Controversial email with royalpuppies.com
 

Hi YT! Just thought I'd share this with you all. Obviously, she didn't get my point!


-------Original Message-------

From: Elizabeth Ensor
Date: 05/05/05 08:52:25
To: info@royalpuppies.com
Subject: puppies

Why do you intentionally breed mixed breed puppies? It appears you are only interested in the $$$ they generate for you and that you aren't interested in the health and well-being of the puppies. I think the poor blue Maltese looks miserable! Responsible breeders breed for the continuation and improvement of the breed...not for the money! There are way too many dogs in shelters and on the streets as it is, without you intentionally creating more mixed breeds! I love my mixed breed rescue very much, but so many of them can't find homes and get put down. Think of your puppies future offspring and at least insist of spay/neuter contracts when you sell these outrageously priced mixed breeds. E. Ensor






Yes I intentionally breed mixed breed puppies!!!! Why is it with people like you that when you have a mixed breed you think that the health of the puppy is jeopardized???????? Would you apply the same principle to a white human having a child with and Asian or black man? I know of many so called snobby responsible breeders that breed for the betterment of the breed and do you know what those snobby people do when they dont get a nice puppy and they dont want their names attached to this puppy???? Well they put that puppy down!!! What a nice way to improve the breed. I breed for the love of dogs and also as a way for my family to survive. My husband is disabled and I have 5 kids at home to survive with and you have the nerve to tell me this. Well shame on you lady. People have a choice, to buy or not buy. If they are not interested then they can go elsewhere. Do you also take the time to contact all breeders and pet shops around the world to give you judgement on them like you just did with me? In fact, I do sell with non breeding.

Take for example a golden retriever. I used to have one and the hair loss on this dog was horrible and we had to give her away because of allergies. The temperament of this dog is wonderful however there is a big down side to it which is hair loss. Now, some breeders have crossed them with poodle which give a non shedding dog. This is perfect for a family wanting a big family dog but with no shedding.

Why would my poor blue maltese look miserable????? Dont you get it lady. Do you think that the maltese on Pet Celebrity looks miserable too . I mean its pink????? I guess some close minded people should not look as far as Im concerned.

Dont you have better things to do with your life right now? God has created humans and dogs and whether they are purebred or not they are still entitled to be loved. The same question can be asked to a couple suffering from infertility and that goes through in vitro spending thousands of dollars in care when there are thousands of children dying in this world???????? But hey who am I to judge!

Reply
 

Eensor, you tell them. I hate it when people do that. I can understand accidental breeding thats ok.No Offense to any breeders or own. But some people breed for the money. Mix breeds I love them I have a poodle/schnauzer. I adore her and love her with all of my heart.

But are some breeders are trying to improve the breeder while others trying to put it to shame? Help me out here!

UH OH ........................................! Here we go...

LOL! that's why i put controversial in the title!

OK - this kind of goes back to my thread earlier this week about peoples' views of mixed-breed dogs. Biddy is a mixed breed (yorkie/jack russell). She was bred this way on purpose. The breeder was a friend of my parents and has bred this combination in the past. All of these puppies are in great health & have excellent temperment. I would not change a thing about her - she is absolutley perfect. I feel like I am constantly being judged because she is a mix breed! She was not a rescue - she was a mixed breed bought on purpose. We paid $400 for her which I don't think is outrageous, but I am constantly made to feel shameful! I understand wanting to keep up with breed standards, (my younger pup Tucker is purebred) but there are also fantastic mixed breed dogs out there. Also, there are plenty of pure bred dogs that end up in rescue as well as mixed breeds. I am not trying to argue or disvalue your opinion, I am just stating my point of view as a mixed breed owner...

Breeders like that make me so angry! Good for you for telling her. They care nothing about anyone or anything else besides their selfish needs and $$$. I'm fuming :mad:

Of course people breed for the money, I don't care how much you love the breed. If they didn't the cost to buy a puppy would simply be the costs the breeder accrued, i.e vet bills etc.. Yes I agree there are MANY unwated pets that end up in shelters, however if they are in demand of course they are going to sell and be purchased by breeders, and really it's highly unlikely that someone is going to take a puppy they paid tons of money for to a shelter, most people when they are spending that kind of money do their research on the breeder and the breed (if they don't, no one is at fault but themselves).

