart with any of them or your instructor, then you really do not know that it would get worse. If you are sure it would then if it were me...I'd have to question if this was the right place for me to be?

You need to speak up to somebody, those who are offending you, the instructor or someone who represents your school.

If it's not just teasing or them thinking of you as just one of the boys type attitude...then you need to put a stop to it. How much longer do you have to be in school?

This is my first year of graduate school, so four more years max. The only reason I don't think it's because they're treating me as "one of the guys" is because they never invite me to do anything on the weekends with them as a group...or even study group/sessions. I was considering talking to a professor but there's only one female professor and I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do or not...I'm afraid to come off as petty to the professors...

boopster · 03-18-2011, 03:11 PM

I would have said "That's OK - because I don't consider you a man!" But then I have an unfortunate tendency to blurt out things like that when under pressure.

I looked at your picture, and you are a beautiful young woman, so don't let anyone make you think otherwise. Sounds like you are in a program with some men who are immature and threatened by you.

Other than gritting your teeth and living through this period, I don't know what you can do except work to outshine these jerks. There are sexual harrassment laws that apply to students. If your school is in the U.S., it is subject to Title IX of the education amendments of 1972, and they are subject to some nasty repercussions if they knowingly allow harassment to take place.

Sexual harassment does not require the expectation of sexual activity. It can be as "simple" as the creation of a hostile environment based on your gender. The comment and laughter in front of your program director should have been enough in my mind to require that she take steps to stop it and/or report it.

Your school is required to have a policy on sexual harassment and a procedure for reporting it. You will probably find that information in your student handbook. Retaliation against someone for reporting sexual harassment is illegal. Unfortunately, there are a lot of subtle ways of retaliating against someone that might not meet the standard of proof in court -- such as the silent treatment from your fellow students or extra scrutiny of your performance if evaluations are subjective. So as an outsider, I would recommend that you think long and hard about the possible outcome if you did complain.

Also - you might be tempted to have a private talk with a professor or your program director about these issues. If you do, you should know that they have a legal obligation to report any complaints or observed incidents even if you ask for confidentiality.

Having been on the receiving end of a hostile environment situation many years ago, I think I understand how you feel. I held my head up as high as I could, did the best work I could, and watched the people involved get fired one by one for other reasons. Because when someone pulls that kind of thing, their ethics and behavior have a tendency to be lacking in other areas as well.

03-18-2011, 02:16 PM	#1
roseylovestosho Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: #4 PRIVET DRIVE Posts: 1,685	"I don't consider her a woman" I'm in a phD program where I am the only female in my entire class. To make a long story short we were having a meeting with the director of our program because recruitment week is coming up and she wanted ideas on how to improve the presentation of our program as to attract the new recruits to come to our school. In the middle of the meeting the director turned to me in front of everyone and said "Well, Rose you are the only woman in your class..." and I didn't even get to finish hearing what she said because the guy sitting next to me said "I don't know about you guys but I don't consider Rose a woman," and all of his friends laughed. I had to stop myself from crying. This is not the first time either, they're always making REALLY mean comments about me TO MY FACE. I've tried ignoring them, defending myself etc and nothing changes. I'm getting teary-eyed just thinking about it...I'm beyond sad... They've made fun of the way I talk, what I wear...my personality...the list goes on. The link below is a picture of me since I don't have any pictures of me on here and I think sometimes its easier to identify with people when you can actually see them...imo http://i53.tinypic.com/29wn98z.png What can I do?! __________________

03-18-2011, 02:23 PM	#2
linz06 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,154	I have to say you are a BEAUTIFUL woman! And the guys in your class must be inconsiderate jerks and very insecure with themselves to say things like that! Again, you are really gorgeous! They are probably just upset that you don't give them the time of day __________________ Lindsey and Layla, Lucy, and Kash

03-18-2011, 02:25 PM	#3
LaviniaHyacynth Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: montclair,nj Posts: 925	Hi Rose, First of all, Are they blind? You look like a beautiful young woman to me. Hold your head up as you have it all going for you....looks, brains, and a love for yorkies Seriously, consider the problem is your classmate's ignorance (you would think a Phd candidate would think before saying something so obviously sexist and stupid) and not you. Hugs, Kathryn __________________ Rest in peace my sweet angel dog, Lavinia Hyacynth, Vivi. I love you forever. Bear healed my broken heart!

