Hindsight is 20/20...Katrina

[jennifermcb]

Originally Posted by centralnewyorki

Actual, Elizabeth, I'm quite sure he did have knowledge of this. (As did Bill Clinton and Bush, Sr., and apparently others before them) As I earlier posted in another thread, Bush used the money meant to repair the levees to build a bridge in Alaska. (I may not be accurate on this point, but can double check the article in the NYT if needed), but I believe that money came from the Homeland Security fund. All three of the most recent presidents had knowledge of the state of this levee. Greta Van Susteren with Fox News questioned each of the former presidents about this at a press conference or meeting earlier this week. (As you can imagine- neither was too willing to talk about the subject!)

I have read, but don't quote me , that all the Presidents since Nixon have had requests and opportunities to fund a new levy in NO, but chose to do otherwise. I have no source, but I will do some research.

[centralnewyorki]

Please let me know if you find differently. However, being a national newspaper, I'm sure that representatives for the current and each of the former presidents would be quick to clear up any statements so serious. I'm sure that there is a clipping service or person specifically watching that newspaper.

[DomLee]

There are numerous problems...

The levee was a known problem. The design was flawed and there have always been awareness of the problem. However, no one funded the re-engineering of the levee to be safe. So this is one problem that was ignored.

The ones who need rescuing in New Orleans right now. The majority of those people are the ones that DID NOT leave New Orleans when the authorities advised them to do so. Those are the ones who stayed behind, as if the could fend off Mother Nature. So these people are a pissed because of the damage, and they are now irrate. These are the same people saying that they need help and are looting. But these are the same people who decided to stay...

President Bush knew that the hurricane hit on Monday. He was on vacation at the time. We all know that the President gets daily security briefings, but he also gets informed of emergencies 24/7. As the President, you are essentially working 24/7. Now, from a PR standpoint,...he may have been "working" on the situation since Monday, BUT...he was only "SEEN to be headed back to Washington" on Wednesday. I understand that the President has a mobile working office and can even work aboard Air Force One. But his public image regarding his sense of urgency to the issue is not good.

I understand that the President can only do so much. He is not the person who actually handles the distibution of food/water/aid to disaster victims. HOWEVER, he is the one we all turn to in times of need. It may be trivial, but he should've held a press conference immediately to say that he was looking into the situation.

Now, when he did visit New Orleans...he was seen talking to a few survivors. From my understanding, this was a total PR move. The aid/relief stations were set up a few hours before the "event", only to be taken down when the "event" was over. I believe this stuff happens all the time. It doesn't surprise me one bit. Unfortunately...the very fact that people know this was staged is not a good thing.

(Just as a side note: It is actually quite upsetting to me that the President's security advisors did not stress just how much damage had occured in New Orleans. What if we were attacked by terrorists again? Would we get a relative "slow" response again like in this situation?)

Listen to this, politicians thanking each other...
http://www.worldwidechang.com/Vids/A...eu-Katrina.mov
I don't see the need for her to be thanking politicians on public TV. If anything, she could've just said that she wants to thank all those who are involved. Not sure why she was so specific w/ thanking people (and for quite an amount of time in her interview).

There is some criticism in regards to foreign aid. Some countries have planes w/ food/water waiting on runways for the green light to go, but since the US hasn't told them WHERE to go...they are sitting. On the flip side of the coin, a number of countries have just been given instructions to go. The concern is that the US doesn't want to arbitrarily accept aid all at once, only to have unused aid sitting/rotting.

It is quite a task to organize a full scale evacuation. And it is quite an undertaking trying to organize the aid that is coming in.

Lots and lots of problems. Answers are not always that simple.

[LoveMyBaby]

Originally Posted by eensor

his own sister-in-law is Hispanic.

im so sorry to say this but SO WHAT... just b/c "HIS SISTER IN LAW IS LATINA" doesnt mean he can know or understand or sympathize with any of the discrimination, suffering and the like that US LATINOS face DAY TO DAY...
its very unfortunate how some LATINOS are whorped in bush's thinking and the way he thinks is the correct manner of running this country..

eensor nothing against you

[txshopper73]

believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. do you honestly believe that the media has been totally unbiased and have not taken sides? the media has bashed Bush since his election. But of course, anti-bush supporters don't see it that way. They're just "reporting the truth"

[goldcupmom]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.

Well said!!!

Yesterday there was a long segment on CNN how Bush gave the order to SHOOT any BLACKS seen in NO. And that he and his advisors met, discussed that NO was 68% black and then decided they didn't need to do anything.

That is ridiculous, and these 'reporters' were being given credible air time on CNN.

Mistakes were made, by many, just as I'm sure mistakes were made after the OKC bombing and 9/11, in how/when the response was handled. We are all only human.