There is no indication on her website that her puppies are mistreated in anyway, and I think it is wrong of all of you to insinuate that. And I'm sorry but I have to agree with the women from royalpuppies.com on many of her points..

I mean my god this started because someone posted a picture of a Blue Maltese, and look how blown out of proportion this has gotten.

I don't know... I see both sides.. people wouldnt be breeding these dogs if they weren't in demand,,,, supply and demand!
So as long as people buy them ( and if its what you want,,, why not) people will continue to breed them.
My girlfriend just payed 400.00 for poodle/ pom mix pups.. and they are the cutest,,, furry little balls! ( she got 2 sisters).

To Biddy's Mom
 

I would never want you to feel bad about your dog! I too have a mixed breed that I love dearly...I just don't think people should do this on purpose. JMO

I know that your intentions are good - believe me there are no hard feelings. It just seems that people are ok with mixed breeds if they are "rescue" dogs, but once that find out that they were intentionally bred that way they look at you a little differently. Whenever I see other Yorkie owners at the park they always ask me about Biddy (she looks like a yorkie - but a little different). When they find out that she is a mix (especially if they find out it was intentional) they sort of turn their noses up at us. Believe me I see both sides, but it just really bothers me when people judge me (or worse - judge Biddy!!).

I am sorry. I should I have never started a thread about that. I just want everyone to see and state their opinions about it. I didn't mean to start agruments(sp) or anything. I am very sorry if I upset anyone. :(

Actually,I think you both have a point.I can understand that yorkie breeders cant think why anybody would mix a breed on purpose,let alone sell it for the same price as a pure bred,this has got to be like a punch in the stomache for breeders..but the fact is that there is a demand for certain mixed breeds and whilst there is,they will be bred and of course sold.I actually like most mixed breeds,I think some are very pretty..so would I buy one? Yes,but I must say that I wouldent expect to pay even half of what a pure bred costs,I wouldent even pay $100 for a mixed breed.That said,I dont think that mix breeding shames a breed at all either..there will always be breeders out there that breed purebred yorkies (or other breeds) for those that want one,but those breeders cant expect control the breed all over the world and keep going on and on about making the breed more and more perfect with each litter.What I dont understand is why must breeders only breed to make the breed more and more wonderful? Cant anyone just breed their dog because it has a wonderful temperament,because its beautiul or because they love the breed? Why must you only breed if you have the perfect dog,with an exact certain size,with a perfect coat..etc?? I think this is just over doing it sometimes because we dont all want a super perfect dog with an on the dot size etc,some of us just want a companion of a certain breed.
I know a woman on another forum whos daughter breeds morkies (yorkie/maltese) and I must say that they are beautiful! I dont think she is shaming any of either breeds..infact,I think she has put two beautiful breeds together and made a truly perfect and beautiful dog with a great temperament and beautiful hair etc:)
Iv had mutts all my life..as a child there wasnt enough money t have purebreds so we had rescue mutts or bought mutts and none had health problems due to being mixed.This is just my opinion..I respect everybodys point of view so please respect mine too;) Those who want a mixed breed should be able to find one,the same as those who want a perfect purebred should be able to find one too:) Life isnt always black or white,we dont all want the same things:)

there wont be any arguements cause no matter what kind of dog they are or how they were brought into this world they still need a home and they deserve to be loved they didnt asked to be brought into this world just remember that !

I hate to jump in such a controversial subject.......but I had a conversation with a friend just this afternoon. It seems "designer puppies" are quite the rage.....a very popular and desired pup to get.

Many are mixing ...yorkie/chihuahua.......yorkie/poodle.......poodle/retriever........etc.....
just to get certain prefered qualities from both breeds.

But I also have the feeling many puppies from these mixed breedings do not turn out quite as expected by following many rescue sites. The yorkie/chihuahua mix is ADORABLE if the pup has the hair and face of the yorkie..but the pup with the primary chi features looks like a big eared "bat-dog".

I paid $300 for a yorkie/chihuahua mix several months ago. I did not go out looking for that mix puppy, but came across it by accident and the pup was "pure yorkie" to me....she was adorable .... She died shortly after I got her....her tiny size made treating her impossible.

I do understand mixing certain breeds on purpose.........but why a "blue maltese"????? (PS..I still have not read that thread...)

