Mel Gibson - the Mother of all Meltdowns

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by chachi

I agree also bipolar people dont want to slow down frfom the manic stages because they dont know any better untill they get on a medicine that regulates them untill then they think they are fine. That is another reason why its hard to get them help they almost have to hit rock bottom

You are right, they can't see what's happening, and that's why they think everyone else is nuts, or against them, and this often infuriates them. I hope this episode tells him he needs to be on medication, it really can make him a new man.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

He sounds like he needs treatment to me, and I haven't even heard the tapes.

You really need to listen to the tapes.


I truly believe to know all is to forgive all. Even abusers deserve compassion and treatment. If I were Mel's therapist, and had a full medical workup and insight into his psyche, yes, I'd want to understand him.

However, as someone who listens to a man repeatedly threaten to murder his wife - that's horrifying, and sadly as we know from experience, not necessarily an empty threat. Again, I'm happy this woman taped these conversations, whatever her motive, and whatever kind of person she is, because she sounds like she and her baby could be in danger. I don't care if she's everything Mel said she was. It's. Not. An. Excuse.

[chachi]

I didnt hear where he threatened to kill her but if he was in a severe manic stage it wouldnt surprise me that he said it. If he is bipolar like I heard he doesnt realize what he is saying and doing.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by chachi

I didnt hear where he threatened to kill her but if he was in a severe manic stage it wouldnt surprise me that he said it. If he is bipolar like I heard he doesnt realize what he is saying and doing.

He said something like he was going to put her in a rose garden and he could do it!

And I think there was another tape where he threatened to burn the house down (?), but I didn't listen to that one.

[nana911]

His father was extremely anti-semitic, that is documented. Mel has tried to downplay that for his career. Bipolar or not. Alcoholic or not. You can only blame so much on your mental state. I'm very sure she knew exactly what she was doing. She probably is a gold digger. Not absolving her at all. That is no way excuses the crap that comes out of his mouth. My short marriage between my 18yr marriage and my current 15yr marriage was to an abusive pyschotic, narcissistic abuser that I had committed. I no a little bit about what I'm talking about. I divorced him while I had him committed to the nuthouse. He was crazy on and off his meds. And he knew EXACTLY what he was saying and doing when he said it. In a lot of cases crazy as a fox is a pretty accurate statement.

[nana911]

I make a lot of jokes about that marriage, it lasted about 18wks. I married the wrong guy for the right reasons. I new he had issues, but didn't know just how bad they were until after the 'I do'. I had already been in law enforcement long enough to recognize the signs real quick. When I say I know about how good they can be when they are not being bad, I speak from experience..LOL I still miss the good side of him. Anyway, even his therapist did not think he was dangerous when I explained to her what was going on. I had to push his buttons in front of witnesses on the grounds of her medical office building in order to get someone to realize what was going on. It was at that point I was able to get an emergency commitment. They kept him long enough for me do what I had to do. Never saw him again. Point being. He could charm her when he needed to. And retaliate as soon as he was away from her and had me alone. I heard it took 7 orderlies to get him restrained to a gurney once he realized it was involuntary and he couldn't walk out. yeah, he could turn it on/off, but he was indeed mentally ill. No excuse for his abusive behavior. He used his illness as an excuse to abuse... a lot of them do.

I'll shut up now... sorry

[Disney]

People with mental illness can be abusive without mean it. I have, and I not a bad person. That said, I take all my medication and all my therapy.

It thin line, and their lot of variables. Everyone different. Until I know more, I fence sitting on this one.

[nana911]

Originally Posted by Disney

People with mental illness can be abusive without mean it. I have, and I not a bad person. That said, I take all my medication and all my therapy.

It thin line, and their lot of variables. Everyone different. Until I know more, I fence sitting on this one.

Hon, I said, "a lot of them do"... not all of them.

Problem is, 'some' of them will have actual episodes. They are terrible. But...then they get really angry, aren't getting their way, cross the line that civilized people don't cross and afterwards, blame it on an episode that they were NOT having. That is what I mean by turning it on/off.
Kinda hard for a doctor to know what to do or believe, or any of us...

[Disney]

Originally Posted by nana911

Hon, I said, "a lot of them do"... not all of them.

Problem is, 'some' of them will have actual episodes. They are terrible. But...then they get really angry, aren't getting their way, cross the line that civilized people don't cross and afterwards, blame it on an episode that they were NOT having. That is what I mean by turning it on/off.
Kinda hard for a doctor to know what to do or believe, or any of us...

Sorry, I mean to say some person do this, I don't believe all do. I think it become 'trendy' to be mentally ill. If people knew how much we suffer... >(

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Disney

Sorry, I mean to say some person do this, I don't believe all do. I think it become 'trendy' to be mentally ill. If people knew how much we suffer... >(

Hmmm, interesting. I'm not sure being mentally ill is "trendy". I actually think what is *more* trendy right now is "blame-shifting".

