Question - Out of Curiosity..... - Page 5 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Maximo · 02-05-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

If a small breeder thought that was going to be a huge risk, they should quit breeding. Honestly, they should select homes carefully, and maybe do some health testing. We need to find a way to stop killing millions of dogs. I know people say it's wrong to "cull" puppies, but that's what we are really doing with dogs, breeding them haphazardly, and killing all the ones that aren't healthy or cute enough. This just seems so wrong to me.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that something needs to be done, but penalizing breeders if a dog ends up in a shelter might have the unintended effect of bolstering mass-producers who will happily pay fines or find a way to get exempted while discouraging small hobby breeders who don't have $$ to risk fines -- no matter how carefully they screen buyers, there is a risk of getting burned, and all it would take is one bad case.

livingdustmops · 02-05-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximo

I wholeheartedly agree with you that something needs to be done, but penalizing breeders if a dog ends up in a shelter might have the unintended effect of bolstering mass-producers who will happily pay fines or find a way to get exempted while discouraging small hobby breeders who don't have $$ to risk fines -- no matter how carefully they screen buyers, there is a risk of getting burned, and all it would take is one bad case.

Actually many of the mass producers sell to the petshops and they would be the ones hit with the fines...and the amount could go up based on how many of their dogs end up in the shelters or they are not allowed to sell dogs...

Don't get to buried into the small breeder...unless they are willing to take the dogs back then they should not be breeding either.

Maximo · 02-05-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Actually many of the mass producers sell to the petshops and they would be the ones hit with the fines...and the amount could go up based on how many of their dogs end up in the shelters or they are not allowed to sell dogs...

Don't get to buried into the small breeder...unless they are willing to take the dogs back then they should not be breeding either.

I like the idea of fines being graduated for the number of dogs ending up in shelters.

Relative to the small breeders, I believe it was Nancy who pointed out that a good breeder requires by contract that the dog be returned to the breeder if the owner cannot take care of it or wanted it rehomed-- hmmm, maybe the contract could be the protection for the small breeder if the one bad egg buyer takes the dog to the shelter or dumps the dog.

Nancy1999 · 02-05-2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximo

I wholeheartedly agree with you that something needs to be done, but penalizing breeders if a dog ends up in a shelter might have the unintended effect of bolstering mass-producers who will happily pay fines or find a way to get exempted while discouraging small hobby breeders who don't have $$ to risk fines -- no matter how carefully they screen buyers, there is a risk of getting burned, and all it would take is one bad case.

I hear that excuse a lot, it won't hurt the miller, but it will hurt the small home breeder. In this case, I believe that the small home breeder is a large part of the problem. People need to learn that breeding comes with responsibilities, and some of those are financial. If the breeder cannot afford to pay the cost of putting the dog to sleep, he should not be breeding. Maybe if some of the byb understood how many of their own dogs ended up in shelters, they might rethink their "breeding program."

Mardelin · 02-05-2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximo

Although I like the ideas proposed in several posts, keep in mind the cost of the administration to oversee programs and enforce laws and regulations. The cynic in me also worries that unscrupulous breeders would find their way around the system, while small hobby breeders would suffer or quit because it wouldn't be worth the risk.

Now there is a National Database for this in place.

Yes, it costs for the administration, managing and enforcing said regulations that aren't working today.

A system was put into place in a region in Canada that is working. Rescues are being returned to their owners, no kill shelters, shelter is pretty much empty. They came down and gave a presentation to Los Angeles officials and they opted not to use it.

livingdustmops · 02-05-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximo

I like the idea of fines being graduated for the number of dogs ending up in shelters.

Relative to the small breeders, I believe it was Nancy who pointed out that a good breeder requires by contract that the dog be returned to the breeder if the owner cannot take care of it or wanted it rehomed-- hmmm, maybe the contract could be the protection for the small breeder if the one bad egg buyer takes the dog to the shelter or dumps the dog.

Yes, a reputable breeder will take the dogs back but they have to be willing to go after the people who don't return the dogs and sue them. I have seen many not do this...It is all talk..and looks good. I just don't think we have that many reputable breeders in the U.S. I think we have people who love the dogs but just aren't educated about what goes on and doesn't follow up with their dogs for years...the old "no news is good news" thing. If they thought they would get fined I think they would pay attention and really come up with great ways to stop what is going on in our shelters.

I think it is great to have discussion about how do we fix this mess.

livingdustmops · 02-05-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Now there is a National Database for this in place.

Yes, it costs for the administration, managing and enforcing said regulations that aren't working today.

A system was put into place in a region in Canada that is working. Rescues are being returned to their owners, no kill shelters, shelter is pretty much empty. They came down and gave a presentation to Los Angeles officials and they opted not to use it.

Wow, do you remember the region...I would love to learn more about this...

Nancy1999 · 02-05-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximo

I like the idea of fines being graduated for the number of dogs ending up in shelters.

