Yorkshire/biewer mix... Wht do you think

[YorkieRini]

Hey Rini, she did post pics..check'em out..

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...8&page=2&pp=15

[Snow Yorkies]

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

Being involved in Biewers for 3 years by researching, talking to many breeders, and becoming a member of the IBC a year over a year ago I feel I confident this was the intent of Mr Biewer. The history of the Biewer and the standard, they are both spelled in black and white; very simple. The Biewer originated to the original Friedheck parents. Mr Biewer developed a standard and everyone knows when you breed you breed to the standard. Yorkies and Biewers each have a standard mixing the 2 standards are creating a mix of breeds or a mixed breed. Doesn't matter what the history fact is fact standard is standard. I have my Biewers and love their colors and how different they are from Yorkies and the Tri colored Yorkie. The would be ruined if I bred them to a Yorkie. All the hard work that was put into breeding the 4 generations of pure Biewer would be thrown out the window. This breed is still new so there are alot of changes. Having talked to reputable breeders in Germany told that breeding back to a Yorkie is done only on rare occasions the true Biewers lines have been established for the most part the need to breed to a Yorkie should not be required. The one thing I don't know is how to tell what lines have been established. I'm waiting to see if that comes out because IMO the Biewers don't have a chance to be a breed of their own if we keep breeding them to another standard. IMO, if you breed to Yorkie to a Biewer those should not be referred to as True Biewers.

As many of you have seen Sue and I discuss our passion about this lovely breed. We both have different views I guess. I want to make it clear that my intention is to share my view on the Biewer breed based on what I've been taught and read. If I see a document or it written that Yorkie is OK and will be OK and considered a Biewer...I will NOT incorporate the Yorkie with my Biewer but I WILL say NO MORE...until then I am going to always share my views on the subject just as Sue has been. Time will tell who's correct if either of us are.

This is not to cause a debate please. Sue and I have talked privately and understand eachothers views and respect them.

I will agree to the fact that we do sit in different corners here. I might have to sit in my corner alone.

You claim you want documented proof then how about producing some yourself... You make all your views perfectly clear but with what??? Show me & others here on this forum some proof to bring us into your corner. Three years of research you should have some links or references or something in black & white for all of us to view that we can all learn from. I have done my research as I am sure many others have. I can only stress that the Club you refer to as being a member of IBC still refers to the Biewers as "Yorkshire Terriers" why would this be???

I think the history of where this breed begins is extremely important and should never be disregarded.

I am not trying to start a debate I just would like you to share your wealth of knowledge with the rest of us and bring us all up to speed.

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

I will agree to the fact that we do sit in different corners here. I might have to sit in my corner alone.

You claim you want documented proof then how about producing some yourself... You make all your views perfectly clear but with what??? Show me & others here on this forum some proof to bring us into your corner. Three years of research you should have some links or references or something in black & white for all of us to view that we can all learn from. I have done my research as I am sure many others have. I can only stress that the Club you refer to as being a member of IBC still refers to the Biewers as "Yorkshire Terriers" why would this be???

I think the history of where this breed begins is extremely important and should never be disregarded.

I am not trying to start a debate I just would like you to share your wealth of knowledge with the rest of us and bring us all up to speed.

Touche'

I would be happy to provide the history and the standard but it's the same one that I believe you and I agree on..and others as well. I think it's all in how we interpret the history or standard.

Plain and simple..IMO we should only breed to the standard..NOTHING else! Here is the standard..truely says markings are specific..no mention of accepting b/g yorkies for breeding purposes.

http://www.ach-l.de/Biewer-Z%FCchter.htm

[mhorst]

Just had to express my opinion here. I think pure Yorkies and pure Biewers are all beautiful. I would like to have a Biewer myself, but have a new Yorkie pup already, and don't want to pay the price for a Biewer.

Personally, if I was looking for another furbaby and a Yorkie/Biewer mix came available at a good price and I did not intend to breed but have as a pet only, I'd JUMP at the chance.

Go for it!!! You may have a really unique pet, and if it does default to look like a Yorkie, depending on the quality of the Yorkie parent, you may have a high quality baby at a reasonable price.

Wish you the very best!!!!!!

[Julz]

If it intrigues you as a pet, I'd say get one! It won't have papers, but that won't matter anyway as a pet. A pet isn't a "bad" word. They are adorable. They will neither have the "Yorkie" look or the "Biewer" look. The Biewer has a white base. The Yorkie doesn't have all that white for markings. However, the little white the purebred standard yorkies do have usually grows out. It will be interesting to see how these pups change and what they will look like as adults. However.....that is always a wonder for us with standard Yorkies .

[Momofthree]

Originally Posted by mhorst

Just had to express my opinion here. I think pure Yorkies and pure Biewers are all beautiful. I would like to have a Biewer myself, but have a new Yorkie pup already, and don't want to pay the price for a Biewer.

Personally, if I was looking for another furbaby and a Yorkie/Biewer mix came available at a good price and I did not intend to breed but have as a pet only, I'd JUMP at the chance.

Go for it!!! You may have a really unique pet, and if it does default to look like a Yorkie, depending on the quality of the Yorkie parent, you may have a high quality baby at a reasonable price.

Wish you the very best!!!!!!

Thanks.......

I am very excited about my future family member... I did do some research on the biewer line and had serveral conversations with owners/breeders of Biewers. I understand about the standards for the Yorkie breed and the Biewer breed. I think both breeds are wonderful.... I am just jumping at what i think is a wonderful opportunity.

