Question - Out of Curiosity.....

[YorkieShadow]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Why???...rescues work very, very hard to place animals that the breeders could have cared less about...Stop bashing rescue and start bashing the breeders that place these dogs into these homes or won't take them back. As far as I am concerned it is 99% of the breeders fault. They made the profit off of the dogs.

I don't think she was trying to bash rescues.

I do believe alot of these breeder dogs end up in shelters/ rescues.
BYB use their dogs to make money off them but when their to old to make litters they don't seem to care where they go or how their health is.. many have never had the life that our Yorkies have. they are used and then tossed out. same with the mills. it makes me ill to think about it all. when one does get saved they know what one has done for them you can see it in their eyes.

I know I once got jumped on for helping a breeders dogs try and find good homes. I didnt do it for the breeder but for the dogs. but sadly there was just to many that I couldn't find homes for all at once. so thats where a rescue came into the picture. they could do it , while I could only take one in at a time, they could handle them all at once, they screen do background checks often visiting the adopters. there's a lot of hard work in finding these babies forever good homes. they make sure they have vet care before leaving. shots spayed/neutered etc...
I have 2 rescues now I cant place them in a good home because the people who have wanted them . well its just was never a good match. these two have already had very hard lifes. theres noway I would ever just let just anyone have them. for I know if I did they would be homeless once again. so if I never find a good home for them they will stay right here with us. theres no other choice for I wont let them go to a shelter.


Shelters and rescues are totally two different things. they both take animals in but a rescue screens and makes sure its the best place to put this baby. they dont want them ending back up homeless and back in a shelter.
a shelter will take these dogs in but they adopted out to any one and normally do no screening so most of those dogs do end up right back at the shelters.

[YorkieShadow]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

So sad and I think every breeder in this country should have to spend time in the pounds and see the piles of dead animals...

I agree. The last time I was at a kill shelter I was trying to find the man who worked there when I opened the wrong door and there was a pile of dead dogs wall to wall and chest high. I was shocked and thats some thing I will never get out of my head.

[livingdustmops]

In my opinion when someone helps a breeder find homes from their used up dogs then they are brokers. A breeder should never have more dogs then they can find homes for or else they should have to keep them and not keep having more puppies to make $$$$. These are living creatures and are not product that goes on sale when it is used up...GREEDERS NEED TO STOP WITH THE VOLUME OF DOGS THEY ARE PRODUCING!

It is heartbreaking for sure but the problem will continue when these greeders get more room for the next patch of dogs. We cannot save them all and unless people start demanding changes in the law then no matter what anyone does this will go on and we will continue to euthanize millions of animals.

Originally Posted by YorkieShadow

I don't think she was trying to bash rescues.

I do believe alot of these breeder dogs end up in shelters/ rescues.
BYB use their dogs to make money off them but when their to old to make litters they don't seem to care where they go or how their health is.. many have never had the life that our Yorkies have. they are used and then tossed out. same with the mills. it makes me ill to think about it all. when one does get saved they know what one has done for them you can see it in their eyes.

I know I once got jumped on for helping a breeders dogs try and find good homes. I didnt do it for the breeder but for the dogs. but sadly there was just to many that I couldn't find homes for all at once. so thats where a rescue came into the picture. they could do it , while I could only take one in at a time, they could handle them all at once, they screen do background checks often visiting the adopters. there's a lot of hard work in finding these babies forever good homes. they make sure they have vet care before leaving. shots spayed/neutered etc...
I have 2 rescues now I cant place them in a good home because the people who have wanted them . well its just was never a good match. these two have already had very hard lifes. theres noway I would ever just let just anyone have them. for I know if I did they would be homeless once again. so if I never find a good home for them they will stay right here with us. theres no other choice for I wont let them go to a shelter.


Shelters and rescues are totally two different things. they both take animals in but a rescue screens and makes sure its the best place to put this baby. they dont want them ending back up homeless and back in a shelter.
a shelter will take these dogs in but they adopted out to any one and normally do no screening so most of those dogs do end up right back at the shelters.

[straightsilk]

Originally Posted by red98vett

I've been here a long time and leaned alot just from being online about certain things - One thing is the big shelter problem. I knew it was bad but never knew it is as bad as it really is. And it is BAD.

My girls are older ....back when I looked for a yorkie I never even considered rescue - I didn't know I COULD consider it. People weren't mass breeding yorkies then.....

As a kid all my pets were shelters/strays but lately I've really thought about what I would do IF I were ever to get another dog. (I'm not) BUT - my decision would be.

I would get a rescue. I would never 'purchase' another pet.

