Wanted - VERY small girl to buy!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Thank you, Ann, for your beautiful, level head as always.

Regarding opinions regarding my opinion and with all due respect, I'm not interested. I do not require external validation of my opinions which probably sounds harsh and arrogant in type but it's not meant to be as it's merely fact.

Under normal circumstances and as has previously been demonstrated, I consider myself an extremely confident but fair and objective person. However, as is probably glaringly apparent, I am upset and angry that members have requested pics etc. of this puppy all the while minimizing the fact that it has potentially come from an overseas puppy mill in an effort to appease a misguided humans feelings. Further to that, I am disappointed that more people have not come on here to state, explicitly, why puppy mills should not be supported by ANYONE. I do not agree with this method for obtaining Yorkshire Terriers or any other animal and no amount of persuasion will change that stance. In reality, I believe this website should be a beacon of education as this post will no doubt be stored in archives at some point and it would be a shame if it was used as justification by others to obtain puppies using dubious methods on the basis that some people have expressed that it's ok when it absolutely is not. Hence, my comment made regarding donations etc.

As I stated before, I wish the puppy luck and hope that no one else chooses this method for obtaining puppies or any other animal under the impression that it is condoned. That is all I have to say - thank you!

Many of us did try. You can lead a horse to water but not make them drink. You can put the info out there but you can't make everyone follow it. She was going to get that puppy no matter what. Now all that is left to do is be here when she needs the help. I doubt she will come back for help now but we should be here for her if issues arise. I have three dogs none came from a yorkie rescue or a reputable breeder. One is about to be 10 and without knowing I bought her from a broker who go their yorkies from a puppy mill obviously I didn't know better. My 1 year old came from a women who said her family was pretty much passing him around her extended family and he wasn't wanted he was 9 weeks old and was on diet adult food when I got him. He had sores from where his eye drainage was never cleaned and he was a matted mess. I saw him on fb and I paid money for him but he was in my mind considered a rescue had no papers or anything. My youngest had been listed on fb also I watched her post for over a week she had been a gift for a 12 year old and the 12 year old didn't want her anymore 8 months old and seriously dirty and had black stuff coming out of her ears and had only been to the vet once in her life and yep I paid cash for her she did have papers but not from a reputable registry and got her to the vet the next day and she had a bad UTI. I didn't get my dogs from reputable breeders, I learned about them here and I still get help with my dogs who didn't come from reputable sources. We should be here to help and unite for the health of our dogs. This might get my butt chewed off but reputable breeders aren't always that great either. The breed standard that some of these breeders for certain breeds breed for are actually causing serious issues with their breeds but they still do it. Yorkies from reputable breeders are coming from breeding dogs with LP. Of course I don't support puppy mills or breeding sick dogs but at the end of the day people get the knowledge here but its up to them what they want to do with it. If they choose to get the dog anyway that's their choice but we should still be here to help because its the dog that will suffer not the human.

[maxdog]

I am one of those people that requested pics. But just because I requested a pic does not mean I condone puppy mills – in fact I agree with you whole heartedly on puppy mills. I despise them. I now know, thanks to this website, that Max and Sasha came from a GREEDER and not a breeder. But that does not mean that I don’t love them with my entire heart and soul. While I wish that no one would ever buy from a puppy mill again and that buying from them only perpetuates the situation now that this puppy has been born he/she deserves all the love and care that is possible. Hopefully the OP has listened to what you and others have to say and down the road if she, or other readers of this site, are ever in the same situation they will make a different decision because of what they have learned here. I know I will.

You insinuated that you were done with this sight and that would be a loss for this sight. I, for one, hope you stay. Your knowledge and opinions, as harshly stated as they may be, are what makes this sight special. To go to another site where everyone agrees with your views would be, IMO, a waste of your life’s experience. You need to stay here and keep yelling at people that puppy mills are wrong. And most likely 99 out of 100 times you will be ignored. But if 1 time you can make a difference then don’t you think it would be worth it?

Like you I have reached the age where I don’t need other people’s approval to feel good. If someone doesn’t like what I do then they can move on. But I hope I never reach the age where I stop learning from other people and trying to pass that knowledge on to others. Yes I asked for a pic and I want to see as many pics as possible as this furbaby grows up. And no that is not an oxymoron. I can hate puppy mills but still love the puppies that come from there. They did not choose where they came from.

I wish you the best.

Bob

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Thank you, Ann, for your beautiful, level head as always.

Regarding opinions regarding my opinion and with all due respect, I'm not interested. I do not require external validation of my opinions which probably sounds harsh and arrogant in type but it's not meant to be as it's merely fact.