Relative to the small breeders, I believe it was Nancy who pointed out that a good breeder requires by contract that the dog be returned to the breeder if the owner cannot take care of it or wanted it rehomed-- hmmm, maybe the contract could be the protection for the small breeder if the one bad egg buyer takes the dog to the shelter or dumps the dog.

Yes, that's a great thought, I think the contract would enable them to show that they were willing to take the dog back, and rehome it if necessary.

Maximo · 02-05-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I hear that excuse a lot, it won't hurt the miller, but it will hurt the small home breeder. In this case, I believe that the small home breeder is a large part of the problem. People need to learn that breeding comes with responsibilities, and some of those are financial. If the breeder cannot afford to pay the cost of putting the dog to sleep, he should not be breeding. Maybe if some of the byb understood how many of their own dogs ended up in shelters, they might rethink their "breeding program."

I should clarify that I'm not including bybs when I say "small breeders." My definition of small breeder is the hobby breeders, the fanciers of the breeds who strive to uphold the standards, the exhibitors. (forgive me if I'm messing up the nomenclature)

I oppose backyard breeders and people who breed their pets (unless they keep the offspring themselves).

Maximo · 02-05-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Now there is a National Database for this in place.

Yes, it costs for the administration, managing and enforcing said regulations that aren't working today.

A system was put into place in a region in Canada that is working. Rescues are being returned to their owners, no kill shelters, shelter is pretty much empty. They came down and gave a presentation to Los Angeles officials and they opted not to use it.

I would like to learn more about this as well. Why did LA reject it?

Maximo · 02-05-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximo

I oppose backyard breeders and people who breed their pets (unless they keep the offspring themselves).

I take that back, I don't think people should breed their pets -- because of all the reasons that Nancy, experienced YT breeders, and others are going to try to discourage people who are thinking about doing it.

ladyjane · 02-05-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiePiper

I know that if I was to get another dog it would be a Yorkie. It is really hard to get the the Yorkies or any other breed from the rescues. My sister wanted another Cairn for a playment for her Vegas. She went through Pet Finder and was able to locate a quite a few rescues. She applied filled out many forms gave her references (which each person was contacted) had phone interviews, house study (someone came to check out home and existing pets). When she selected a Cairn she wanted to rescue the dog was brought to her home to see how he would fit in. My sister did end up with her rescue and has had him for 3 years. He came with a lot of problems since he was a puppy mill breeder and had been crated gor 4 years but now is a great pet and a perfect companion for her dog. She saids it was a lot of work but worth while. Even though I have owned dogs my whole life and a Yorkies for the past 15 years I don't think I would be able to get a dog through a rescue because my yard is not fenced in. We have 5 acres on a country road. My yorkie never runs loose. I have a pen for her or she's on a leash. That wouldn't matter to the rescue. Your yard has to be fenced in. Why do they make it so difficult to rescue when there are alot of good people and good homes out there?

Who told you that you MUST have a fenced in yard to adopt? We have adopted countless pups to people without fenced in yards!

Rescues, if they are placing pups the way I believe should be done, look at the whole picture.

What people really need to be aware of is that the needs of the pup should always come first. We spend time evaluating the pups before we adopt them out. Some yorkies are runners, some stick to you like glue...each one is different with his/her own needs. While one pup may not need a yard to run and play in and would be content with leash walking, another may want to run and play in a backyard.

ladyjane · 02-05-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I agree, I think a lot of good potential rescuers rare turned down. I understand why they are strict but one set of rules does not fit everyone.

I have seen this remark from you before and I honestly think you might be more effective focusing on the breeders who keep pumping these poor little babies out and selling them to just anyone with a buck.

Rescues are strict...and you say you understand; yet it does not seem to me that you do. You really are not correct when you say there is one set of rules. I have told you this before, but you somehow don't seem to understand it. I cannot even begin to tell you what an agonizing, time consuming job it is to find the right home for each pup.....we put a lot of time and love into these darling pups who have been through hell in many cases and NOT because they were poorly placed by a rescue....and we don't want them ever to be in another bad place.

While I can only speak for how I adopt a pup out, I know that many rescuers do exactly as I do...always looking at the needs of the pup first. We are the ones who are saving pups from places where they ended up because they were sold to the wrong people in the first place. I have rarely had a pup come to me that was poorly placed by a rescuer. It is more often one that was purchased from a breeder.

So, perhaps you need to refocus a bit on where the problem begins. It is not with rescue.

Cha Cha · 02-05-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Who told you that you MUST have a fenced in yard to adopt? We have adopted countless pups to people without fenced in yards!

Rescues, if they are placing pups the way I believe should be done, look at the whole picture.

What people really need to be aware of is that the needs of the pup should always come first. We spend time evaluating the pups before we adopt them out. Some yorkies are runners, some stick to you like glue...each one is different with his/her own needs. While one pup may not need a yard to run and play in and would be content with leash walking, another may want to run and play in a backyard.

I was denied a rescue dog because I did not have a fenced in yard. I have also been denied because I already had a another dog (different time). I firmly believe that it is not always the best interest of the dog (animal) at heart at some shelters!