What Should Be Done With "Pet Store Puppies"?

[sashajade]

if the paper work ie licence was cheaper if dog is spayed then maybe more people would have it done so they would save money. if you think how much people pay these days for a pedigree pup its just silly and what makes one breed worth more than the next, set the price for all breeds take some of the money the breeders make by having all pups have a liecence make it law for a vet to vist each breeders home before signing paper work and then in time the lifes of these poor babies might get better.

[momofreese]

My family and I were those that were "innocently ignorant" and purchased Reese from a local petshop. I had never known about puppymills but I did know a lot of people from my town who purchased their dogs from this petshop. I did make the decision to finally purchase a yorkie for my daughters and myself. We went into this store, which by the way is spotless, smells at times (although I think any home/business that had 40 to 50 dogs would have some type of unpleasant odor), extremely nice owner, large cages and many play areas for the dogs..etc etc.

We fell madly in love with Reese and purchased her and when she turned 7 months I realized that something was wrong with her. Suddenly when I held her, at all times, she would whimper. After practically forcing my vet to xray her, she was diagnosed with legg perthes. She also has developed a collapsed trachea or a weak traccea since when she is wearing her harness and walking.. which isn't too often since she prefers to be carried, she will as we call it honk continuously.

When we were told that she "probably" had legg perthes the owner of the store immediately asked us if we wanted to exchange her. I thought he was nuts. I had told him that after hour one, we were madly in love with her and would NEVER think of disposing of her like she was a pair of torn shoes that I would bring back to the store for an immediate refund. He did say he agreed and felt that he had to offer that option. He then told me he would return her entire purchase price and paid over $700.00 for several vet visits and a visit to a specialist.

Now I am not CONDONING pet shop purchases, nor will I ever do it again. I have become extremely outspoken about the puppymill/pet shop situation but I will not badmouth this particular owner. I will not recommend buying a dog from his shop, but by no means will I badmouth him. I feel that he did a lot more than many reputable breeders would have done. Since we are looking to purchase another yorkie I have been reading breeder contracts and have noticed that most will give you a one year guarantee on congenital defects and if one is found they will A. exchange the puppy
or
B. pay for vet charges for UP to the purchase
price of the puppy.
I am not a maven on this subject and please forgive me if I am misquoting what a possible YT breeders contract states, but I am merely stating what is in the majority of the contracts that I have read.

I know I am going off topic but I am coming to the question.. well maybe part of the intended question. The answer to your question is not a direct answer. As many already have stated the problem is not what will happen to those puppies already in the shops. They will be purchased or they will be rescued if they reach the age where they become less saleable. I have spoken to the owner of the shop where Reese was purchased, since I now am less ignorant than what I was. I asked him what he does with the older pups who do not get sold.. he said the majority of the puppies are sold. They will continue to reduce the price until they are sold. In the rare situation when even a reduced puppy does not get sold, he either gives them to the "In house" vet and he will adopt it out to one of his workers or patients family, or he does work with several rescue groups who he will surrender the puppy too.

That is the way that this owner operates. Again, I do not agree with his overall practices. I do not agree with anyone selling a living creature for a profit. And yes I am sure he pays about $50 to $100 for each of these puppies, maybe $200 at most from these mills and then turns around and sells them for $1500. I would say that is a huge profit.

But the Petshop like others said is NOT the main problem. The mills are the source of the problem and only the mill. Like others have said, if the mill was not able to breed these dogs the shops wouldnt have any inventory.. end of story. Local agencies have tried to get involved and have gone undercover to shut these mills down, but unfortunately there are always ways around it, due to the inaffective laws.

Getting the word out to others as ignorant as I was, of course will help to some degree, but certainly it will not put a dent in the nationwide problem. The laws surrounding all breeders have to be made far stricter than they are. Regardless if you are a private breeder or mill, I personally feel that stricter guidelines have to be put in place, state by state and then countrywide. The ignorant buyer is NOT the cause of this devasting problem, they are a minor component. Even the shop and the vets who work with the individual shops are not the cause of the devastation.. the MILLS and those who do not spay and neuter their dogs are the MAIN reason for the overpopulation and for all of the unhealthy dogs, ie: Reese who enter this world.