I almost feel guilty for 'buying' my girls. I CHOOSE the yorkie breed and back then - they weren't in shelters like now - as with many other small breeds - they're now in shelters and maybe saved before a larger dog... but still there none the less .....and it really SUCKS.

There are so many dogs needing homes.....it's always been this way...the problem is just growing and growing with no end in site.

It's horrible to think of the thousands of great dogs killed everyday because so many freakin people are breeding due to the money they make.

What would you do ? IF faced with a decision to add another pet to your family - (yorkie or otherwise) ..............would you buy or SAVE ?

I will always support responsible breeders and if I ever add another dog to my home, it will be a puppy purchased from a breeder.

"Saving" dogs from the shelter only supports irresponsible breeders who allowed their puppies to end up there. I support responsible owner/breeder education and free spay/neuter programs. I support purebred dog breeders. I thank God for them.

This "savior" mentality hasn't helped reduce the numbers of unwanted dogs in this country. Spay/neuter programs work. Make it easy and cheap. Support it with your tax dollars.

Flame suit on.

[MeganS]

Originally Posted by straightsilk

I will always support responsible breeders and if I ever add another dog to my home, it will be a puppy purchased from a breeder.

"Saving" dogs from the shelter only supports irresponsible breeders who allowed their puppies to end up there. I support responsible owner/breeder education and free spay/neuter programs. I support purebred dog breeders. I thank God for them.

This "savior" mentality hasn't helped reduce the numbers of unwanted dogs in this country. Spay/neuter programs work. Make it easy and cheap. Support it with your tax dollars.

Flame suit on.

wait a second...what are you talking about??? Saving dogs from shelters only supports breeders?

Saving a dog from the rescue supports the RESCUE so they can SAVE more dogs from the irresponsible breeders - no money is exchanging hands between the breeders and the rescues. It also saves dogs from going to the pound where they will more than likely be put to sleep!

That is probably one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard!

[straightsilk]

Originally Posted by MeganS

wait a second...what are you talking about??? Saving dogs from shelters only supports breeders?

Saving a dog from the rescue supports the RESCUE so they can SAVE more dogs from the irresponsible breeders - no money is exchanging hands between the breeders and the rescues. It also saves dogs from going to the pound where they will more than likely be put to sleep!

That is probably one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard!

Sweet.

Where do shelter/rescue dogs come from???? They are born somewhere. A responsible breeder only breeds when there are homes available and then offers to take the puppy back for a lifetime.

Irresponsible breeders don't take their puppies back, do they? If they did, they wouldn't be in shelters.

Dogs are most often surrendered for behavior problems. Responsible breeders raise well-socialized puppies, place them appropriately and offer guidance and advice.

There are legitimate reasons to surrender a dog to rescue. But 95% of the time, the breeders are to blame. The irresponsible breeders.

Edited to add: I wasn't suggesting that any money changes hands between the breeder and rescue, but since you mentioned it, yes, rescue is big business. There's a ton of money changing hands. Mostly coming from sincere animal lovers in the form of donations to greedy, politically motivated, radical agenda'd groups. They use that money to pass more and more restrictive laws on responsible breeders and feed the machine that's pumping out "rescue" dogs.

[Nancy1999]

I hope no one feels guilty for buying a puppy through a responsible breeder who is not breeding for money and truly is breeding to improve the breed. I also love it when people get rescue dogs, I do not think it is enabling bad breeders, they don't care if the dog is put to death, and by offering the dogs a home, we are prevent that. These are personal decisions, and I hope we could support each other with both of those choices. I find it hard to support those who knowingly support poor breeders, and reward them with money.

Let me also add that many YTCA members support rescues, so it's not just "politically motivated, radical agenda'd groups" who are supporting rescues.

[red98vett]

Straightsilk - I'm hoping it was only my wording that confused you.... but disagree with this statement :

Saving" dogs from the shelter only supports irresponsible breeders who allowed their puppies to end up there.

I DO support good breeders - without them we wouldn't have the beautiful dogs most all of us have in our lives....my point was mostly focusing on the huge shelter problem we have and it was just my personal feelings .....there are way too many breeding (yorkies and other breeds)

I DO think lots of dogs ARE ending up in shelters because of the many people breeding now. They want a sale and that's the end of that - My own Breeder was a prime example of that and back then - I knew no better...

I'm not in any way talking about ethical breeders who ensure their dogs go to good homes - but those out to make a fast buck - and there are lots of those but that by no means is saying someone is supporting bad breeding ! It's saving a dog sitting in JAIL by no fault of their own

Just look at the section on this site for Rescues and rehoming - there are yorkies listed every single day - they're from breeders ! Where else would they come from ?