Under normal circumstances and as has previously been demonstrated, I consider myself an extremely confident but fair and objective person. However, as is probably glaringly apparent, I am upset and angry that members have requested pics etc. of this puppy all the while minimizing the fact that it has potentially come from an overseas puppy mill in an effort to appease a misguided humans feelings. Further to that, I am disappointed that more people have not come on here to state, explicitly, why puppy mills should not be supported by ANYONE. I do not agree with this method for obtaining Yorkshire Terriers or any other animal and no amount of persuasion will change that stance. In reality, I believe this website should be a beacon of education as this post will no doubt be stored in archives at some point and it would be a shame if it was used as justification by others to obtain puppies using dubious methods on the basis that some people have expressed that it's ok when it absolutely is not. Hence, my comment made regarding donations etc.

As I stated before, I wish the puppy luck and hope that no one else chooses this method for obtaining puppies or any other animal under the impression that it is condoned. That is all I have to say - thank you!

I've been staying away from this thread, because I figured it would have me bashing my head against the wall, and after reviewing it, I'm glad I did stay away. I agree with your comments 100%, and I'm grateful that you stood up to be the voice of reason. Please don't leave Yorkietalk.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I've been staying away from this thread, because I figured it would have me bashing my head against the wall, and after reviewing it, I'm glad I did stay away. I agree with your comments 100%, and I'm grateful that you stood up to be the voice of reason. Please don't leave Yorkietalk.

Agreed, just not much you can do to help a person who doesn't want to listen or be helped. It's called selective hearing(well in this case "selective reading") they came here for advice that they want to read, not the whole 100% unfiltered truth.... so that being said... she's just gonna get offended, probably go to another site and repeat until someone pats her on the back and says she's doing the right thing (even if she isn't).

Really there isn't much point in persisting on this thread.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I've been staying away from this thread, because I figured it would have me bashing my head against the wall, and after reviewing it, I'm glad I did stay away. I agree with your comments 100%, and I'm grateful that you stood up to be the voice of reason. Please don't leave Yorkietalk.

Thanks that means a lot to me. I am uncharacteristically rigid when my fundamental principals are challenged and this was one of those times.

Having someone else see this from my well intentioned perspective has helped and I will stay but a break is warranted. I can't save the world and feel this effort failed which is exhausting.

For the record, my first puppy was a puppy mill puppy and I wish someone would have educated me before that experience. I certainly wouldn't have allowed my ego to ignore advice. I have lost sleep for years thinking of that puppy and its mother. It would be nice to think we'd all want to spare others, animal and human, from that fate.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Thank you, Ann, for your beautiful, level head as always.

Regarding opinions regarding my opinion and with all due respect, I'm not interested. I do not require external validation of my opinions which probably sounds harsh and arrogant in type but it's not meant to be as it's merely fact.

Under normal circumstances and as has previously been demonstrated, I consider myself an extremely confident but fair and objective person. However, as is probably glaringly apparent, I am upset and angry that members have requested pics etc. of this puppy all the while minimizing the fact that it has potentially come from an overseas puppy mill in an effort to appease a misguided humans feelings. Further to that, I am disappointed that more people have not come on here to state, explicitly, why puppy mills should not be supported by ANYONE. I do not agree with this method for obtaining Yorkshire Terriers or any other animal and no amount of persuasion will change that stance. In reality, I believe this website should be a beacon of education as this post will no doubt be stored in archives at some point and it would be a shame if it was used as justification by others to obtain puppies using dubious methods on the basis that some people have expressed that it's ok when it absolutely is not. Hence, my comment made regarding donations etc.

As I stated before, I wish the puppy luck and hope that no one else chooses this method for obtaining puppies or any other animal under the impression that it is condoned. That is all I have to say - thank you!

Wonderful post!!! It's *right* up there with my other favorite post of yours, HERE.

This site *is* a beacon of education - and I know that for a verifiable fact. Look at how many countless times we've seen people post here stating just that --> that they've learned a ton here, that some idea/comment saved/helped their yorkie, that they changed their opinion based upon a heated thread here, that they learned how to care for their yorkie here at YT.

And your opinion here at YT is valued and important...it's part of the "voice" that can create change if/when we have a dialogue happening here. Now, to be fair -- those "dialogues" may not always go well at all - they may get heated, they may get confrontational, feelings *will* get hurt, and people will be challenged to stay calm.

But in the midst of ALL that, if we can all still somehow manage to get our messages across - it's still a win, even if/when it doesn't feel like one. Change / learning can take a LOT of time...but it DOES happen. And you're a big part of enabling that change to happen, so nope, you're not allowed to stop posting ! You are needed here. That is also a verifiable fact !

[canana]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Thanks that means a lot to me. I am uncharacteristically rigid when my fundamental principals are challenged and this was one of those times.