I do NOT regret the day that we walked into that petshop for one darn second. I would have never been blessed with one of the biggest joys of my life. With all of her illnesses she has added so much happiness to our family. I have spent a small fortune and probably will continue to do so..since I hope she will be with us for the next hundred years. Whatever it takes to make her comfortable and happy, we will do. For all of her health issues she makes up for it with the most incredible personality.

So in answer to your question.. don't worry about the puppies in the "window" of those stores... worry about the mills and getting the word out to your congressman to have the breeding laws changed.

Sorry for the long winded post, but I tend to get very emotional about this subject.

[JiggityJig]

I appreciate your post (and a previous one) pointing out that the MILLS are the root of the problem, not the petshops, and of course that is true. I'm not trying to be argumentative, since I basically agree with everything you sd., except that I strongly disagree with THIS:

The ignorant buyer is NOT the cause of this devasting problem, they are a minor component.

The buyers are the ONLY thing keeping the mills in business, aren't they? Or am I missing something? They may not be the ONLY component in the problem, but they are certainly a NECESSARY component. Take away the demand=no need for supply=the mill business dies. Yes?

And again, I probably come across as more dogmatic on this subject than I intend to. Some people feel passionately enough that they refuse to buy ANYTHING from a pet store that sells ANY animal. I find that admirable, but I'm not at that point myself, yet. But on the other extreme, it just sort of crawls all over me when people talk about "rescuing" an animal from a petshop. NO! All you've done is contribute to putting MORE animals in the exact same situation, and worse.

But again, good points that anyone passionately interested in "helping" the animals in pet shops could focus their efforts, not just on educating the public, and influencing the market (by refusing $$$), but by also lobbying for stricter laws, and contacting authorities about abuse cases you learn of, etc. Again....I'm not personally at that point yet myself, but for anyone saddened by the sad eyes of "that doggie in the window", striking at the ROOT of the problem is the only effective solution.

[momofreese]

In a perfect world I would agree with you that if everyone stopped buying from mills/petshops this problem would be alleviated, unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world.

We can say this about every crisis worldwide. If everyone would stop buying drugs from major drug lords the drug crisis in schools nationwide would be ended. While the authorities attempt to crack down on large drug dealers as well as small time dealers, the problem will never really go away. While we continue to educate our children at home and school about the negative impact drugs will have on them, unfortunately we still have a huge teenage drug use.

We can try to stop prostitution by instilling steeper penalties for the prostitutes and their customers, but we will still have those who will prostitute themselves and those who will look to pay for sex.

I can go on and on and on with different situations where stiffer laws have been put in place and where people have said.. it is all supply and demand..."if we arrest people, if judges give out huge citations etc.. it still doesn't put a dent into any exisiting problems.

Like many have already said, mills will probably always exist (even if stricter laws were put in place), pet shops therefore will also always exist, and customers such as myself will always exist too. The only hope that this cause has is that people will become more knowledgeable over time, by joining sites like YT or hearing others horror stories such as my own. Maybe the 100 or 200 people if not more that I told my story to will think twice about purchasing a dog from a petshop. Right now we are lucky and Reese is doing great, but don't think I am not breathing a sigh of releif each morning when I see her wake up to run into the kitchen (without a limp) to partake in her favorite activity.. EATING!!!. I only hope that we are one of the lucky few who have purchased a dog that came from a miserable situation, but somehow through the grace of GD stays healthy and happy for many more years to come.

You are right.. I as many buyers do.. add to the problem. All I am saying is if the mill didn't exist, I wouldn't have been able to purchase her. Sadly enough on the other hand.. if they didn't exist I would have never been lucky enough to have Reese in our family. So I still do believe that the buyers are only a small part of this problem. I suppose it is like the old question.. which came first the chicken or the egg. I do see your point that if the buyer wasn't a willing and able party.. the mills would go out of business. I just do not see the amount of pet shop buyers diminishing in the very near future.

Sorry to again go off your topic of what will happen to the pet shop dogs.. all I can tell you is that most of them seem to be sold.

[momofreese]

I am sorry but since I can't seem to shut my mouth or get my hands tied in this case.. I have one last question.

Please keep in mind that Reese is our first dog.. I do not have any experience with breeders nor do I claim to know what are common practices but I will ask one question.

Why do breeders sell their animals to others, who probably have zero experience in breeding dogs? Wouldn't that too alleviate the problem of too many dogs, too many dogs bred under the wrong conditions, and the probability of dogs having various illnesses. Even if the bloodlines of the initial dogs are checked out by the reputable breeder, isn't it at all possible for some diseases/problems to show up in later generations. If a reputable breeder allows their dog to be bred by others, isn't this another added potential problem?