And....the breeders argument about a bi-racial baby doesn't make sense.....a black person & a white person don't "mate" just to see what kind of baby they get........that's dumb....they get together because they love each other and the children are a natural result. I doubt a yorkie/poodle are capable of making that kind of commitment...

Mixed breeding or not, did you guys see the colored dogs they have? Just doesn't seem right to me!

http://royalpuppies.com/bloopers.htm

After all the celebrities flaunting off their dogs on television with lavish lifestyles and dogs that are carried around with diamonds on their neck in expensive purses being dyed different colors to match outfits, blue and pink dyed Maltese's look like, to me, some sort of fashion statement because that's how celebrities do it.

I would never judge Biddy! It isn't her fault and I'm sure she is adorable!! I just think breeders should be responsible for improving a breed...not mixing them!



Excerpt from Dog forum article on Breeder Red Flags:

* He won't let you see the puppy's parents (the father may not always on site, this is normal).
* He won't let you see his breeding facility.
* He can not produce registration papers for the parents.
* He does not have the registration papers for the current litter of puppies.

* He has no pedigrees on either of the parents.
* None of his puppies come with guarrantees.
* None of his dogs have been checked for genetic diseases.
* None of his dogs have been OFA'd.
* None of his dogs have been CERFed.
* He does not want to know if anything has happened to your dog (that came from him).
* He breeds a lot of unrecognized breeds - Cock-a-poos, Spoodles, Labradoodles and the like.
* No veterinary health checks of the puppies from birth.
* No mandatory spaying/neutering of pet quality animals.
* No mandatory vaccinations (at least basic ones), no de-worming.
* Breeding solely for "pet quality" means breeding for money - not for the betterment of anything.
* Does not breed to better the overall conformation or working style of the breed.
* Does not know the history of his chosen breed.
* His dogs appear to be in ill-health.
* He always has puppies for sale, sometimes two or three litters at a time.
* Does not have veterinary records for at least the mother on hand.
* His dogs have no titles, either showing, working, or sports, whatever the animals are being bred for.
* He won't give references from owners of pups from previous litters.
* He doesn't ask any questions about the environment you offer the pup, just wants to see the cheque (and prefers cash).
* The puppies are ready to go before they should be (under eight weeks of age). Advertises "rare" colors, sizes, etc (such as "rare" white Dobermans, or Great Danes, "king-sized" German Shepherds, etc.)
* Advertises or sells their pups for greatly reduced prices
* . Sells to pet stores, puppy brokers, wholesalers, etc.
* Breeds before the age of two.

I'm sorry I don't want to argue but really where on this web site does it state that she does or doesn't do any of these things?? Other then breeding mixed breeds?? Ok so you don't agree with people breeding mixed breeds on purpose that doesn't mean everyone who does is running a puppy mill and mis-treating their animals..

okay
 

I hope you folks don't get angry with me:

Here goes:

Yorkies wouldn't be here today if someone hadn't tried and experimented.

The same goes for all of the "breeds". Just because a group of people get together and call it a breed and form a club doesn't make it special- it is about control.

Many of our breeds today are ruined. Check out the life expectancy on the incredible Bernese Mountain dog.

As long as these breeders have:

1. a market
2. and they take care of their animals

We should understand that we owe the Yorkshire to someone who did this same thing a long time ago.

If we do not agree, then tolerance of our differences should be first. It is what makes the world more intelligent and peaceful.


My 2 cents,

deborah

The good thing about YT is we can disagree and still be friends! :)

LOL! :p

True. It would be very boring if we all had the same opinion on everything.

i saw the cutest yorkie-chi mix the other day. I think as long as the health of a dog is not compromised it is not a bad thing. After all many pure breeds today are the result of mixing other breeds together. I had a lab-shep mix when I was younger that was just the best. I purchased him for 200.00 because at the time I could not afford a purebred shepherd. so imo as long as a breeder does not compromise a dogs health i see nothing wrong.