Mitigating the damages and focusing on restoring life to those who survived is what is now important. Not casting stones.

[centralnewyorki]

Originally Posted by LoveMyBaby

im so sorry to say this but SO WHAT... just b/c "HIS SISTER IN LAW IS LATINA" doesnt mean he can know or understand or sympathize with any of the discrimination, suffering and the like that US LATINOS face DAY TO DAY...
its very unfortunate how some LATINOS are whorped in bush's thinking and the way he thinks is the correct manner of running this country..

eensor nothing against you

LOL! I didn't even see that quote! It's not like he picked her!

I don't understand when people say the media is just bashing bush and most of what they report is biased. I'm not a fan of Bush, but am all about getting the truth in subjects. If I don't get my information from the media- where should I turn to find "the truth"? This isn't meant to sound rude, but where is everyone else getting their information from? I've taken goverment courses in college and my professors didn't give us alternative sources of information.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by eensor

Bill O'Reilly and Hannity and Colmes were the sources for the info on Bush's having contacted the governor. I didn't say the mayor turned away buses, I said that the city buses weren't used to evacuate the citizens who didn't have cars or any other way out. Part of the existing city plan for evacuation included using city buses and school buses to evacuate the city.

These "sources" as you refer to them are proven liars. They are not "journalists". They are entertainers!! I am appalled that you would believe a single word of what comes out of their mouths based on the number of times it has been proven that they out and out lied! They are lying about this and it has already been proven. The LA governor sent a letter on August 26th (BEFORE THE STORM HIT) requesting that the president "federalize" this emergency and he sent a letter back on Auguat 27th stating that he had declared a federal emergency!!

The Bush administration is now lying to their propaganda spreaders so they will tell lies and confuse the facts. It will all come out but not in time to make a difference for the poor suffering people of that area of our country. This was unconscionable and Bush should be impeached!!!

THE incompetence and appointment of nothing more then political hacks to important positions such as the head of FEMA has left our country totally unprotected and looking like a third world country!! Brown does not have the experience or the credentials to head FEMA!!!!

God help anyone who continues to support this administration. I mean, my God, what ELSE has to happen for you to wake up to the truth and the lies and incompetence not to mention the absolute arrogance???

I am sorry if I seem passionate about this bit I AM!!!! We all need to question and we all need answers about the war, the hurricane, the tax cuts, the education system, the deficit, the gas prices, our democratic rights, our constitution......EVERYTHING!! This is not the AMERICA our forefathers envisioned!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by centralnewyorki

LOL! I didn't even see that quote! It's not like he picked her!

I don't understand when people say the media is just bashing bush and most of what they report is biased. I'm not a fan of Bush, but am all about getting the truth in subjects. If I don't get my information from the media- where should I turn to find "the truth"? This isn't meant to sound rude, but where is everyone else getting their information from? I've taken goverment courses in college and my professors didn't give us alternative sources of information.

Watch CSpan or Cspan 2 and the actual documentation and evidence can be found on the internet . Real journalists back their stories up with citations from real, legitimate sources and documentation of what they report. They do not "pull things out of thin air" . Quotes and citations of what people say can usual be fiund with video clips where you can actual watch the person who said it say it so you know it is true.

[bchgirl]

On a side note, my puppy's head smells like cat pee. PHEWEE!!! Can I spray Nature's Miracle on her head [/QUOTE]


In the middle of reading this thread, this comment made me laugh out loud! Who do you blame for kitty peeing on your puppy? You could place blame at the bottom....kitty (local government) the middle....puppy for rolling in it (state government).....or the top, YOU..(federal government)...for allowing it to happen

[lily's mom]

Originally Posted by Thorsmomma

24 hrs late? What about the 5 days from when the storm hit to when Bush finally got troops down there?? He addmitted that he didn't know that the situation was so critical until Thursday!!!...People were dying due to his lack of 'knowledge' about how serious the storm had impacted LA,MS... Everyone knew this storm was coming and going to hit hard, so how did he 'not know' it was so serious until 4 days afterwards, and then it took even long for troops to be deploid, help with the rescuing efforts, and but an end the the brief Anarcy!! But most importantly start saving the life of people that were standing up to water up to their hips, cut people out of their atticks, get food out to the hungry, etc. Maybe if all of our troops weren't in Iraq then the people most directly impacted by Katrina would have had help come to them faster. It's just unbelievable that it has taken so long for relief to start. Now it is in force and we have our troops, and volunteers are flooding to help, and with the millions of dollars that have been donated I think that things are getting back in track. I worry that our government won't give the danations directly to the people, and to the rebuilding of the beautiful and historical city, and not only New Orleans, but Biloxi, and all the other many cities and communities that were demolished. Hopefully better discisions will start to be made by this governmen.
I don't think it is fair for you to speak for ALL 'liberals', because ALL liberals are not politicizing the events that Katrina has lead to, and I don't believe that there hasn't been politicing from conservitives. But of course everything has to do with politics, everything is political. But as everyone is entitled to their own opinions, it is important that we all stick together, to help the people that were really hurt by Katrina with prayers, donations, volunteer work, or whatever it is that you can bing to the table.

