OUCH! That "responsible breeder" was a quote -- copy and paste from the YTCA site not my words! I am still formulating my personal opinion on this and bringing up discussion. I am VERY interested in what others have to say and what the general feeling at shows might be.

So, are you saying that parti-colored Yorkies are another new breed altogether and will be eventually recognized as such? If so, I understand that. But it seems more like they are registering them AS Yorkshire Terriers, just another color.

So, is YTCA not generally recognized as a breed reference source? Since the AKC site sent me there, I thought it was reputable and I have heard of them for years without any negatives.

BTW -- no worries -- I am not taking this as being mean -- I am glad that you are sharing information. I have always approached having a Yorkie as a "pet only" proposition. Now that I am interested in breeding, I will have MUCH to learn and may have to rethink some things several times before coming to any conclusion.

They will most likely end up being in a separate catagory. For instance, with cocker spanials. There are three categories of color. Black, parti and ASCOB (any solid color other than black).

With beagles there are two different sizes, under 15 inch and 15 inch or over.

So the parti coloreds will probably not be put in the ring with traditional coloreds, but rather have their own classification and standards.

The YTCA is just a bit behind the times. Eventually the Older people will be replaced by younger people with more open minds. Large organizations are very reluctant to change. But as with any organization it's all up to the membership, and they either evolve or they become extinct.

I have not done any breeding yet either, but I have read enough to know that breeders have different opinions of what constitutes a responsible breeder.

Some breeders see nothing wrong with caging their animals as long as they are properly cared for. I could never cage a dog. Cages are for vicious animals. Those same breeders might object to breeding two different breeds, even though there is a market for them.

There is a huge market for pet quality yorkies. And as for their claiming to breed only to better the breed, and not for profit. How much better can you make the breed. Now if they would say they breed to improve their own line, that is a different story.

The real challenge would be to take two ordinary yorkies and to see if you could come up with an extraordinary offspring, through selective breeding.

This colouring along with Chocolates are considered to be incorrect to the breed standard for the Yorkshire Terrier. There is more info on colours on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America which is the parent club found at www.ytca.org
You may also want to read the info provided on this link

http://members.aol.com/CYorkie/BiewerTriColor.html
I have no intention of getting into debate, only to present the facts. Anyone can think what they wish.
BTW 6 months is too young to ever consider using a male for breeding You wouldn't use a female at that age and neither should a male so young be used.

The Breed Standard is being rewritten as we speak. The parti color and off colored yorkies is being as a disqualification, the only disqualification in the standard. YTCA is also working with AKC on this issue.

Thanks for that second reference link. It was good to learn some science behind the colors. I think I will just stay within standard. I read that the Yorkshire Terrier has been shown since 1870 -- that is a lot of years to remain the familiar black/blue and tan/gold.

You have beautiful dogs parti, I too am a lover of the parti color. Hopefully AKC will change and update to a new day and time. If you look ,AKC hasnt changed anything on the Yorkshire Terrier since 1966......... 40 yrs..To me thats a long time not to renew any kind of standards. All dog breeds change to some extent after years and years. Yorkies arent even today what they were when they were first founded. I think the breed registries and YTCA should be more concerned about so many dogs being bred with health issues and size rather than the color of their hair. But this is JMO.;)

I don't quite understand what you are saying. Who is rewriting it. and what are they disqualifing. Off colors were already disqualified, but the AKC is registering them.

I'm guessing that in time there will be another category for the other colors. These things take time. Like I said organizations do not like chnge, but if they don't change new organizations will pop up to take their place. It's all a matter of membership numbers.

I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions on what is a responsible breeder.[/QUOTE]
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Well, for starters a "responsible breeder" would educate themselves to the point that they'd know that breeding a nine month old bitch is WRONG!!! Period. And the person who's planning to do it better look for a new vet PDQ.

The Biewer breeders can approach AKC and start the process of having thier breed recognized as Biewer Terriers. Not as a Yorkshire Terrier. Just as the Norfolk and Norwich Terriers are now two separate breeds. Many of the parti's in this country are nothing but mutts.

AKC is in the business of making money by registering dogs. For example, they'll register a white german shepard but you can't show the dog. And that is what is happening with the Biewars. It's also my understanding that the Beiwars aren't recognized by FCI so they have a long way to go before they are a legitmate breed in any country.

