Fur changes? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-24-2005, 04:26 PM

Hi and welcome to Yorkie Talk! Glad you found us. You sound like a well versed dog lover. I used to have shepherds as a kid. Love them!! What you do for your local dog club is commendable too! Way to go!!

First, to put in my 2 cents with respect to the "generalization" that "all pet stores" are inherently bad...that's like saying all men cheat on their wives. I hope I do not offend anyone with this analogy, but it is a good one in my opinion. Maybe "most, some, or a majority" of men cheat on their wives according to the statisitics, but we do not condemn marriage as a result and say, "Don't marry men!!" Not EVERY pet store in the world buys their puppies from puppymills and it is a generalization and not true to say so. It is fine to want to close down and put puppymills and disreputable breeders out of business, and I am in no way defending these establishments and individuals because I think they need to be stopped, but we lose our credibility when we generalize like this.

Okay, that said...on to coats and yorkie hair texture. There are definitely different coat textures in adult yorkies and puppy yorkies. There is what they call a "cotton" coat which is not as silky and sometimes wavy and mats more easily than a silky coat. The breed standard is a silky coat as an adult, much like human hair which doesn't tangle or mat easily. Maybe some breeders and more experienced owners can elaborate further.

Hope you become an active member here. I think we could learn a lot from you! Welcome again!

Mya's_Mom · 05-24-2005, 04:48 PM

Welcome Debr !
I sent you a private message and yes it is on topic.

red98vett · 05-24-2005, 05:23 PM

Wow - Comparing Pet Stores to Marriage ? Did I read this right ?

Pet Stores are NOTORIOUS for buying from puppy mills - I really don't think ANYONE should be defending them when someone new could come read that and think a pet store is ok to buy from - they are NOT.

Puppy Mills may be slowed down if Pet Stores didn't buy in quantity like they do. They would not BREED dogs over and over and discard them when they're through with them - they wouldn't HAVE A PLACE to ship all these puppies if Pet Stores were stopped.

This is no offense to anyone who purchased their puppy from a pet store - but in order to make a dent in mills - we need to cut off the demand... and pet stores supply that demand when people fall in love seeing a puppy in a store -

Many puppies are purchased in Pet Stores as an impulse buy - People window shop - they see - they fall in love or want to rescue that puppy - the Pet Store makes a sale - goes BACK to the mill and replaces that sold puppy with a new Mill Puppy - and it goes on and on -

If someone is going to say "It's ok - not all pet stores are bad" that's sending the wrong signal to people who may not know what happens in these places. I can't believe I read this.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-24-2005, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debr

this is a small town pet store, no mill puppies. She is the product from owners wifes 2 dogs. She has a grooming shop and breeds a few different small breeds.

A pet store which does not get it's puppies from a puppymill is okay. Why would you want to put this woman out of business because some pet stores buy from puppy mills when she doesn't?

That would be the same as saying we want to put ALL breeders out of business because they may be disreputable and may sell sick puppies. IMO this kind of thinking is "extreme".There will always be people who fall in love with puppies so the demand will always be there whether they are a breeder with a store or one who sells from their kennel, their ranch or their house.

I think we have a responsibility to warn people who come on here that you really have to check out where a pet store gets their puppies before they consider buying one because pet stores (in the malls especially) are notorious for buying from puppymills, just as we should try to educate people about unscrupulous breeders, brokers and about what puppymills are in general.

Again, I will reiterate my opinion that "broad generalizations" lose credibility because as soon as there is ONE exception to the rule, people realize the statement is not true and start questioning everything that has been said. It hurts our battle to eliminate puppymills in my opinion.

red98vett · 05-24-2005, 05:58 PM

Here we go ...it's not extreme - it's true - and Kim - you can defend Pet Stores all you want - I said what I said ...and I disagree with you... but I know this will lead nowhere.

Too many people have no idea where pet store animals come from - you can defend them all you want ....but they DO BUY FROM MILLS - they are the biggest clients mills have. I see you're also defending Mills in your last sentence....Why would anyone defend animal abuse ?

My own FAMILY didn't even know what puppy mills were and how pet stores get their animals till I got yorkies 3 years ago - Most people who shop in a PET STORE WILL NOT RESEARCH THAT STORE - they want the puppy right away - it's hard to see past the suffering and the need to save that one puppy is very strong.

I'm not a fanatic - OF COURSE there's going to be that one or 2 stores that really care - but do you really think anyone is going to delve into their business practices in real life ?

the new member Debr who posted this thread is rare... and I commend her - but the reality is... pet stores exploit animals.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-24-2005, 06:06 PM

It's really very easy!

