Controversial email with royalpuppies.com

[eensor]

Please see my apology to Royal puppies.

[whispersmom2]

WHEW!!!!! I just finished reading all the posts on this thread! There are statements I agree with and there are some I would dispute. The one that jumps out at me that I would dispute states that mixed breeds have fewer health problems. Actually, they stand a chance of having the worst health problems of BOTH breeds..When we mix breed we are taking more chances of undesirable outcomes but, hey, I don't pay the prices to buy them and I don't pay their vet bills. The biggest problem I have is with breeders and pet shops and etc, who represent their mixed breeds as purebreeds and charge ungodly prices. I would love to say that there is money in breeding the way I do but the truth is, most, if not all, hobby breeders are always in doggie RED..
Let's set our sights on animal abusers who keep hundreds of dogs in the worst of conditions, and sell them thru brokers to pet stores who don't give a rat's ass who buys them or what happens to them after they leave the store..I start to tear up when I even think about them. Then we can direct our energies toward making a difference in the lives of those poor animals and feel our duty to them is to bring their plight to the public every time and wat we can.

[Mydogkelsey]

I have a yorkie-poodle and i think she is the greatest companion yet. She is so loving and gentle....most traits of a yorkie, with a few from the poodle breed. I am in love with this mixed breed and couldn't of asked for a better dog!

[LvMyYorki]

I would just like to say that this is my first post and will probably be my last because I am so appalled and am absolutely stunned right now by some of the misinformation that is being posted in this thread. It was one thing when I read where a member (non-breeder) posted about Yorkshire Terriers being descendants or crossed with a Maltese back when the breed was being established, that was oen thing because she probably just hasn't educated herself about the ancestry of her dogs, which is fine, as most people don't. BUT when I read the post from someone that claimed to be a "breeder" and everything that she posted about the history of the breed was completely 110% inaccurate, I just couldn't believe it. A breeder should know how the breed that they are breeding was established. If you don't know, then you shouldn't say anything! Before you post in an attempt to educate others about the history of the breed, you should get the facts straight. You should not act like you know what you are talking about when you don't. Its no wonder you are breeding mutts.

For anyone that is interested... The Yorkshire Terrier was manufactured from the Waterside, Clydesdale and Paisley Terriers. Huddersfield Ben (first Yorkie) was produced in 1850 from the mating of Swift's Old Crab (a Clydesdale or Waterside Terrier) and Kershaw's Old Kitty (a Paisley Terrier). The silk coat does not come from the Maltese, it comes from the Waterside. The white comes from the Broken-Coated Scottish Terrier, not from the Maltese. Yorkies were bred for the ratting abilities, this being the "job" of the Yorkie has to do with its size, not about beng a lap dog or having anything to do with a Maltese. (That statement posted by the breeder doesnt even make sense!) The weight and size of Yorkies were completely unpredictable even after the breed was introduced to American breeders. The development oif the petite size came from the continued mating of two related lines.

[whispersmom2]

For anyone that is interested... The Yorkshire Terrier was manufactured from the Waterside, Clydesdale and Paisley Terriers. Huddersfield Ben (first Yorkie) was produced in 1850 from the mating of Swift's Old Crab (a Clydesdale or Waterside Terrier) and Kershaw's Old Kitty (a Paisley Terrier). The silk coat does not come from the Maltese, it comes from the Waterside. The white comes from the Broken-Coated Scottish Terrier, not from the Maltese. Yorkies were bred for the ratting abilities, this being the "job" of the Yorkie has to do with its size, not about beng a lap dog or having anything to do with a Maltese. (That statement posted by the breeder doesnt even make sense!) The weight and size of Yorkies were completely unpredictable even after the breed was introduced to American breeders. The development oif the petite size came from the continued mating of two related lines.