Having someone else see this from my well intentioned perspective has helped and I will stay but a break is warranted. I can't save the world and feel this effort failed which is exhausting.

For the record, my first puppy was a puppy mill puppy and I wish someone would have educated me before that experience. I certainly wouldn't have allowed my ego to ignore advice. I have lost sleep for years thinking of that puppy and its mother. It would be nice to think we'd all want to spare others, animal and human, from that fate.

You know I'm with you on this one! I think making a change for the better will always be an uphill battle. There are a LOT more people who love abnormally tiny dogs out there than people who know better. So, like the others, I hope you won't leave.

I felt the same disappointment and frustration as you with this failure. And it's true we can't save the world. But we can hope to spread the word, one person at a time. Like you, I am also very firmly opinionated on this issue. We need to unite to make a pawsitive difference! This person is only one. I am sure you will be able to help more people going forward with the knowledge you have!

I think that...in this case, the frustration was in the fact that information was provided and still ignored. There's a huge difference between those who didn't know better and ended up with a puppy mill dog - many many many have been there - and someone to actually know better and still go against all precautions and warnings with selfish intentions/mindset. That is the hair-pulling kick-someone-in-the-nuts frustrating part.

There will always be some people who won't ever "get it", not until they face any consequences. There will always be people who think "it'll never happen to me". People are sometimes clouded by what they want and/or external pressures, to listen to actual warnings. Like all the "stay in school" campaigns and the "don't smoke" campaigns, just because there are some high school drop outs and kids who start smoking, it doesn't mean we should stop trying to spread the right message.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by canana

You know I'm with you on this one! I think making a change for the better will always be an uphill battle. There are a LOT more people who love abnormally tiny dogs out there than people who know better. So, like the others, I hope you won't leave.

I felt the same disappointment and frustration as you with this failure. And it's true we can't save the world. But we can hope to spread the word, one person at a time. Like you, I am also very firmly opinionated on this issue. We need to unite to make a pawsitive difference! This person is only one. I am sure you will be able to help more people going forward with the knowledge you have!

I think that...in this case, the frustration was in the fact that information was provided and still ignored. There's a huge difference between those who didn't know better and ended up with a puppy mill dog - many many many have been there - and someone to actually know better and still go against all precautions and warnings with selfish intentions/mindset. That is the hair-pulling kick-someone-in-the-nuts frustrating part.

There will always be some people who won't ever "get it", not until they face any consequences. There will always be people who think "it'll never happen to me". People are sometimes clouded by what they want and/or external pressures, to listen to actual warnings. Like all the "stay in school" campaigns and the "don't smoke" campaigns, just because there are some high school drop outs and kids who start smoking, it doesn't mean we should stop trying to spread the right message.

Mmmm well I mean it's not that the OP and her husband/boyfriend/SO doesn't get it.... clearly they both very much get it.... They just do not give a hoot about facts laid infront of them, the statistics that they probably already know, or our opinions for that matter. Someone claimed I was just assuming when I said it earlier (in the thread) but it's not simply just that...

Even if you're not very knowledgeable about dogs-- I am sure everyone over a certain age has seen one of those commercials on TV that mentions puppy mills (Not a lot- but I've seen a few that have stuck to me when I was younger).

Not sure, but I feel like there's plenty of information out there that's easily accessible and thrown into their faces.. heck over here, basically everyone knows that PA is full of puppy mills and what they are- because at some point they or their friends have had the "pleasure" of dealing with them.

2008 on MSNBC oprah winfrey spoke about them on her talk show.

Some specialty petstores (not the ones that carry dogs) often have signs talking about puppy mills.


Besides, a little common sense and common known knowledge = asia is generally a bad place for a dog to live or come from. In some asian countries dogs are considered food as well. Those asian countries which happen to eat dogs would be China, South Korea(probably the north as well), vietnam, thailand, indonesia, etc.



They're even a frequent topic on news medias... and unless you live under a rock at some point in your life (earlier usually- within the last 3-4 decades) you will have seen them being spoken of and facts with pictures been shown...


The heart-breaking pictures of 1,000 dogs stuffed into cages to be sold as meat... but they've been rescued | Daily Mail Online


Countries that eat dog | Fox News

There's probably more articles around the web if you dig around....

While to some they may just appear as rumors... frankly sometimes rumors have at least some truth to them....

Honestly, call it what you will-- we all know that they know or should know and if they didn't by some "chance"-- they do now and still went on with it.

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by FlyingNimbus

Mmmm well I mean it's not that the OP and her husband/boyfriend/SO doesn't get it.... clearly they both very much get it.... They just do not give a hoot about facts laid infront of them, the statistics that they probably already know, or our opinions for that matter. Someone claimed I was just assuming when I said it earlier (in the thread) but it's not simply just that...