Take the Mel-Oksana case, for example -- late last week and since then, there has been a concerted effort to shift the blame back toward the victim (Oksana). In my opinion, Oksana is clearly a victim here (of emotional abuse and threats, at the very least, and quite possibly physical abuse). However, there has been a real effort (and rather sick effort) to shift "blame" back onto her.

Whether Mel is mentally ill or even if he has some brain damage from chronic alcohol abuse - it wouldn't excuse any behavior, it may only help explain the extremity of some of it. It wouldn't, however, change the intent of threat - nor whatever abuse has already occurred, ya know?

Malingering in mental illness is taken very seriously, especially in court - and it is extremely difficult to do here in the U.S. - so, even if someone tries to play this card, they will be evaluated at length before the claim would ever hold a shred of legal validity.

At this point, Oksana's motives for creating the tapes, in my opinion, are really a moot point - the real point right *now* is whether or not she and her child are truly safe...whether Mel Gibson is capable of harming them, or not.

[nana911]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

At this point, Oksana's motives for creating the tapes, in my opinion, are really a moot point - the real point right *now* is whether or not she and her child are truly safe...whether Mel Gibson is capable of harming them, or not.

Yep, it has become an accepted societal ill, passing the blame. Doesn't matter what her intent or reasons. That doesn't give him the right to retaliate with violence and threats of violence. It is indicative of how low our civilization has sunk morally, when someone can behave in that manner and we make excuses and sensationalize him, instead of being, as a body, sickened by him.

The Amish are onto something with that shunning thing....

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by nana911

Yep, it has become an accepted societal ill, passing the blame. Doesn't matter what her intent or reasons. That doesn't give him the right to retaliate with violence and threats of violence. It is indicative of how low our civilization has sunk morally, when someone can behave in that manner and we make excuses and sensationalize him, instead of being, as a body, sickened by him.

The Amish are onto something with that shunning thing....

For those of us who have worked with the mentally ill, believe me, they are shunned. I don't know if his diagnosis is correct, and I think it's ridiculous for anyone to accept this type of diagnosis so they can "excuse" their behavior. I'm just hoping that some of you may get a better idea of what mental illness is like, and being sickened by him does not really help those affected with the illness. Patty Duke wrote a book and she describes how bipolar illness affected her, and I'm sure at the time, no one would have any sympathy for her behavior, but the right medication and therapy can really turn their lives around, and their true persona can step forward. Again, mental illness is not an excuse, it's an explaination, and the people who suffer from it have no control over it, that's why medication is necessary.

Here's a list of some famous people said to be affected by bipolar illness; it's probably not all inclusive. Famous People with Bipolar Disorder

Famous People with Bipolar Disorder

Much of this list was obtained from the Internet.
Actors & Actresses
Ned Beatty
Maurice Bernard, soap opera
Jeremy Brett
Jim Carey
Lisa Nicole Carson
Rosemary Clooney, singer
Lindsay Crosby
Eric Douglas
Robert Downey Jr.
Patty Duke
Carrie Fisher
Connie Francis, singer and actress
Shecky Greene, comedian
Linda Hamilton
Moss Hart, actor, director, playright
Mariette Hartley
Margot Kidder
Vivien Leigh
Kevin McDonald, comedian
Kristy McNichols
Burgess Meredith, actor, director
Spike Milligan, actor, writer
Spike Mulligan, comic actor and writer
Nicola Pagett
Ben Stiller, actor, director, writer
David Strickland
Lili Taylor
Tracy Ullman
Jean-Claude Van Damme
Robin Williams
Jonathon Winters, comedian
Artists
Alvin Alley, dancer, choreogapher
Ludwig Von Beethoven
Tim Burton, artist, director
Francis Ford Coppola, director
George Fredrick Handel, composer
Bill Lichtenstein, producer
Joshua Logan, broadway director, producer
Vincent Van Gogh, painter
Gustav Mahier, composer
Francesco Scavullo, artist, photographer
Robert Schumann, composer
Don Simpson, movie producer
Norman Wexler, screenwriter, playwright
Entrepreneurs
Robert Campeau
Pierre Peladeau
Heinz C. Prechter
Ted Turner, media giant
Financiers
John Mulheren
Murray Pezim
Miscellaneous
Buzz Aldrin, astronaut
Clifford Beers, humanitarian
Garnet Coleman, legislator (Texas)
Larry Flynt, publisher and activist
Kit Gingrich, Newt's mom
Phil Graham, owner of Washington Post
Peter Gregg, team owner and manager, race car driver
Susan Panico (Susan Dime-Meenan), business executive
Sol Wachtier, former New York State Chief Judge
Musicians
Ludwig van Beethoven, composer
Alohe Jean Burke, musician, vocalist
Rosemary Clooney, singer
DMX Earl Simmons, rapper and actor
Ray Davies
Lenny Dee
Gaetano Donizetti, opera singer
Peter Gabriel
Jimi Hendrix
Kristen Hersh (Throwing Muses)
Phyllis Hyman
Jack Irons
Daniel Johnston
Otto Klemperer, musician, conductor
Oscar Levant, pianist, composer, television
Phil Ochs, musician, political activist, poet
John Ogden, composer, musician
Jaco Pastorius
Charley Pride
Mac Rebennack (Dr. John)
Jeannie C. Riley
Alys Robi, vocalist in Canada
Axl Rose
Nick Traina
Del Shannon
Phil Spector, musician and producer
Sting, Gordon Sumner, musician, composer
Tom Waits, musician, composer
Brian Wilson, musician, composer, arranger
Townes Van Zandt, musician, composer
Poets
John Berryman
C.E. Chaffin, writer, poet
Hart Crane
Randall Jarrell
Jane Kenyon
Robert Lowell
Sylvia Plath
Robert Schumann
Delmore Schwartz
Political
Robert Boorstin, special assistant to President Clinton
L. Brent Bozell, political scientist, attorney, writer
Bob Bullock, ex secretary of state, state comptroller and lieutenant governer
Winston Churchill
Kitty Dukasis, former First Lady of Massachusetts
Thomas Eagleton, lawyer, former U.S. Senator
Lynne Rivers, U.S. Congress
Theodore Roosevelt, President of the United States