Well, I have looked at only two of my Yorkie history books but both agree thatHuddersfield Ben was NOT born in 1850 as we peons have just been informed. He was actually born in 1865. The history of the Yorkie started in Scotland and worked its way into the Yorkshire area of England. Also, both books attribute the texture of the Yorkie as most likely produced when Maltese (which is a much older breed) was introduced into the breeding of rough-coated black and tans with what was either the Skye Terrier, the ClydesdaleOR Paisley Terriers and breeding was continued. In 1865 H. Ben was born and in 1870 , Mozart, a son of H.Ben won 1st in the Variety Class at the Westminster Dog show. A reporter wrote in his critique of the show" They ought no longer be called Scotch Terriers, but YORKSHIRE Terriers!" The name stuck.
I am sure if I had the time to research several more books I would find more "facts" that are questionable. Swift's Old Crab was a black and tan terrier with a long coat, while Kershaws Old Kitty was a drop-eared Skye, stolen from Manchester and later owned by Kershaw.
H. Ben descends from these 2 dogs and the pedigree dates back to 1850 but he was whelped in 1865 and was first shown inDec 1869 at the Manchester show.

[red98vett]

Well both those last 2 posts were very interesting ! I would love to know where you find out this kind of information - can you recommend books or a site to read ?

[LvMyYorki]

I apologize for the misstatement on the year 1850. You are completely accurate about the H Ben being whelped in 1865. I have read many books on the ancestry of the breed. I am sure you are familiar with Joan Gordon and if you have any questions about the maltese being crossed with the Yorkie, you should read her statements regarding why this did not happen.

[natalie]

It was one thing when I read where a member (non-breeder) posted about Yorkshire Terriers being descendants or crossed with a Maltese back when the breed was being established, that was oen thing because she probably just hasn't educated herself about the ancestry of her dogs, which is fine, as most people don't.

I have spent the last 2 hours educating myself on the Yorkshire Terrier breed history, as I had never thought about it before.. everything I read through suggested that there was Maltese in the Yorkie bloodline dating back to the 19th century. I'm slightly confused, because LvMyYorki is abhorred by the "misinformation" about Maltese in the Yorkie bloodline... but, isn't there? There can't be two sides to solid history.


An excerpt:


Yorkshire Terrier
Family: terrier
Place of Origin: England
Date of Origin: 1800s
Avg Size of Male: Height: 8-9 inches Weight: <7 pounds
Avg Size of Female: Height: 8-9 inches Weight: <7 pounds
Original Function: small vermin-hunting
Primary Current Function: companion
Other Name: none


History of the Breed
The Yorkshire Terrier is a breed that is a purposeful mix of other terriers most likely including the Waterside Terrier, Clydesdale Terrier, Paisley Terrier, rough-coated English Black and Tan Terrier, and perhaps even the Skye Terrier, Dandie Dinmont Terrier, and Maltese. The Waterside Terrier a small, longhaired dog that is blue-gray in color is the most prominent breed in the modern Yorkie. This elegant-looking dog is a product of the working class and was originally bred to catch rats. Initially it was looked down upon by the upper class, however its obvious beauty soon swayed the skeptics. Soon the tiny dogs were appearing in dog shows and on the laps of affluent mistresses. In 1872, the first Yorkshire Terrier was born in America, however by the 1880s the breed varied in size from 7 to as much as 14 pounds. Breeders and fanciers in both America and over seas decided that the smaller size with longer hair was preferred, and soon the Yorkie grew into the tiny dog with the lavishly long coat that it is today.



Another excerpt:


The breed is only 100 years old or so, but its origins are not entirely certain - probably because the working men of north England, who developed the Yorkshire Terrier for catching the terrible rats that infested the mine shafts and as a hunting dog that could penetrate into badger and fox burrows, avoided divulging the secret of their success to those who might have cashed in on a lucrative side line. However, it seems likely that Scotsmen seeking work in the woolen mills of Yorkshire brought with them various types of terrier, including the Skye and the now extinct Clydesdale. These were then crossed with local types, such as the long- haired Leeds Terrier. The Maltese, Black & Tan Manchester, and Dandie Dinmont Terriers may also have contributed blood lines. At first, the Yorkie was a much bigger animal than the one we see today, but by selectively breeding the smallest individuals, the dog was gradually miniaturized over the years. They were made into a fashion dog. Women carried these little dogs in their bags and under their arms. The first Yorkshire, with the characteristics demanded by its standard today, appeared in a dog show in 1870.

