Question about Biewers

[matese]

Originally Posted by scrapindee

The name of the dog depends on where the breeder registers her dogs. Sharon's dog is registered with BBIR. Therefore it is a BIEWER. It is not a Biewer Terrier. Your information that you are sharing is incorrect.

Thanks to you I found this out. Did not know there was a difference, now I do and I have you to thank for that.

[scrapindee]

Always glad to help.

Sharon that is a good start to potty training.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by matese

Thanks to you I found this out. Did not know there was a difference, now I do and I have you to thank for that.

We had a huge free-for-all on Yorkietalk a couple of years ago on the differences between Biewers, Biewer Terriers, and Parti-colored Yorkies here: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...vs-biewer.html. I believe that they are all related in some way or another in the distant past and that they are definitely not purebred Yorkshire Terriers. I've learned to let people call them what they want to call them .

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

We had a huge free-for-all on Yorkietalk a couple of years ago on the differences between Biewers, Biewer Terriers, and Parti-colored Yorkies here: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...vs-biewer.html. I believe that they are all related in some way or another in the distant past and that they are definitely not purebred Yorkshire Terriers. I've learned to let people call them what they want to call them .

LOL

Nice to see you Phil!

[DBlain]

This Biewer vs Biewer Terrier debate has me scratching my chin, first off I love the look of these little black and white pups with the long fluffy tails, someday I might own one and it will not matter to me if it is considered a terrier or not. But I can't help but wonder since they were supposed to have originated from Yorkshire terrier how they can not be terriers. If you read about the origins of the breed passed down from the man with the same last name, they came from off colored Yorkshire Terriers, not able to be shown.............. then there is more than just speculation that another breed was somehow involved, if not I think it would be hard to consistently get black, white and tan dogs because the piebold gene which is recessive in yorkies would not keep presenting itself, and if it did there must have been an awful lot of inbreeding originating from that first pair that Mr. Biewer had. But don't believe me, here is an excerpt from what one of the breed club has to say. But if someone can explain how you can have some Biewers that are terriers and some that are not I would sure love to see it explained.

The Biewer, pronounced (Beeva) originated in Hunsruck, Germany in 1984. After raising and showing Yorkshire Terriers for 20 years, Werner & Gertrude Biewer created the first Biewer through the occurrence of a recessive piebald gene in their Yorkshire Terriers. "Darling von Friedheck" and Fru Fru von Friedheck" were the original pair used to begin the Biewer foundation stock.

Both dogs were blue and tan and world youth winners in 1981 at Dortmund. Their mating produced the first blue, white, and gold Biewer, "Schneeflocken von Freidheck", born in January of 1984. Through selective breeding, the couple continued to reproduce the signature head piece with all three colors, blue/black, white, and gold in good symmetry. The belly, chest, legs, and tip of the tail were characteristically white and silky, not curly. The tail meant to be full. The back colored blue/black with white in it. The Yorkshire Terriers that produced the Biewer originated from the Streamglen Kennel.

There is some speculation, although not substantiated, that an accidental crossbreeding may have occurred in this kennel that did not show up until many generations later through Mr. Biewer’s dogs. Mr. and Mrs. Biewer had 4 Yorkies from Steamglen, two of which produced the tri-colored dog.

Mr. Biewer first introduced his tri-colored dogs to the show ring in March of 1988 at Wiesbaden, Germany. He presented two dogs and called them Black and White Yorkshire Terriers. The VDH denied the acceptance of the dogs being a breed of their own. Instead, they were designated as being “the wrong color, not for breeding”. Mr. Biewer was unhappy with this decision and began his search for a registry that would accept his beloved dogs as a separate breed. The ACH (Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde Deutschland e.V.) was the first club to accept them as a distinct and separate breed. The dogs were then registered as Biewer Yorkshire a’ la Pom Pon.

The name “a’ la Pom Pon” came from a unique story. While dining one evening, the husband of singer Margot Eskens presented his wife with a Biewer Yorkshire puppy on a platter as a gift. The phrase “a’ la Pom Pon” is French and translates “a tassel or colorful ball of yarn”, which described the puppy’s hair perfectly Biewer Breed History - Biewer Breed Club Of America

[matese]

Originally Posted by DBlain

This Biewer vs Biewer Terrier debate has me scratching my chin, first off I love the look of these little black and white pups with the long fluffy tails, someday I might own one and it will not matter to me if it is considered a terrier or not. But I can't help but wonder since they were supposed to have originated from Yorkshire terrier how they can not be terriers. If you read about the origins of the breed passed down from the man with the same last name, they came from off colored Yorkshire Terriers, not able to be shown.............. then there is more than just speculation that another breed was somehow involved, if not I think it would be hard to consistently get black, white and tan dogs because the piebold gene which is recessive in yorkies would not keep presenting itself, and if it did there must have been an awful lot of inbreeding originating from that first pair that Mr. Biewer had. But don't believe me, here is an excerpt from what one of the breed club has to say. But if someone can explain how you can have some Biewers that are terriers and some that are not I would sure love to see it explained.