Just a little info on what it takes to create a new breed. Excerpt taken from Poo-dogs and Designer Mutts::

1) These are NOT breeds. No matter what anyone says, they are CROSSES, MUTTS, MONGRELS - whatever name you decide to call them. It take many, many generations of careful breeding to develop a strain that breeds true when bred to another of its type and then more work to prove it is a pure breeding type and may be able to be recognized by a legitimate registry as a breed. Every time you add in a new dog to the mix that is not of the strain you are trying to develop, you set back that breeding program and have to work out the undesired traits brought in while trying to maintain the desired traits established.. Simply, three, four or even five generations of breeding say a Sheltiepoo to other Sheltiepoos without bringing in any other pure Shelties or Poodles will NOT create a new breed. It may take decades of dedicated breeding to even get a strain to breed true to desired type.

Just for some more controversy for you guys....I once dyed my hair a light burgundy, and with the leftover dye, I dyed one of my gurls to match! I just did it on her head, where it was really long! It was too cute! And she didn't mind it one bit....she always like it when I do things to her, like putting jackets and boots on, etc. Everywhere I took her, people would look and ask. She loves the attention, it didn't hurt her one bit, I was very careful not to get it in her eyes, and it wore off in about a month. :p

This is just a statment, but in one point in time most of the breeds have been mixed with other breeds. What do you think a Yorkshire Terrier is?The Yorkshire Terrier originated from Yorkshire, the North of England. The Yorkshire Terrier's history started in the middle of the 19 centuries. The onset of the Industrial Revolution being in England in that time, many former agricultural workers came to Yorkshire to seek work at coal mines, textile mills and factories. Some of them brought their dogs - various types of terrier of that time to catch rats. The crosses between those dogs produced the original Yorkie. At first, the Yorkshire Terrier was a much bigger than today's Yorkie, but by selectively breeding the smallest individuals, the dog was gradually miniaturized over the years. They were made into a toy dog. The Yorkshire Terrier appeared fist time on a dog show in 1870. In 1874 the first the Yorkies were registered in the British Kennel Club stud book.

VERY WELL SAID DEBORAH!! (moonvalley)
If someone hadent decided to mix a few different breeds all those years ago,we wouldent have yorkies today!:) Infact,if we look at it that way,the yorkie also started off as a designer breed;) As I said before,mixing certain breeds isnt a crime or something to get angry about,there are such beautiful mixes out there for those that want them,and for those that dont there are purebreds:) I think its so silly to think that mixes are destroying certain breeds because they arent.When two dogs get together by accident and you dont know what to expect when the pups arrive,then I agree that its sad because you may not be able to find a home for those pups if they arent what someone is looking for..but mixing two beautiful breeds on perpose in order to make certain mixes is just fine with me...why not?;) Breeding purebreds alone doesnt make a great breeder and breeding mixes doesnt mean that the breeder is a bad one either.I honestly think that some breeders go way over the top in their search for perfection,and the red flag article was probably written by a bunch of breeders who are getting their nose bent by the huge demand for mixed breeds that people are paying huge amounts for;)

Okay here goes. We have BOUGHT, ON PURPOSE a Yorkie/Maltese mix and will be picking her up next week. We wanted a second puppy to raise along with Kodah, but my husband & son wanted to try a different breed (but on the small side). (Money had nothing to do with our decision.) Husband grew up with Schnauzers & Poodles & our daughter has a 7 month old chihuahua. We considered a maltese, but I am just anal enough that I was afraid that the grooming and keeping a white coat white would drive me & the dog crazy. So in researching we came across the Yorktese/Morkie & decided that this is the way we wanted to go. (color, size, temperment) We have checked out the breeder, she has given us references & we feel very good about our $$$ going towards this puppy. (I could not believe how hard it was to find this mix once we started looking.) This lady has the papers on her maltese & yorkie & is not trying to pass the puppies off for anything other than what they are - a mix. We want a companion for Kodah & don't see any difference in paying the BIG bucks for another yorkie or less for a good pet!!!! (We have NO INTENTION of ever breeding either!) I certainly don't look at any dog as a "less than" if it's not a pure breed!! I do see the other side of someone just breeding (experimentally) to see what kind of dog they get & asking big $$$ for it making it out to be something it isn't. I hope I'm not looked upon any different because we have made this decision!!! but, even if I am, I still feel good about our choice. :)

Congrats!!! I love morkies!!! (yorkie/maltese mix) I think theyre gorgeous! I was using that mix in particular as an example in my other posts on this thread.Two wonderful breeds put together to make the perfect dog:)