03-18-2011, 02:30 PM	#4
winston2010 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Kentucky USA Posts: 170	hang in there when I was made manager of Information Services, that was part of shared computer system in Dayton Ohio I was the only woman around the table of 15. I stuck in their and when I left 35 years later it was about half and half. Some men are threatened by a woman with a brain. You hang in there, don't you let them get you down. I'll say a prayer for you because I know its hard being in a profession that is mostly men.

03-18-2011, 02:39 PM	#6
miabellaamoure ♥YORKIERESCUE.com♥ Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Menifee, CA Posts: 8,708	You are a beautiful young woman. Have you ever spoke out about how their comments offend you? If not, you NEED to...if not for yourself but, for the next woman they treat this way in their everyday lives. The good thing is...when you are done with your studies, you'll be done with them as well. __________________ Jo Ann Abby, Bella , Phoebe & Violette....

03-18-2011, 02:56 PM	#9
Princess10 Banning Queen Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Home of the Kalamazoo Wings, MI. Posts: 3,122	wow! that just boils my blood! you are beautiful and it's not just everyone jumping on the bandwagon! just like the others said: it's about insecurities it's about them wondering why you wont give them the time of day it's about their obvious caveman "thinking"...mentality is more accurate it's about them worrying about them being made out to look like the idiots they are by a woman it's about them prob thinking that beauty & brains can't come in one pkge i wish i was shocked, but thinking like this is all too common in our society still in 2011...ridiculous!!! that is beee essss, and i would be glad to tell them all about themselves, so you can keep your professional mannerisms like the professional lady you are!! __________________ For The Night Is Dark & Full Of Terriers

03-18-2011, 02:57 PM	#10
Princess10 Banning Queen Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Home of the Kalamazoo Wings, MI. Posts: 3,122	and furthermore, your looks should have nothing to do with it anyways!! __________________ For The Night Is Dark & Full Of Terriers

03-18-2011, 03:06 PM	#13
FlDebra Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FL Posts: 7,651	VERY strange! First I thought maybe they could have meant it as a compliment -- you know, just including you as "one of the guys" as I got similar comments when I was in the Navy. They were said with friendship. But since you said they have been doing this all along, I can't figure it. I agree with everyone here -- you are gorgeous and very feminine looking. My guess is you wound up with several who just enjoy finding a person's "BUTTON" and pushing it to the extreme. Hold your head high and know that you are both intelligent & beautiful. Those qualities will stay long after these cads have realized what idiots they have been. __________________ FlDebra and her ABCs Annie, Ben, Candy Promoting Healthy Breeding to the AKC Yorkshire Terrier Standard

03-18-2011, 03:11 PM	#15
boopster Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 1,643 Blog Entries: 1	I would have said "That's OK - because I don't consider you a man!" But then I have an unfortunate tendency to blurt out things like that when under pressure. I looked at your picture, and you are a beautiful young woman, so don't let anyone make you think otherwise. Sounds like you are in a program with some men who are immature and threatened by you. Other than gritting your teeth and living through this period, I don't know what you can do except work to outshine these jerks. There are sexual harrassment laws that apply to students. If your school is in the U.S., it is subject to Title IX of the education amendments of 1972, and they are subject to some nasty repercussions if they knowingly allow harassment to take place. Sexual harassment does not require the expectation of sexual activity. It can be as "simple" as the creation of a hostile environment based on your gender. The comment and laughter in front of your program director should have been enough in my mind to require that she take steps to stop it and/or report it. Your school is required to have a policy on sexual harassment and a procedure for reporting it. You will probably find that information in your student handbook. Retaliation against someone for reporting sexual harassment is illegal. Unfortunately, there are a lot of subtle ways of retaliating against someone that might not meet the standard of proof in court -- such as the silent treatment from your fellow students or extra scrutiny of your performance if evaluations are subjective. So as an outsider, I would recommend that you think long and hard about the possible outcome if you did complain. Also - you might be tempted to have a private talk with a professor or your program director about these issues. If you do, you should know that they have a legal obligation to report any complaints or observed incidents even if you ask for confidentiality. Having been on the receiving end of a hostile environment situation many years ago, I think I understand how you feel. I held my head up as high as I could, did the best work I could, and watched the people involved get fired one by one for other reasons. Because when someone pulls that kind of thing, their ethics and behavior have a tendency to be lacking in other areas as well.