How does a breeder insure the quality of her/his pups down the road? Again please do not fault me for going off the topic (which I have clearly done now) and please do not fault me for once again being ignorant on breeding practices. It would just seem better to me if we had a group of licensed breeders who were required to do all testings necessary to insure quality pups, be monitored as most human daycare centers hopefully should or do get monitored, etc.. and leave it to the experts, instead of allowing anyone and everyone the ability to breed animals.

Why not force spay neuter contracts regardless of how healthy that particular puppy is?

Sorry if I am offending anyone, that is certainly not my intent. I would just like to try to understand all issues surrounding the problem of animals that are poorly bred.

[JiggityJig]

Originally Posted by momofreese

In a perfect world I would agree with you that if everyone stopped buying from mills/petshops this problem would be alleviated, unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world....what will happen to the pet shop dogs.. all I can tell you is that most of them seem to be sold.

OH, ok, I see what you're saying. And I tried to make the same point earlier too...if YOU pass up the petshop animal, MORE THAN LIKELY someone else will purchase it within the month. So yes, I agree that without (or maybe even with) stricter laws, mills will always exist. And as long as it's legal, some petshops WILL sell animals, and some people WILL buy them.

And again, I don't judge anyone who has stumbled into owning a petshop pet....I'm ecstatic for ANY person and animal who find each other and make a true love match. We bought our first guinea pig in a petshop, before I knew about the horrible overpopulation problem of guinea pigs, and that there are entire shelters devoted to them. And if you think dog people can be passionate about rescuing, you should meet the guinea pig fanatics. They take no prisoners.

Re: your post about spay/neuter contracts (if I'm reading your question correctly)--I'm no expert either, but from what I understand many reputable breeders DO spay/neuter before selling their animals, or else it's required in the contract (won't provide papers without proof of spay, etc)

[momofreese]

I suppose some will ask us to go private, although I hope that won't be the case, since I think others input would be very helpful. I also believe that going off topic but still dealing with the same main problem ( pet shop puppies/mills) is just as interesting and educational.

I did not think that breeders normally do sell their pups with a spay/neuter contract. Again I could be very wrong. I was under maybe the false impression that the only time they did sell under those conditions is if the puppy is deemed to be pet quality. I again do not know if I am speaking the truth but I have only read a few that was sold on a limited.. something.. can't think of the word.. I apologize I am getting quite tired.

I thought that if the pet is considered show quality and meets with all of the appropriate yorkie standards they can be bred by others. I have no idea how extensive of a check the original breeder could do to see if the buyer is a qualified breeder. What determines that? Would a vet reference as to them being a good mommy or dad speak for their breeding abilities? I just do not know, but also feel that I have run into more than my share of breeders that had horrible living conditions for the animals and themselves, had no idea what they were doing, let the pups leave their moms at under even eight weeks old etc.

All I am saying is that there are so many facets of this problem. I again will NEVER purchase from a pet shop but with all of my friends and sisters research for a great breeder, they both ended up with two sickly dogs. I just think that the problem goes way beyond the ignorant buyer and pet shop owner.

Thanks for taking so much time in responding to me and for whoever started the thread, sorry I posted such long responses and went totally off the theme of the thread.

[JiggityJig]

No problem, and don't you know all the best threads go off-topic?

Maybe you can go to the breeder forum and ask what theythink the usual spay/neuter contract is, both with reputable and irreputable breeders.

[ssguzzy]

It is very hard to resist that puppy in the window. I know I have been tempted many times to save a pet shop puppy. I notice that majority of the pet shops by me sell "akc" puppies thus charging more for the pups. I think if the akc made it so that you can only register a certian amount of litters per female per year that maybe it would help a bit.

[scrapindee]

I posted on this subject, sort of a few weeks ago when I discussed trying to sue the puppy broker/miller/store that we got a dog from.

She buys the dogs for $300 and sells them for $1500-3000 for a yorkie, maltese, or any other small breed. She has a reputation for selling sick dogs but she is selling puppy mill dogs. Everyone needs to stop buying from pet stores. And I like the regulations posted above which would stop the puppy mills--time for the kennel clubs,AkC and governments to get involved.