Bush is not incharge of deploying Reserve and Guard troops. The GOVENORS of the state is in charge of their own troops. How in the world can we be blaming the results of a natural disaster on the President? As has been said, EVERYBODY knew the storm was coming......so why in the he** would you stay in a potential disaster zone. Then after it hit, the govenor is responsible to enlist the help of Guard and Reservist and FEMA etc. How can everything be Bushes fault.

[DomLee]

It is not entirely Bush's fault. BUT he is looked upon as our leader.

How would you feel if you were one of those affected by Katrina, and he told you "It is not my job". Would you be pissed? I would.

BUT what he should've done was to at least say that he knew of the situation AND he would be following up on the situation and make some calls. He may not do these things, but just the simple fact that he was looking over these things make a HUGE impact in people's perception of what is going on.

Is it his job to direct food/aid? No. But for the highest command in our nation to say that he will look into the situation...that is reassuring to some people.

[centralnewyorki]

Originally Posted by lily's mom

Bush is not incharge of deploying Reserve and Guard troops. The GOVENORS of the state is in charge of their own troops. How in the world can we be blaming the results of a natural disaster on the President? As has been said, EVERYBODY knew the storm was coming......so why in the he** would you stay in a potential disaster zone. Then after it hit, the govenor is responsible to enlist the help of Guard and Reservist and FEMA etc. How can everything be Bushes fault.

I have to say this again- many of those that suffered had no other option other than to ride out the hurricane. If you log onto CNN, there is a report on now that the remains of 30 people were found in St. Rita's Nursing Home. What were these people to do? Many elderly live from one check to another and couldn't afford the bus fair, taxi fare, etc. to leave. How about those too poor to afford a ticket out?

I made the point before that in my readings I read that Bush, Clinton, and Bush Sr. knew that the levees would only withstand a category 3 hurricane. I am trying to further research this at work and jennifermcb also said she would look for documention of this. If this is true, I'm not sure how anyone could not say that the people of NO suffering was each of these presidents' fault. They had the opportunity to change the factors in this situation causing all the problems. People would not have drowned in 20 ft of water in their homes from Hurricane Katrina alone. My sister went through Ivan (a Cat 4) last year in Pensacola, FL with no problem. She works for a college and some of the students in the shelter were outside during the storm! The levees breaking was not the natural disaster. Most of the fatalities of this tragedy survived the natural disaster and died at the hands of other people's negligence.

[Thorsmomma]

I don't think anyone here is blaming bush for the hurricane! It is the aftermath and the lack of actions being taken that is causing so much controversy!
It seemed to me that everyone knew that Katrina was coming too. Do you think that if people knew that this was going to be the worst natural disaster in US history that they would have stayed there? When Katrina hit land it became a category 4 hurricane. Camiel was a category 5!! A few reasons that people didn't leave were because they had lived through Camiel which was previously one of the worst hurricanes (if not the worst) and since Katrina was a level down from that they thought they could survive through it! And many, many people DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY! These were the people that live day to day just trying to get by, pay check to pay check. They didn't not have the funds to leave. It is not fair for you to 'blame' these people for their own loss and suffering. Granted, some people wouldn't have left even if they could have looked into the future, and that is a decision that they made, but it is still a tragedy. Tragedies like this are supposed to bring up together, not weed people out.
Remeber after 9/11/01 the gov implented all these plans to better prepare the country in case of another unexpected emergency? What good have all these preparations done? Just food for thought.

Jennifer, you made me crack up! That comment was hilarious!

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by lily's mom

As has been said, EVERYBODY knew the storm was coming......so why in the he** would you stay in a potential disaster zone.

Two words....personal choice. I live in a hurricane zone, we've been hit, brushed, and threaten many many times. What many people who don't live in hurricane threat zones fail to realize is the hundreds of people (who DO have the means/money/etc to leave) will NOT do it. Period. We stay in a cat 1 storm, over that, and we're outta here. Btw, I live on the water. Now my neighbor absolutely, postively refuses to leave ever. It would be interesting to know how many of the people stranded in their homes down south, COULDN'T leave or simply CHOOSE not to. I'm talking about during the hurricane NOT after the levees broke. One happened before the other......