Based on every thing i have read... there seems to be some relationship between the two...

Showing and breeding are no where in my future plans for my new little one...In fact spaying will occur.

But, it is interesting to read everyone's point of view.

[Momofthree]

Originally Posted by Julz

If it intrigues you as a pet, I'd say get one! It won't have papers, but that won't matter anyway as a pet. A pet isn't a "bad" word. They are adorable. They will neither have the "Yorkie" look or the "Biewer" look. The Biewer has a white base. The Yorkie doesn't have all that white for markings. However, the little white the purebred standard yorkies do have usually grows out. It will be interesting to see how these pups change and what they will look like as adults. However.....that is always a wonder for us with standard Yorkies .

I will share my pictures as my breeder shares with me... I am too....very curious to see how their coloring will be...

[chattiesmom]

Careful breeding can cause a specific line within a breed to produce certain traits. I don't understand dog breeding, but genetics is genetics. When I breed two quarter horses, I get a quarter horse. Occasionally a recessive gene will produce a trait that is not acceptable to the American Quarter Horse Association, which prevents me from registering that indivudal as a QH, but there are other organizations that would welcome and cherish the results. But, irregardless of what registery his "papers are in" the horse in view of genetics this is still a Quarter Horse.

So, I guess my question, very respectlully and humbly is: What genetic pool did Mr. Biewer use when developing this GEORGEOUS little black and white dog? If the entire gene pool consisted of Yorkies with non AKC standard colors and markings, then the end result would have to be a Yorkie whatever the coloration.

Please, I am not trying to start, or continue a debate, hurt feelings, or start a flame war, and I certainly don't want to get toasted. The Biewers are beautiful little dogs, to die for beautiful and I would just love to understand once and for all, using the genetic makeup sole determinating factor, are Biewers Yorkies with a lovely color pattern or are they a separate breed with a truly different, non Yorkie or Yorkie + something else genetic makeup?

ps. guys, I have spent about 45 minutes trying to word this post so it isn't harsh, argumentative, ugly, hurtful, mean, rude, or truly ignorant. If I failed in my mission, I am truly sorry.

[chattiesmom]

Momofthree: I was so intense reading every post in this thread, and so confused -- and then I spent 45 minutes trying to word my question or commentary (lol) that I entire forgot to say:

CONGRATULATIONS

on your new addition. Can't wait to see pics!

[Julz]

I think you did fine. I just PM'd the original poster of this thread because I didn't want to get toasted either. Here is my understanding and by no way am I an expert. I can only theorize what I have read. If this is incorrect please state it nicely. The Biewer is a color anomally from a Yorkshire Terrier. Mr. Biewer took the color anomally and worked very hard genetically to produce a certain standard that HE was working toward (as far as where certain marking should be). That would take a long time and a lot of weeding out to put it in simple terms. Those standards that he wanted to and DID achieve are not the Yorkie standard. However, he got it consitent enough that he wanted to call it a different "breed"...not a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier. Just a Biewer. However, the background of the Biewer from what I know did not have a new "ingredient" breed added to it. I could be wrong. Please let me know if I am. It is beautiful and will lose the markings and standards that he achieved if bred to a Yorkie. However, ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION, if you read between the lines, it is not a mixed breed. It may resemble one because it may not follow either standard, but it is .... well....you know....

[Snow Yorkies]

I am providing a couple of links that might help here. First link is the standard for the breed (mostly translated)


This is the Biewer Standard

This is a link so you will be able to veiw Mr. Biewers dogs http://www.ach-l.de/Fotos%20Biewer%2...%20Terrier.htm

[Sherry Lynn]

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

I am providing a couple of links that might help here. First link is the standard for the breed (mostly translated)

hehehe Key word is 'mostly'.

This line made me giggle! Wonder what they know?

"Legs and belly as well as chest hair knows"

[sylvan]

Originally Posted by whispersmom2

As I watched the Westminster Dog Show and saw Cockers (for one breed) who were described as the same breed but shown in different color classes, I thought of these discussions about Biewers being Yorkshire terriers.. I still say they are the same breed but just in different colors. The Biewer family would have called them something comletely different than "Yorkshire terrier" a la pompon if they were convinced they had made a whole new breed. Since they used Yorkies and ONLY Yorkies to develop these Biewers, they can only be a Yorkshire terrier...

I am quoting Rini here, and I am also sitting in the corner with Sue. The german registration for these dogs clearly identifies them as Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon.
The Biewer standard as written by Mr. Biewer calls for
"Entsprechen dem Yorkshire Standard auBer Haarlange und Haarfarbe". The only differentiation he specified was to coat, color and markings. In his words he wrote of them as Yorkshire Terriers...I don't think it can be clearer than that.

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

I am providing a couple of links that might help here. First link is the standard for the breed (mostly translated)


This is the Biewer Standard

This is a link so you will be able to veiw Mr. Biewers dogs http://www.ach-l.de/Fotos%20Biewer%2...%20Terrier.htm

Thank you for the links. I looked at both, admired the pretty pics, I don't read German so was at a loss. The Honorable Mr. Biewer's Yorkies are beautiful..... They look like American Yorkies with a lot of white. Thank you!

[chattiesmom]

And.... a double thank you for not getting upset with me. I am stubborn, hard headed and see in black and white (pardon the pun). Either they are or they aren't. I think Mr. Biewer answered my question himself by calling his beauties Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon (I don't know what the a la Pom Pon means maybe with white? )