Originally Posted by DBlain

The Biewer, pronounced (Beeva) originated in Hunsruck, Germany in 1984. After raising and showing Yorkshire Terriers for 20 years, Werner & Gertrude Biewer created the first Biewer through the occurrence of a recessive piebald gene in their Yorkshire Terriers. "Darling von Friedheck" and Fru Fru von Friedheck" were the original pair used to begin the Biewer foundation stock.

Both dogs were blue and tan and world youth winners in 1981 at Dortmund. Their mating produced the first blue, white, and gold Biewer, "Schneeflocken von Freidheck", born in January of 1984. Through selective breeding, the couple continued to reproduce the signature head piece with all three colors, blue/black, white, and gold in good symmetry. The belly, chest, legs, and tip of the tail were characteristically white and silky, not curly. The tail meant to be full. The back colored blue/black with white in it. The Yorkshire Terriers that produced the Biewer originated from the Streamglen Kennel.

There is some speculation, although not substantiated, that an accidental crossbreeding may have occurred in this kennel that did not show up until many generations later through Mr. Biewer’s dogs. Mr. and Mrs. Biewer had 4 Yorkies from Steamglen, two of which produced the tri-colored dog.

Mr. Biewer first introduced his tri-colored dogs to the show ring in March of 1988 at Wiesbaden, Germany. He presented two dogs and called them Black and White Yorkshire Terriers. The VDH denied the acceptance of the dogs being a breed of their own. Instead, they were designated as being “the wrong color, not for breeding”. Mr. Biewer was unhappy with this decision and began his search for a registry that would accept his beloved dogs as a separate breed. The ACH (Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde Deutschland e.V.) was the first club to accept them as a distinct and separate breed. The dogs were then registered as Biewer Yorkshire a’ la Pom Pon.

The name “a’ la Pom Pon” came from a unique story. While dining one evening, the husband of singer Margot Eskens presented his wife with a Biewer Yorkshire puppy on a platter as a gift. The phrase “a’ la Pom Pon” is French and translates “a tassel or colorful ball of yarn”, which described the puppy’s hair perfectly Biewer Breed History - Biewer Breed Club Of America

lol thank goodness i am not the only one still confused regarding Biewers not being terriers when they originated from yorkies lol.

[ladyjane]

Oh goodness.....here we go again I bet. I certainly hope not...this can be such a controversial subject here on YT. If you click on the link Pstinard posted you can see one of them....if it starts up again,
I will be here .............>

And, in the end, I think you will still be confused. LOL

[matese]

Originally Posted by pstinard

We had a huge free-for-all on Yorkietalk a couple of years ago on the differences between Biewers, Biewer Terriers, and Parti-colored Yorkies here: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...vs-biewer.html. I believe that they are all related in some way or another in the distant past and that they are definitely not purebred Yorkshire Terriers. I've learned to let people call them what they want to call them .

Hi Phil nice to see you, the Biewer and Biewer "terrier" has tweaked my curiosity, it is a beautiful dog as is the Parti yorkie. Thanks for this link I will read it later today. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours in case we do not see you before then.

[matese]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Oh goodness.....here we go again I bet. I certainly hope not...this can be such a controversial subject here on YT. If you click on the link Pstinard posted you can see one of them....if it starts up again,
I will be here .............>

And, in the end, I think you will still be confused. LOL

lol, I probably will be, Biewer, Biewer "terrier",Parti yorkie are all just BEAUTIFUL dogs. I will read the link Phil has provided.

[SharonSnowbird]

Originally Posted by DBlain

But if someone can explain how you can have some Biewers that are terriers and some that are not I would sure love to see it explained.

THAT is the most perplexing question of all!
I would love to have that explained myself.

[DBlain]

Originally Posted by matese

Hi Phil nice to see you, the Biewer and Biewer "terrier" has tweaked my curiosity, it is a beautiful dog as is the Parti yorkie. Thanks for this link I will read it later today. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours in case we do not see you before then.

Make sure you set aside a lot of time Even the breeders of Biewers do not agree on things like should you breed Biewer to Biewer, what type of other breed if any was added and if so when and what and by who. I believe that must be why there are two groups.

I also have a hard time believing what they said on the other thread about telling by personality traits, I know a bunch through my meet up groups and just like yorkies they vary dog to dog, owner to owner. Personally I have had over the top feisty yorkies and some that were almost like a stuffed animal that peed and pooped. I have seen lots and lots of timid yorkies, as well as feisty take on the world type. I honestly don't think that the personality between say Biewer, a Biewer Terrier, or a Parti Yorkie is all that different, it depends on the individual dog.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by DBlain

This Biewer vs Biewer Terrier debate has me scratching my chin, first off I love the look of these little black and white pups with the long fluffy tails, someday I might own one and it will not matter to me if it is considered a terrier or not. But I can't help but wonder since they were supposed to have originated from Yorkshire terrier how they can not be terriers. If you read about the origins of the breed passed down from the man with the same last name, they came from off colored Yorkshire Terriers, not able to be shown.............. then there is more than just speculation that another breed was somehow involved, if not I think it would be hard to consistently get black, white and tan dogs because the piebold gene which is recessive in yorkies would not keep presenting itself, and if it did there must have been an awful lot of inbreeding originating from that first pair that Mr. Biewer had. But don't believe me, here is an excerpt from what one of the breed club has to say. But if someone can explain how you can have some Biewers that are terriers and some that are not I would sure love to see it explained.