Do not buy from a pet store or a puppy broker unless they let you talk to and interview the breeder.

Your interview should be derived of questions to ascertain whether the breeder is a puppymill or a reputable breeder.

diva pup · 05-24-2005, 06:32 PM

Are you kidding me? What is the matter with just encouraging people NOT to buy from a puppy broker or pet store???? To buy from a reputable breeder is just SO MUCH EASIER.
I am not trying to "stir the pot" here but it seems like it is a much safer alternative to direct people to a reputable breeder than having to grill a pet store or broker on where they get their pups and just hoping to get an honest answer. This idea is ludicrous IMO.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-24-2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diva pup

What is the matter with just encouraging people NOT to buy from a puppy broker or pet store???? .

I would not want anything I said to negatively affect and possibly destroy the livlihood or business of good, hardworking, honest people. It is the same reason that I defend breeders who are wrongly attacked. It is not fair to damage the reputations of those who are hard working and honest, which most breeders that I know personally, are, just because some are not completely reputable. Not ALL breeders are bad! There seems to be a misconception and it usually comes from these broad over generalizations.

ReconsMomma · 05-24-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red98vett

I wish I could help you with shampoos for the odor - I wonder if there's some powder or something to use between baths to absorb this - kind of like us using baking soda in the fridge ? Poor little baby - I'd love to see a pic of your new puppy - I know you must be excited ...smelly baby or not !

Adding a little baking soda to the water and letting your pup soak in it for a little bit will help over time. We have a Petland in our town which I am no longer allowed in but anyway, people buy puppies there and then bring them to us because of the smell. I tell them why the pups have this odor and the people just cant believe that that is true. I printed out a bunch of stuff that I found about puppymills and some things that I have found on here and taken them into work so these people that buy pups at this store can relize where the pups come from.
Sorry to babble but yes, fill the sink or tub up with some water, put some baking soda in there and let your pup soak for a little bit. Then do the normal bath. After a few baths with this it should take the odor away.

LvMyYorki · 05-24-2005, 07:17 PM

Just speaking for myself here, but I agree with suggesting that people adopt from a local breeder that they find through the YTCA. Its so simple.
It IS my GOAL to negatively affect the business of any pet store that sells puppy mill puppies. I don't just want to negatively affect it... I want it SHUT DOWN! If there is less of a demand, then the market will slow.

As far as reputable breeders being unjustly attacked... I must have missed that one! I have never seen anyone unjustly attack a responsible or reputable breeder on any forum. I have seen some questionable breeding practices exposed for the benefit of future potential buyers.

Luvmypupster · 05-24-2005, 07:32 PM

Most pet shops are not going to admit to where they get their stock from. Animal welfare organizations such as ASPCA, Local Humane Societies, PETA, Breed Specific Rescues, Breed Clubs, Veterinarians to name a few will strongly advise people against purchasing a puppy from a pet shop. The internet is full of information that cautions people against buying from pet shops. You will be hard pressed to find anyone or any organization that would encourage people to buy from a pet shop. I know there are sweet little puppies out there in pet shops that deserve a loving home. But you are risking the possibility that the puppy came from a questionable background. Pet shops & puppy mills will continue to exist as long as there is a market for the product. The only way to stop them is to stop buying their puppies.

red98vett · 05-24-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

I would not want anything I said to negatively affect and possibly destroy the livlihood or business of good, hardworking, honest people. It is the same reason that I defend breeders who are wrongly attacked. It is not fair to damage the reputations of those who are hard working and honest, which most breeders that I know personally, are, just because some are not completely reputable. Not ALL breeders are bad! There seems to be a misconception and it usually comes from these broad over generalizations.

I guess I'll repeat myself too - the vast MAJORITY of Pet Stores SELL MILL PUPPIES - where on EARTH do you think that kind of volume of puppies come from - the puppy fairy ???

and Brenda - you're right and I liked your post - I do agree you'll find mom and pop places out there who actually know where their puppies come from but I have THREE pet stores near me and I can almost positivily state they would NOT share their supplier - even if I asked them - they buy from mills ...period. Even if they DID share where they got their puppies from - how would anyone know if it were a mill or not ? Lots of MILLS have very nice names and no one would dream what they really do for a living.

red98vett · 05-24-2005, 07:50 PM

ReconsMomma....You're banned from Petland

? Good for you - you must have really got to them for that to happen ! Petland is one of the biggest buyer of Mill puppies ever.

Laura · 05-24-2005, 08:00 PM

All my life I have wanted to open a small pet store, mainly fish; raise a few hamsters on the side and such as that. I don't know if I will ever be able to do that, but if I did, it would be a hobby and my pet store pets would be the best, just as my own pets are.