Scholars
John Strugnell, biblical scholar
Scientists
Karl Paul Link, chemist
Dimitri Mihalas
Sports
Shelley Beattie, bodybuilding, sailing
John Daly, golf
Muffin Spencer-Devlin, pro golf
Ilie Nastase, tennis
Jimmy Piersail, baseball player, Boston Red Sox, sports announcer
Barret Robbins, football
Wyatt Sexton, football
Alonzo Spellman, football
Darryl Strawberry, baseball
Dimitrius Underwood, football
Luther Wright, basketball
Bert Yancey, athlete

TV & Radio
Dick Cavett
Jay Marvin, radio, writer
Jane Pauley
Writers
Louis Althusser, philosopher, writer
Honors de Balzac
Art Buchwald, writer, humorist
Neal Cassady
Patricia Cornwell
Margot Early
Kaye Gibbons
Johann Goethe
Graham Greene
Abbie Hoffman, writer, political activist
Kay Redfield Jamison, writer, psychologist
Peter Nolan Lawrence
Frances Lear, writer, editor, women's rights activist
Rika Lesser, writer, translator
Kate Millet
Robert Munsch
Margo Orum
Edgar Allen Poe
Theodore Roethke
Lori Schiller, writer, educator
Frances Sherwood
Scott Simmie, writer, journalist
August Strindberg
Mark Twain
Joseph Vasquez, writer, movie director
Mark Vonnegut, doctor, writer
Sol Wachtler, writer, judge
Mary Jane Ward
Virginia Woolf

[dogbert]

There is a difference in admitting you have it and using it as an excuse. I don't see to many people on that list that have done what Mel did. If so it sure didn't make the news. We do know someone who is Bipolar and without medication they can have scary, dangerous episodes.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by dogbert

There is a difference in admitting you have it and using it as an excuse. I don't see to many people on that list that have done what Mel did. If so it sure didn't make the news. We do know someone who is Bipolar and without medication they can have scary, dangerous episodes.

Most people do not want to admit they are bipolar, just like with most serious illnesses they go through stages of denial, anger, fear, hope, and acceptance. Until they reach acceptance, they often don't want to take their medication unless court ordered. Remember, the illness does not strike everyone the same way, but rage is very common, and now that technology allows people to so easily tape others maybe we'll see more of this type of behavior. Really, it's ok with me if you don't like him, it just when someone said he had been earlier diagnosed with bipolar, I just thought it was interesting, and that explained a lot. Lol, he may be bipolar and an a-hole!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Really, it's ok with me if you don't like him, it just when someone said he had been earlier diagnosed with bipolar, I just thought it was interesting, and that explained a lot. Lol, he may be bipolar and an a-hole!

I think your professional diagnosis of a-hole may be extremely accurate, my friend !

No, in all seriousness....here's what's bothering me about the mental illness slant of this whole situation. Having worked with those who are mentally ill (like Nancy has as well) - I've worked w/ chronically schizophrenic adults (and children), bipolar (aka manic-depressives, using old terms), major depression, personality disorders, dually-diagnosed adults etcetera...

Of all the bipolars I've encountered, during their "manic" stage, they are often in a state of euphoric energy - where they work on projects for days on end, may spend loads of money, may keep going and going without sleep. I have rarely, if ever, witnessed a bipolar person in a state of rage and threats. If there is a concurrent stage of continued rage - there is something else going on in addition to bipolar disorder.

So, what's bothering me is that the media seems yet again to be misrepresenting what being Bipolar Disorder is -- being bipolar has almost nothing to with rage, actually. An outburst, sure, but not really "rage" and threats. Rather, it ranges btwn being euphorically happy and being horribly depressed.

(so...Mel may have more going on than just bipolar, is what I'm saying...)