You don't see yorkies roaming the streets like you may with other breeds so I don't think that's why so many are in shelters - I think it's because people are selling to anyone and don't care where their puppies end up - and yes....people who don't spay.neuter are also a problem - add the strays, run-aways and dumped dogs and we are never going to see our shelters empty.....

I was just curious where the thread would go and I applaud those who are involved in rescue and also - the good breeders. But they are few and far between these days. Everyone should support those that put their lives into breeding but it's been my observation - there are so so many selling dogs now (especially with the net) that are doing it for the $$$ only.

[QuickSilver]

I think one of the issues is that rescues, like breeders, come in at all levels of quality. Some are great, and some are not.

I think that at the very least, a rescue should be able to do a basic temperament assessment on a dog, and be able to tell people if/what issues the dogs have, whether they will be good with kids, other dogs, etc. This shouldn't be something the adopter has to find out about on their own.

Placement is very difficult. The rescue I volunteer at has very few fixed rules AND very few returns, so that appears to be the best of both worlds. My guess is it works because:

- The rescue requires that all pets and prospective family members meet the dog first.

- The rescue assesses temperament before the dogs come in, and generally only takes dogs with mild or no problems. If there are problems, the staff will work for as long as it takes to get the dog ready to be a good pet. The rescue has a cheat sheet on every dog listing:

- If it's good with kids.
- How much exercise it needs.
- How much physical affection it enjoys.
- How much attention it needs.
- If it can live with other dogs, cats, or other pets.
- What kind of family atmosphere would be best - a lively, active family, or a calm, low-key one.
- How much formal training it's had.

- It's a popular, well-known place, so there are usually a lot of applications for every dog.


Which brings me to my next point, hopefully not heresy on YT ... maybe your next dog doesn't have to be a yorkie. I know I want Thor to get a sibling when he's ready, and I will probably get a dachshund because he gets along well with them. I've been told that a lot of dachshunds end up in rescues because they are adorable puppies and yappy little adults. I'm prepared to do some rehab work.

However, in terms of getting what kind of dog you expect in terms of size, playfulness, obedience, socialization, maybe rather than focusing on the breed, you can find a rescue that will tell you these things up front. This is also the benefit of adopting an adult - you'll have a better idea of what you're getting.

Also wanted to say, this rescue usually gets their dogs from high-kill shelters around the area, and it really is a crap shoot if a dog ends up in a shelter or not. You would never believe these dogs were "shelter dogs" if you saw them out and about.

[MeganS]

Originally Posted by straightsilk

Sweet.

Where do shelter/rescue dogs come from???? They are born somewhere. A responsible breeder only breeds when there are homes available and then offers to take the puppy back for a lifetime.

Irresponsible breeders don't take their puppies back, do they? If they did, they wouldn't be in shelters.

Dogs are most often surrendered for behavior problems. Responsible breeders raise well-socialized puppies, place them appropriately and offer guidance and advice.

There are legitimate reasons to surrender a dog to rescue. But 95% of the time, the breeders are to blame. The irresponsible breeders.

Edited to add: I wasn't suggesting that any money changes hands between the breeder and rescue, but since you mentioned it, yes, rescue is big business. There's a ton of money changing hands. Mostly coming from sincere animal lovers in the form of donations to greedy, politically motivated, radical agenda'd groups. They use that money to pass more and more restrictive laws on responsible breeders and feed the machine that's pumping out "rescue" dogs.

But you said that it just supports irresponsible breeders? That comment just makes NO sense at all. That's the kind of thing you say about a pet store - where puppy mills sell puppies to pet stores, and then when the puppies are sold they breed/send more. Adopting a dog from a rescue does not support an irresponsible breeder. I just don't get your thinking behind that.

[pancakepat]

I've read some of these posts. Good topic. Put me on a roller coaster of emotion. I adopt "only".
I really thought everyone heard of puppy mills, wrong. Took grandson for hair cut yesterday. Had my little adopted yorkie w/me. The girl asked about her, so I told her she was rescued from puppy mill. You guessed it! Her question was, "What's a puppy mill?" Let me tell you, I went into detail of the horrors these little babies go through. Then I told her to inform yourself & pass the word.
One most important thing we can do right now, from the comfort of our home..........
Call our congressmen & senators.......TODAY
Then Call.... AGAIN....&...AGAIN....&....AGAIN
Put their numbers on "speed dial"!
Keep conversation short & to the point or they'll tune you out. Been there, done this, & still doing it. Could use some help. More phone calls.....more gets done.