The Biewer, pronounced (Beeva) originated in Hunsruck, Germany in 1984. After raising and showing Yorkshire Terriers for 20 years, Werner & Gertrude Biewer created the first Biewer through the occurrence of a recessive piebald gene in their Yorkshire Terriers. "Darling von Friedheck" and Fru Fru von Friedheck" were the original pair used to begin the Biewer foundation stock.

Both dogs were blue and tan and world youth winners in 1981 at Dortmund. Their mating produced the first blue, white, and gold Biewer, "Schneeflocken von Freidheck", born in January of 1984. Through selective breeding, the couple continued to reproduce the signature head piece with all three colors, blue/black, white, and gold in good symmetry. The belly, chest, legs, and tip of the tail were characteristically white and silky, not curly. The tail meant to be full. The back colored blue/black with white in it. The Yorkshire Terriers that produced the Biewer originated from the Streamglen Kennel.

There is some speculation, although not substantiated, that an accidental crossbreeding may have occurred in this kennel that did not show up until many generations later through Mr. Biewer’s dogs. Mr. and Mrs. Biewer had 4 Yorkies from Steamglen, two of which produced the tri-colored dog.

Mr. Biewer first introduced his tri-colored dogs to the show ring in March of 1988 at Wiesbaden, Germany. He presented two dogs and called them Black and White Yorkshire Terriers. The VDH denied the acceptance of the dogs being a breed of their own. Instead, they were designated as being “the wrong color, not for breeding”. Mr. Biewer was unhappy with this decision and began his search for a registry that would accept his beloved dogs as a separate breed. The ACH (Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde Deutschland e.V.) was the first club to accept them as a distinct and separate breed. The dogs were then registered as Biewer Yorkshire a’ la Pom Pon.

The name “a’ la Pom Pon” came from a unique story. While dining one evening, the husband of singer Margot Eskens presented his wife with a Biewer Yorkshire puppy on a platter as a gift. The phrase “a’ la Pom Pon” is French and translates “a tassel or colorful ball of yarn”, which described the puppy’s hair perfectly Biewer Breed History - Biewer Breed Club Of America

There is a lot of Yorkshire Terrier in them to be sure, so I would definitely call them terriers. Wisdom Panel took a look at the DNA of a subset of Biewers (now called the Biewer Terriers) and found a lot of Yorkie DNA in them, with DNA from a few other breeds mixed in as well. The Biewer Terriers that were tested were different enough from Yorkshire Terriers, and showed enough similarities among them, that the American Kennel Club admitted the Biewer Terrier into its Foundation Stock program as a distinct breed. Biewer Terriers must be maintained by breeding them with other Biewer Terriers.

Some (but not all) people breed Biewers and Parti-colored Yorkies by crossing them to regular Yorkshire Terriers and then re-extracting the piebald trait out in later generations. Those are different from Biewer Terriers, and are more likely to have similarities to Yorkshire Terriers, since they have been bred to them. But they are all terriers.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by matese

Hi Phil nice to see you, the Biewer and Biewer "terrier" has tweaked my curiosity, it is a beautiful dog as is the Parti yorkie. Thanks for this link I will read it later today. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours in case we do not see you before then.

Happy Thanksgiving! Sorry I haven't been around YorkieTalk more. I've been busy with work. I'll try to look in more often.

[scrapindee]

Hi Phil, good to see you. Been awhile.

Bottom line for me is the dog purebred or a mixed breed (mutt?)? 90+% don't think they are a mixed breed. They have to be mixed breed to be considered by AKC. Most Biewer breeders don't care about AKC.

The different registries provide pedigrees denoting which breed you are representing.

[Parti Peanut]

Originally Posted by scrapindee

Hi Phil, good to see you. Been awhile.

Bottom line for me is the dog purebred or a mixed breed (mutt?)? 90+% don't think they are a mixed breed. They have to be mixed breed to be considered by AKC. Most Biewer breeders don't care about AKC.

The different registries provide pedigrees denoting which breed you are representing.

All dog breeds originally were mixed breed dogs. It is just generations of breeding in the characteristics that were desired that developed a particular breed. If you will look at any particular breed ( I'll use Cocker Spaniels as an example as years ago I used to raise and show them) they continue to evolve and change even now. Champion Cockers from years ago wouldn't stand a chance in the show ring today. Just saying.