Even if you're not very knowledgeable about dogs-- I am sure everyone over a certain age has seen one of those commercials on TV that mentions puppy mills (Not a lot- but I've seen a few that have stuck to me when I was younger).

Not sure, but I feel like there's plenty of information out there that's easily accessible and thrown into their faces.. heck over here, basically everyone knows that PA is full of puppy mills and what they are- because at some point they or their friends have had the "pleasure" of dealing with them.

2008 on MSNBC oprah winfrey spoke about them on her talk show.

Some specialty petstores (not the ones that carry dogs) often have signs talking about puppy mills.


Besides, a little common sense and common known knowledge = asia is generally a bad place for a dog to live or come from. In some asian countries dogs are considered food as well. Those asian countries which happen to eat dogs would be China, South Korea(probably the north as well), vietnam, thailand, indonesia, etc.



They're even a frequent topic on news medias... and unless you live under a rock at some point in your life (earlier usually- within the last 3-4 decades) you will have seen them being spoken of and facts with pictures been shown...


The heart-breaking pictures of 1,000 dogs stuffed into cages to be sold as meat... but they've been rescued | Daily Mail Online


Countries that eat dog | Fox News

There's probably more articles around the web if you dig around....

While to some they may just appear as rumors... frankly sometimes rumors have at least some truth to them....

Honestly, call it what you will-- we all know that they know or should know and if they didn't by some "chance"-- they do now and still went on with it.

Not sure what you mean by that bolded phrase...majority of pet dogs in Asia are spoiled & pampered like the pet dogs here in the US.

Unless you're talking about the puppy mill dogs? What's more horrifying is that puppy mill dogs in Asia are sold to the dog meat trade once they can't produce puppies anymore. Another reason NOT TO BUY from Korea. Korea is the #1 CAPITAL of puppy mills bc they have NO LAWS.

The dog eating tradition came from China, a very old tradition & it's not a rumor. It is very real...most are trying to eradicate it, it needs to stop.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

Not sure what you mean by that bolded phrase...majority of pet dogs in Asia are spoiled & pampered like the pet dogs here in the US.

Unless you're talking about the puppy mill dogs? What's more horrifying is that puppy mill dogs in Asia are sold to the dog meat trade once they can't produce puppies anymore. Another reason NOT TO BUY from Korea. Korea is the #1 CAPITAL of puppy mills bc they have NO LAWS.

The dog eating tradition came from China, a very old tradition & it's not a rumor. It is very real...most are trying to eradicate it, it needs to stop.

I had a coworker tell me that where he come from if people dont want the dog anymore they end up just killing it and eating it, and isnt there some kind of holiday where they beat up dogs to later eat them? I recall hearing of that. I think it was mentioned in this thread too by someone. So yeah a horrible place to be a dog. The likelihood you will be stuffed in a small cage seems rather high- higher than here anyways, and its kinda high here too... COnsidering our puppymills

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by FlyingNimbus

I had a coworker tell me that where he come from if people dont want the dog anymore they end up just killing it and eating it, and isnt there some kind of holiday where they beat up dogs to later eat them? I recall hearing of that. I think it was mentioned in this thread too by someone. So yeah a horrible place to be a dog. The likelihood you will be stuffed in a small cage seems rather high- higher than here anyways, and its kinda high here too... COnsidering our puppymills

You're thinking of the Yulin Dog Festival. There are many articles about it if you google it...

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by FlyingNimbus

I had a coworker tell me that where he come from if people dont want the dog anymore they end up just killing it and eating it, and isnt there some kind of holiday where they beat up dogs to later eat them? I recall hearing of that. I think it was mentioned in this thread too by someone. So yeah a horrible place to be a dog. The likelihood you will be stuffed in a small cage seems rather high- higher than here anyways, and its kinda high here too... COnsidering our puppymills

Yeah that is horrible...not sure if that's a rumor but nonetheless, horrific. I'm sure, the abuse is a worldwide problem.

Yes, it's called Yulin/ Lychee Meat festival in China. Not sure what they call it in Korea but it has something to do w/the summer solstice. It is a very old tradition (which needs to die), not even sure why they do it...

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

Yeah that is horrible...not sure if that's a rumor but nonetheless, horrific. I'm sure, the abuse is a worldwide problem.

Yes, it's called Yulin/ Lychee Meat festival in China. Not sure what they call it in Korea but it has something to do w/the summer solstice. It is a very old tradition (which needs to die), not even sure why they do it...

I am sure centuries or eons ago there were festivals where they abused people somewhere instead.... (Not saying china did, just saying that human history is rather barbaric and down right disgusting). There are monsters among us.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by pstinard

You're thinking of the Yulin Dog Festival. There are many articles about it if you google it...

I didnt bother to remember the name... DONT need more nightmares.