Something that Patti said "really" struck home w/me.
Said, "After awhile you see the anxiety turn to resignation." This is SOOOO true. My little girl was already past the resignation stage. Think the next emotional step for her was, "I can't go on...... I'm ready to die." She wouldn't even lift her head from the wire cage. When I took her outside, she just stood in 1 spot. She looked like an upside down U. Head down/rearend down. Have you ever seen an animal w/kennel stare? Heartbreaking....their looking into nothingness. How could anyone choose buying over rescue/adopting is beyond me. So they have health issues! How much do you pay a breeder? What I've read, it could be anywhere from $400 to $4000.
Can't begin to describe the feelings you get when seeing these little babies changing. They litterly come alive. My little Tabitha has. And she's still changing. Everyday to her is a new day. She's only one reason I KEEP making my phone calls (& e-mails).

[straightsilk]

Originally Posted by red98vett

Straightsilk - I'm hoping it was only my wording that confused you.... but disagree with this statement :

I DO support good breeders - without them we wouldn't have the beautiful dogs most all of us have in our lives....my point was mostly focusing on the huge shelter problem we have and it was just my personal feelings .....there are way too many breeding (yorkies and other breeds)

I DO think lots of dogs ARE ending up in shelters because of the many people breeding now. They want a sale and that's the end of that - My own Breeder was a prime example of that and back then - I knew no better...

I'm not in any way talking about ethical breeders who ensure their dogs go to good homes - but those out to make a fast buck - and there are lots of those but that by no means is saying someone is supporting bad breeding ! It's saving a dog sitting in JAIL by no fault of their own

Just look at the section on this site for Rescues and rehoming - there are yorkies listed every single day - they're from breeders ! Where else would they come from ?

You don't see yorkies roaming the streets like you may with other breeds so I don't think that's why so many are in shelters - I think it's because people are selling to anyone and don't care where their puppies end up - and yes....people who don't spay.neuter are also a problem - add the strays, run-aways and dumped dogs and we are never going to see our shelters empty.....

I was just curious where the thread would go and I applaud those who are involved in rescue and also - the good breeders. But they are few and far between these days. Everyone should support those that put their lives into breeding but it's been my observation - there are so so many selling dogs now (especially with the net) that are doing it for the $$$ only.

No, I'm not "confused".

This subject is not complicated. Spay and neuter should be FREE. We should pay for it with our tax dollars. This and community education about the responsibilities of dog ownership can eliminate the problem. It works. It has been demonstrated in many communities.

Unfortunately, this approach does not garner contributions for radical animal groups. The more emotional approach appealing to the "savior" mentality does.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by straightsilk

No, I'm not "confused".

This subject is not complicated. Spay and neuter should be FREE. We should pay for it with our tax dollars. This and community education about the responsibilities of dog ownership can eliminate the problem. It works. It has been demonstrated in many communities.

Unfortunately, this approach does not garner contributions for radical animal groups. The more emotional approach appealing to the "savior" mentality does.

? I'm sure many animal rights groups are in favor of free spay/neuter.

straightsilk, can you post some facts to back up your claims? I'd be interested to see where free s/n has been implemented, and what the effects have been. Thanks.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

? I'm sure many animal rights groups are in favor of free spay/neuter.

straightsilk, can you post some facts to back up your claims? I'd be interested to see where free s/n has been implemented, and what the effects have been. Thanks.

I know that all animal rights groups would love it....IF it worked. Sadly people have so many excuses for breeding and never once have I had one tell me it was because he/she could not afford the spay.

I have gotten these answers:

I wanted another puppy just like my SusieQ

I wanted my children to see the miracle of birth.

Oh..there are others, but those two are enough for now.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by straightsilk

There are legitimate reasons to surrender a dog to rescue. But 95% of the time, the breeders are to blame. The irresponsible breeders.

Edited to add: I wasn't suggesting that any money changes hands between the breeder and rescue, but since you mentioned it, yes, rescue is big business. There's a ton of money changing hands. Mostly coming from sincere animal lovers in the form of donations to greedy, politically motivated, radical agenda'd groups. They use that money to pass more and more restrictive laws on responsible breeders and feed the machine that's pumping out "rescue" dogs.

I can tell you that YHR has never used money donated to care for pups to pass ANY laws against breeders or ANY laws at ALL.

I don't know ANY rescue that has done that and I do know a lot.

I think before you make such claims, you need to get a list of rescue groups and then go to www.guidestar.org and take a look at their 990s to see how much they use to "feed the machine that's pumping out rescue dogs".

Not thinking you are very well informed about what rescues *really* do. We never have a profit...EVER...we bust our backsides to get the veterinary bills paid for the pups that have been abandoned and/or neglected and/or abused. I can tell you that our members often lay out thousands of dollars and then hope to recoup it. We have a very dedicated group that does everything we can to help as many pups as we can.

You are right about reputable breeders not being the problem, but don't blame rescues for what the disreputable breeders are doing.