[natalie]

I looked up Joan B. Gordon and came up with the book "The New Complete Yorkshire Terrier" and found summarized excerpts:

Today's Yorkshire Terrier is very different from the early Yorkshire Terriers of the North of England. There are varying accounts of the origins of this breed and its development. Before 1750, most British people worked in agriculture. The onset of the Industrial Revolution brought great changes to family life. In Yorkshire, small communities grew up around coal mines, textile mills and factories. People were drawn to these areas to seek work from as far away as Scotland. They brought with them a breed known as the Clydesdale Terrier, or Paisley Terrier. These were primarily working dogs, much larger than today's Yorkies, and were used for catching rats and other small mammals. These terriers were inevitably crossed with other types of terrier, probably the English Black and Tan Toy Terrier, and the Skye Terrier; it is also thought that at some stage the Maltese Terrier was crossed with these breeds to help produce long coats. As the outline of the Maltese resembles that of many of today's Yorkies, this is very likely. Unfortunately, no records in the form of Pedigrees exist to confirm these crosses (possibly because of the poor level of literacy in these times), but a great deal is known about the type of people who bred them, and there can be no doubt that early breeders had a very clear idea of the type of dogs they were attempting to produce. We can see in today's Yorkies how strongly the terrier temperament has been retained.

[moonvalley]

Red98vett:

http://www.doggroups.com/breeds/item...errier_history
http://www.carstensens.com/thecave/yorkie.htm#history

Lvmyyorki:

The history of the yorkshire is poorly documented, and the sources vary slightly. Educating folks is nice. But why would you not want to stick around and help people?

Seek understanding, peace and joy with the little ones, we all were there once.

Deborah

[LvMyYorki]

I have read the entire book and Ms. Gordon is very clear that "authorities" throw in the Maltese in an attempt to explain a silk coat and that the reasoning behind this is not at all solid. If you are very interested in the lineage of the breed, you would love her book as it delves into the fine details of each breed and the role it played in the Yorkies we know today.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am at a loss as to why everyone is so upset by the fact that the Maltese was not crossed in the manufacture of the Yorkshire Terrier. If it has anything to do with the fact that the breeder that the thread was started about is crossing Yorkies and Maltese, and you agree with her, then I don't understand why you are directing your comments towards me. I too have other books on the history of the breed that have the same misinformation that was posted earlier. I too can google and post summaries and excerpts from the internet, but I would imagine anyone would be hard pressed to find anyone that is more knowledgable about the breed in its entirely than Joan Gordon.

[Shelbies heart]

Whispers mom, you are very rite, we should focus more on abbused dogs and not on someone that treats her animals well, I respect both Eensor and Royalyorkies. Everyone has the rite to her oppinion, I think that is what the forum is about. Please lets all forgive and forget and Welcome Royal Yorkies and Give our Eensor our love too! This is a great place

[Shelbies heart]

Really!! who cares if Maltese is in the bloodline, All we really need to know is we love our Furbabies! It doesn't matter who is rite or wrong, Lets just all get along

[ReconsMomma]

Im just going to throw my 2 cents in here and say that IN MY OPINION, this thread should be allowed to just fade into the background and left alone. Apologies have been made. We have all read books and will continue to research the breed. There is no need to keep stirring the kettle cause the heat has been turned off.


Let it rest.....................




(PLEASE NOTICE THE "IN MY OPINION")

[ReconsMomma]

Shelbies Heart- I agree with you and just want you to know that my last post wasnt pointed at you..............