Tail Docking - Barbaric or Preventative?

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by pstinard

There was a long discussion on neutering here: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...f-ever-31.html

Most of the studies on the bad effects of neutering involve large-breed dogs, and may not be applicable to Yorkies. The consensus we reached by the end of the long, long thread is that for female Yorkies, it's best to have them spayed after their growth plates have closed, but before their first heat, around 8 months of age. (X-rays can be taken to determine if the growth plates have closed.)

UC Davis will be releasing the results of a new study on the effects of spay/neutering of 30 breeds of dogs on June 26. I do not know if Yorkies are included, but I'll give an update if I can find the information.

Here is my update on the UC Davis conference. The link to the talk abstracts is here: 2017 International Society for Anthrozoology Conference | Continuing Education

Of particular interest is this talk by Ben Hart: http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ce/loc...tract_hart.pdf .

The abstract says:

Giving the Owner Data-base Guidelines on When & If to Spay or Neuter a Dog

Benjamin L Hart, DVM, PhD, DACVB and Lynette A. Hart, PhD
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California
-Davis, Davis, California

Abstract

A broad overview, representing over 30 breeds will be presented. In essence, some breeds, including the Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, and German Shepherd Dog, have an increased risk of a joint disorder with spay/neuter before 1 year (early), ranging from 2 to 4 times that of neutering later. In small breed dogs, there is no increased risk. The increased risk for cancers, especially with lymphoma, occurs in several breeds with early spay/neuter.

So to emphasize, for small breed dogs, there is no increased risk of joint disorders with spay/neutering.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by pstinard

There was a long discussion on neutering here: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...f-ever-31.html

Most of the studies on the bad effects of neutering involve large-breed dogs, and may not be applicable to Yorkies. The consensus we reached by the end of the long, long thread is that for female Yorkies, it's best to have them spayed after their growth plates have closed, but before their first heat, around 8 months of age. (X-rays can be taken to determine if the growth plates have closed.)

UC Davis will be releasing the results of a new study on the effects of spay/neutering of 30 breeds of dogs on June 26. I do not know if Yorkies are included, but I'll give an update if I can find the information.

The growth plates still close after spaying and neutering so I'm not sure why waiting for them to close is an issue. I think bigger dogs and smaller dogs are very different and grow different. I know the thread. In general most people are not able to fully handle an intact dog. My youngest I got at 8 months spayed a few days after she turned 9 months and it would appear she had a heat with her previous owners. What I have read and gone over in class I feel spaying and neutering is generally better for pet health and pet overpopulation. I just was blown away by the statement that tail docking is better then getting your dog fixed. There is an actual per pose for getting your dog fixed and health reason and none of that is there for tail docking.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Here is my update on the UC Davis conference. The link to the talk abstracts is here: 2017 International Society for Anthrozoology Conference | Continuing Education

Of particular interest is this talk by Ben Hart: http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ce/loc...tract_hart.pdf .

The abstract says:

Giving the Owner Data-base Guidelines on When & If to Spay or Neuter a Dog

Benjamin L Hart, DVM, PhD, DACVB and Lynette A. Hart, PhD
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California
-Davis, Davis, California

Abstract

A broad overview, representing over 30 breeds will be presented. In essence, some breeds, including the Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, and German Shepherd Dog, have an increased risk of a joint disorder with spay/neuter before 1 year (early), ranging from 2 to 4 times that of neutering later. In small breed dogs, there is no increased risk. The increased risk for cancers, especially with lymphoma, occurs in several breeds with early spay/neuter.

So to emphasize, for small breed dogs, there is no increased risk of joint disorders with spay/neutering.

Since we are a small breed message forum I feel like that needs to be out there. Thanks for the update.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

The growth plates still close after spaying and neutering so I'm not sure why waiting for them to close is an issue. I think bigger dogs and smaller dogs are very different and grow different. I know the thread. In general most people are not able to fully handle an intact dog. My youngest I got at 8 months spayed a few days after she turned 9 months and it would appear she had a heat with her previous owners. What I have read and gone over in class I feel spaying and neutering is generally better for pet health and pet overpopulation. I just was blown away by the statement that tail docking is better then getting your dog fixed. There is an actual per pose for getting your dog fixed and health reason and none of that is there for tail docking.

Growth plate closure is delayed by removal of the sex hormones caused by spaying/neutering, so I think that's what the issue was. (See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2045340 ). The theory is that if the growth plates don't close at the right time, the ratio of the length of the leg bones will be altered, possibly leading to an increase in susceptibility to CCL tears. Evidently, that is more of a problem with large breed dogs, not small breeds like Yorkies. There are other risks/benefits to consider as well, but I agree with you that the preponderance of evidence favors spaying/neutering of Yorkies. And, like you, I'm perplexed that spaying/neutering was brought into a discussion on tail docking. (Sorry that I helped contribute to the thread hijack.)

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Going by how many dogs we euthanize every year how could you be against spaying and neutering? It is much better for females to be spayed. I suppose there could be argument about males but it keeps them safe from doing very dangerous things to get to females in heat.

Euthanization is a separate issue to long term health of dogs. I am not against a reasoned judicious and timely neutering, it just not should be automatic policy. All risks need to be assessed as well as we can with the research we have.

I will remind all that many dogs are rescued from foreign countries and brought into our own countries for placement. Why if our pet overpopulation problem is so very bad we bring in yet more excess dogs?

And indiscriminate breeding - surely there can be educational programs and modified s+n procedures put in place? No vets here even attempt to educate owners on how to keep safe an intact dog or what your responsibilities are.

But anyhoo in terms of tail docking - it will be what it will be according to public opinion - I like docked tails and I like long tails - but docked for some breeds are very much more convenient and safer for me as the owner - just like neutering is more convenient for the owner.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

Euthanization is a separate issue to long term health of dogs. I am not against a reasoned judicious and timely neutering, it just not should be automatic policy. All risks need to be assessed as well as we can with the research we have.

I will remind all that many dogs are rescued from foreign countries and brought into our own countries for placement. Why if our pet overpopulation problem is so very bad we bring in yet more excess dogs?

And indiscriminate breeding - surely there can be educational programs and modified s+n procedures put in place? No vets here even attempt to educate owners on how to keep safe an intact dog or what your responsibilities are.

But anyhoo in terms of tail docking - it will be what it will be according to public opinion - I like docked tails and I like long tails - but docked for some breeds are very much more convenient and safer for me as the owner - just like neutering is more convenient for the owner.

Most general owners in my opinion couldn't handle an intact dog it's just to inconvenient for them specifically large breeds who I see a lot chained outside or considered outside dogs that never come in. I think most vets stand strong by spaying and neutering when pups probably because they have seen what happens when they are not. Vets especially emergency vets get to see some pretty terrible stuff and some of it has to do with breeding and such. My instructor has told us some of these pretty bad stories, she was an ER tech for over 10 years.