People have been crossing breeds for years and hoping they'll become legitimate breeds. Remember the days of the Cockapoo!!! The breeders of these mutts, and that includes all the designer mutts that are appearing these days are just making quick bucks. As one person said, they're a novelty and buyers are willing to pay.

<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, for starters a "responsible breeder" would educate themselves to the point that they'd know that breeding a nine month old bitch is WRONG!!! Period. And the person who's planning to do it better look for a new vet PDQ.[/QUOTE]

Raymonds Mom
She stated her female was 9 months old in the photo, and she was going to breed her on her second heat. Not know.

First understand what a standard is.
A standard is a picture of what a dog of a certain breed should look like. The standard is so that one breed will look like the breed in question rather than another. With the Yorkie being so close in looks to the Silky, the standard is more important than ever. Without a standard, the Yorkie very easily would look just like the Silky.

As for the standard changing, we are making some minor changes, which is all that is needed. Why would it change? No reason at all. No one should ever change a standard to fit fads. Has the Yorkie improved in the last 40 years? Certainly it has, thankfully to dedicated breeders striving to improve the breed as a whole.

Now just because AKC registers a color other than the proper color does not mean that is an acceptable color for show. It is not, and AKC doesn't decide the standard, YTCA does. AKC is only a registration body that issues registration papers, the parent clubs such as YTCA decides the standard for each breed and what they consider acceptable colors within the breed.

An improper color is just that, an improper color, to be placed s/n as a pet just as I would place as a pet, a dog with a bad bite, bad topline, etc. You can't expect to produce the very best unless breeding from the very best.

Can the breed improve more? Well I would hope anyone that breeds can answer yes to that question. Responsible breeders can and do try to protect the breeds from fads. They at all times breed to improve on the breed. How can they improve on the breed? This is an easy answer and should be for all breeders. They goal is to produce puppies where every single puppy is healthy, has great toplines, tailsets, front & rears, pretty heads with good earsets and bites and fabulous temperaments and that all are in size. Until every puppy falls in that category, there is still improvement that can be had in the breed overall. That improvement will come by breeding responsibly.

Thank you Jeanie I feel The same :) very well Said:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Reputable breeding covers the points JeanieK mentioned however, it does go a little further when you are talking about purebred dogs in my opinion, regardless of what breed you are talking about.
All purebred registered dogs have breed standards for their particular breed. Responsible breeding in my opinion, includes striving to breed to that standard. That means those that are really a pet quality, letting them go for pet on spay/neuter contracts or have them spay/neutered before letting them go to new homes not to be used for breeding to produce more and more puppies further and further away from the breed standard. OVer time you will get dogs that barely look like the breed they are supposed to be because you have not selected quality good representatives of the breed to produce your next generations.
Reputable breeding includes researching and knowing your pedigrees and knowing what is behind each and every one of those dogs and lines including what you need to continue to improve what you have. And that includes health and genetic issues.
The Yorkie right now is very popular and getting big bucks for many who are just breeding to sell puppies. It will be interesting to see who continues to breed them and who doesn't when the current popularity of the Yorkie runs its course, and that it will do eventually. It has happened so many times with so many breeds over the course of years.

YTCA (the National Club controls the standard) is rewriting the standard in conjunction with AKC. The disqualification will be off colored and parti colored. Yes, AKC is registering them, however, it is being looked into DNA testing prior to registering to insure their purebred standing.

I didn't know about the DNA testing that will be required by AKC. That's great news. In surfing the net and looking at some of the web sites used by breeders that are selling parti's you can see that the pups are a mixed breed. At least those people will be eliminated from the mix.

Wow
 

there stunning

Trust me the parti colored dogs from the crownridge and Summit yorkies were DNA's many many times before they were accepted by AKC. They are not mixed breeds, the original Parti coloreds came from two champion yorkies. and they were DNA'd to prove that.

They can rewrite the standards for yorkies to exclude he parti color but that does not mean that the parti colored will never makes it's own place in the registry. There can be a Parti colored Yorkshire Terrier club and push to get these dog accepted. All of these breed clubs had to start somewhere, and as I have stated twice now, if they don't evolve with time they will become extinct and go the way of the Dinasaur.