Debr - My little girl Zowie was 9 weeks when we got her. I started thinking her hair seemed not as soft as Bronx (not her brother - 8 weeks at purchase). I give them the best foods and shampoo and condition at least weekly. Then I started giving her hair cuts and left Bronx with a long coat. Now at 1 1/2, she has a pretty silver coloring, it is very soft and looks lovely, tangle free.

I thought she might have had a skin rash or something prior to my getting her, even bites or something like that. I don't know. Also, both puppies got kennel cough from our VET when they went in for their checkup, they are great, but I think anywhere a number of pets are is like a doctors office (no where I wanted my children-babies to have to go for shots)

LvMyYorki · 05-24-2005, 08:13 PM

i had never been to a petland until i picked Bunny up. When her flight was late, I ran around looking for a pet shop to pick up some nutrical and stumbled upon petland. i was HORRIBLE!!! they had dogs in glass crates like fish tanks in the wall. the poor puppies had no room to move around or play and some were too big for their area and could barely stand up. i was disgusted! I sat in my car and cried and cried! i was so lucky to have found a wonderful breeder that raises her puppies in her home and was going to pick her up and then the site of this just broke my heart into a million pieces!

05-24-2005, 04:26 PM	#16
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	Different cost textures Hi and welcome to Yorkie Talk! Glad you found us. You sound like a well versed dog lover. I used to have shepherds as a kid. Love them!! What you do for your local dog club is commendable too! Way to go!! First, to put in my 2 cents with respect to the "generalization" that "all pet stores" are inherently bad...that's like saying all men cheat on their wives. I hope I do not offend anyone with this analogy, but it is a good one in my opinion. Maybe "most, some, or a majority" of men cheat on their wives according to the statisitics, but we do not condemn marriage as a result and say, "Don't marry men!!" Not EVERY pet store in the world buys their puppies from puppymills and it is a generalization and not true to say so. It is fine to want to close down and put puppymills and disreputable breeders out of business, and I am in no way defending these establishments and individuals because I think they need to be stopped, but we lose our credibility when we generalize like this. Okay, that said...on to coats and yorkie hair texture. There are definitely different coat textures in adult yorkies and puppy yorkies. There is what they call a "cotton" coat which is not as silky and sometimes wavy and mats more easily than a silky coat. The breed standard is a silky coat as an adult, much like human hair which doesn't tangle or mat easily. Maybe some breeders and more experienced owners can elaborate further. Hope you become an active member here. I think we could learn a lot from you! Welcome again! Last edited by SoCalyorkiLvr; 05-24-2005 at 04:30 PM.

05-24-2005, 04:48 PM	#17
Mya's_Mom YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 689	Welcome Debr ! I sent you a private message and yes it is on topic. __________________ Regards,Cyn Driving the grammatically correct insane, one posting at a time

05-24-2005, 05:23 PM	#18
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	Wow - Comparing Pet Stores to Marriage ? Did I read this right ? Pet Stores are NOTORIOUS for buying from puppy mills - I really don't think ANYONE should be defending them when someone new could come read that and think a pet store is ok to buy from - they are NOT. Puppy Mills may be slowed down if Pet Stores didn't buy in quantity like they do. They would not BREED dogs over and over and discard them when they're through with them - they wouldn't HAVE A PLACE to ship all these puppies if Pet Stores were stopped. This is no offense to anyone who purchased their puppy from a pet store - but in order to make a dent in mills - we need to cut off the demand... and pet stores supply that demand when people fall in love seeing a puppy in a store - Many puppies are purchased in Pet Stores as an impulse buy - People window shop - they see - they fall in love or want to rescue that puppy - the Pet Store makes a sale - goes BACK to the mill and replaces that sold puppy with a new Mill Puppy - and it goes on and on - If someone is going to say "It's ok - not all pet stores are bad" that's sending the wrong signal to people who may not know what happens in these places. I can't believe I read this. __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE! Last edited by red98vett; 05-24-2005 at 05:32 PM.