The YTCA may be the Alpha but it will not be the Omega if it doesn't evolve.

Some of them probably are, that is why it is important to buy from the original line. I would not get one that did not come from the Crownridge/Summit yorkie line.

And they have been DNA'd already, before the AKC accepted them.

They are adorable!

Here is a picture of Chachi's sire. His mother is a carrier, not a colored and Chachi is a carrier. I'm waiting for a colored girl.

In my humble opinion, I feel
FlDebra
Lorraine and
Goldenray
have brought up some very important points. They are darling but because there is a market $$ for them does not mean we should breed and possibly
jeopardize health.

The DNA testing to determine breed purity is new. I would expect that any testing that the two kennels you mention have done is for the frequently used sires program. As for the origin of the dogs that started the parti's in the US, from Gloria Lipman's breeding, there is no way to prove purity of those breedings.

Will YTCA become extinct if they don't embrace parti's....Of course not. New members are entrusted with the job of protecting our breed, not marketing it. And the new breeders take this obligation as seriously as the long time breeders.

The Biewer breeders should take note here. They have established stud books and have started to amass the information needed by AKC to have Biewer Terriers recognized. Those breeding parti's that originated here in the US need to be very careful. The mutts bred here may hinder the years of hard work that the Biewer breeders have put in.

Excellent post.
Regarding genetic testing of sires and progeny in any kennel, the AKC, from what I have been told by friends, also do checks at random regardless of numbers of litters or how often a sire is used at stud. There have been discrepancies discovered by the AKC during these random testings.

Biewer Yorkshire Terrier standard greatly simplified: the dog must have white legs, white belly, white on head (preferably symetrical), white tip on tail that cannot be docked. The head should have three colors on it (White, black/blue, tan/gold). The rest of the standard is that of a traditional Yorkie. (size, build, hair coat).
Having a Standard to breed to important to me. I want to continue with that standard and hopefully improve the quality of dogs with my breedings. (Any perfect dogs out there?) Being able to show the Biewers helps me to evaluated my dogs and breeding program.

No the DNA testing that was required in order to get these dogs registered was DNA testing to prove that the offspring came from the dam and sire that the they were claimed to have come from.

Every puppy in the litters were DNA tested and still are. If you want to register a litter of parti colored puppies, you have to have the parents and every puppy in the litter DNA'd. This is what they went through to get hese parti colored babies accepted by the AKC.

So if a parti colored puppy is AKC registered,f you can bet that it was DNA tested.

i have done my homeowrk on these puppies. I was not going to spend a lot of money to buy a dog that might have been half maltese. I went to the very origin of their existence, and bought from champion bloodlines.

The original breeders went to a lot of expense to get these dogs accepted by the AKC, and the AKC did not give in easily. It took many many generations of testing before they would register them.

The size of the Biewer looks much bigger to me from the pictures, heavier dog, and coat does not look at all like the silk coat of a Yorkie. Head is very terrier much more so than the YOrkie of today.
JMO

No the DNA testing that was required in order to get these dogs registered was DNA testing to prove that the offspring came from the dam and sire that the they were claimed to have come from.

Every puppy in the litters were DNA tested and still are. If you want to register a litter of parti colored puppies, you have to have the parents and every puppy in the litter DNA'd. This is what they went through to get hese parti colored babies accepted by the AKC.

So if a parti colored puppy is AKC registered,f you can bet that it was DNA tested.

i have done my homeowrk on these puppies. I was not going to spend a lot of money to buy a dog that might have been half maltese. I went to the very origin of their existence, and bought from champion bloodlines.

The original breeders went to a lot of expense to get these dogs accepted by the AKC, and the AKC did not give in easily. It took many many generations of testing before they would register them.

I commend you Kathy. And I do hope that some day the Biewers will be able to be exhibited in AKC shows but as a separate breed from Yorkshire Terriers. And again, I would put my money on the German Biewer lines vs. the parti's that started in the U.S. If you do want to be affiliated with a recognized breed, show in the shows that are credible, and really be able to claim that you have show dogs then AKC is the only way to go. UKC also holds very well run shows. I have no idea what their standing is on Biewers. Do you know if they are shown at UKC shows?