05-24-2005, 05:58 PM	#20
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	Here we go ...it's not extreme - it's true - and Kim - you can defend Pet Stores all you want - I said what I said ...and I disagree with you... but I know this will lead nowhere. Too many people have no idea where pet store animals come from - you can defend them all you want ....but they DO BUY FROM MILLS - they are the biggest clients mills have. I see you're also defending Mills in your last sentence....Why would anyone defend animal abuse ? My own FAMILY didn't even know what puppy mills were and how pet stores get their animals till I got yorkies 3 years ago - Most people who shop in a PET STORE WILL NOT RESEARCH THAT STORE - they want the puppy right away - it's hard to see past the suffering and the need to save that one puppy is very strong. I'm not a fanatic - OF COURSE there's going to be that one or 2 stores that really care - but do you really think anyone is going to delve into their business practices in real life ? the new member Debr who posted this thread is rare... and I commend her - but the reality is... pet stores exploit animals. __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE! Last edited by red98vett; 05-24-2005 at 06:04 PM.

05-24-2005, 07:17 PM	#25
LvMyYorki Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 1,181	Just speaking for myself here, but I agree with suggesting that people adopt from a local breeder that they find through the YTCA. Its so simple. It IS my GOAL to negatively affect the business of any pet store that sells puppy mill puppies. I don't just want to negatively affect it... I want it SHUT DOWN! If there is less of a demand, then the market will slow. As far as reputable breeders being unjustly attacked... I must have missed that one! I have never seen anyone unjustly attack a responsible or reputable breeder on any forum. I have seen some questionable breeding practices exposed for the benefit of future potential buyers. Last edited by LvMyYorki; 05-24-2005 at 07:30 PM.

05-24-2005, 06:06 PM	#21
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	It's really very easy! Do not buy from a pet store or a puppy broker unless they let you talk to and interview the breeder. Your interview should be derived of questions to ascertain whether the breeder is a puppymill or a reputable breeder.

05-24-2005, 06:32 PM	#22
diva pup BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,139	Are you kidding me? What is the matter with just encouraging people NOT to buy from a puppy broker or pet store???? To buy from a reputable breeder is just SO MUCH EASIER. I am not trying to "stir the pot" here but it seems like it is a much safer alternative to direct people to a reputable breeder than having to grill a pet store or broker on where they get their pups and just hoping to get an honest answer. This idea is ludicrous IMO.

05-24-2005, 07:32 PM	#26
Luvmypupster YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: tx Posts: 624	Most pet shops are not going to admit to where they get their stock from. Animal welfare organizations such as ASPCA, Local Humane Societies, PETA, Breed Specific Rescues, Breed Clubs, Veterinarians to name a few will strongly advise people against purchasing a puppy from a pet shop. The internet is full of information that cautions people against buying from pet shops. You will be hard pressed to find anyone or any organization that would encourage people to buy from a pet shop. I know there are sweet little puppies out there in pet shops that deserve a loving home. But you are risking the possibility that the puppy came from a questionable background. Pet shops & puppy mills will continue to exist as long as there is a market for the product. The only way to stop them is to stop buying their puppies. __________________ Emme & Faith R.I.P. Mia & Bentley

05-24-2005, 07:50 PM	#28
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	ReconsMomma....You're banned from Petland ? Good for you - you must have really got to them for that to happen ! Petland is one of the biggest buyer of Mill puppies ever. __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE!

05-24-2005, 08:00 PM	#29
Laura Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wylie TX Posts: 1,577	All my life I have wanted to open a small pet store, mainly fish; raise a few hamsters on the side and such as that. I don't know if I will ever be able to do that, but if I did, it would be a hobby and my pet store pets would be the best, just as my own pets are. Debr - My little girl Zowie was 9 weeks when we got her. I started thinking her hair seemed not as soft as Bronx (not her brother - 8 weeks at purchase). I give them the best foods and shampoo and condition at least weekly. Then I started giving her hair cuts and left Bronx with a long coat. Now at 1 1/2, she has a pretty silver coloring, it is very soft and looks lovely, tangle free. I thought she might have had a skin rash or something prior to my getting her, even bites or something like that. I don't know. Also, both puppies got kennel cough from our VET when they went in for their checkup, they are great, but I think anywhere a number of pets are is like a doctors office (no where I wanted my children-babies to have to go for shots) __________________ Laura--loving mom of Robyn, Dexter, Sandy, Mattie, Sammy, Jake & Mollie http://www.yorkietalk.com/gallery/sh...00&ppuser=1851

05-24-2005, 08:13 PM	#30
LvMyYorki Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 1,181	i had never been to a petland until i picked Bunny up. When her flight was late, I ran around looking for a pet shop to pick up some nutrical and stumbled upon petland. i was HORRIBLE!!! they had dogs in glass crates like fish tanks in the wall. the poor puppies had no room to move around or play and some were too big for their area and could barely stand up. i was disgusted! I sat in my car and cried and cried! i was so lucky to have found a wonderful breeder that raises her puppies in her home and was going to pick her up and then the site of this just broke my heart into a million pieces!