I'm getting a dna test done. Then what??

[TrishaCarson]

How old is your Yorkie now? Does she still have short hair. Attach a picture if you can - by the way, she is adorable!!!

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

It's more than just the coat type. The white along the bottom of the muzzle, throat and the line across the bottom of the chest, the overall head, ears. The little dog just doesn't remind me of a shorn Yorkie. Looks like a MinPin/Chi/Yorkie mix or something like that.

I agree completely. There is no short hair gene in the Yorkshire Terrier. Yes you could have a registered yorkie even that looks like this but remember that the registration info sent to the registry is only as good as the integrity of the breeder.
DNA only can prove who is the dam and sire. It cannot prove what happened prior to that. MARS test is not valid there is no genetic testing in reality to determine breeds in any dog. Wishful thinking on the part of MARS and waste of money IMHO for those submitting money to pay for these tests.

[Lorraine]

I meant to mention however, the Red Leg Yorkie. Their coat does not grow properly and as they mature they have long wisps with short hair also. If I recall correctly it is recessive and not something a reputable breeder would ever breed for.
Don't forget the purpose of purebred registered dogs. There are breed standards. Those puppies produced from a mating that is not in keeping with the breed standard are wonderful pets but that mating should never be repeated and 'rare' should never be the purpose of the breeder. The goal as stated in the purpose of a reputable breeder, to produce as close to the breed standard as possible is the case no matter which purebred breed you are referring to.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

I meant to mention however, the Red Leg Yorkie. Their coat does not grow properly and as they mature they have long wisps with short hair also. If I recall correctly it is recessive and not something a reputable breeder would ever breed for.
Don't forget the purpose of purebred registered dogs. There are breed standards. Those puppies produced from a mating that is not in keeping with the breed standard are wonderful pets but that mating should never be repeated and 'rare' should never be the purpose of the breeder. The goal as stated in the purpose of a reputable breeder, to produce as close to the breed standard as possible is the case no matter which purebred breed you are referring to.

Yes indeed, I was going to mention the red legged Yorkie trait--I'm not sure whether the inheritance has been completely worked out for that trait. Supposedly, some breeders do use red legs in their breeding programs to tweak the coat color darkness of their dogs to obtain the desired "steel blue" color. I wish some canine geneticists would become interested in some of the unique phenomena of Yorkshire Terriers!

About the MARS test, it's not perfect for breed identification, but it's gaining acceptance in the scientific community, and there are a number of research articles comparing the results of Wisdom Panel testing to visual breed identification. Of course, the BEST way to ensure breed integrity is keeping good pedigree records and preventing accidental matings.

[Lorraine]

There were various theories about keeping colour and I think you are right it was considered perhaps a way to improve colour to use red legged in your breeding program. However that did not work out very well. Another thought was using soft coated dogs in breeding programs as they seemed to tend to keep darker colours. NOw I doubt you would see a soft coated Yorkie compete. What happened was the soft coated produced mostly soft coat and they did go light in colour. I have one and she is now almost 13 years old, went light at about 2 years of age.
Now those that are striving for correct coat and colour are particular about their breeding stock especially their males that they are using stock in their programs that have correct coat and colour.
As for MARS. Think about it. Genetic research of any kind is extremely expensive. There is not the dollars required that would have to be behind this sort of thing. There is enough problems raising funds to explore genetic health issues in both canine and human genetics ergo funds for something like is my dog part this breed or that breed? I don't think so! I had the opportunity to have quite a good chat with my Vet who is also very interested in genetic issues as am I with some genetic education behind me in pursuing my Bachelor Degree in Agriculture Sciences from an accredited University although that has been some years ago. I still know what is involved in researching genetic issues.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

There were various theories about keeping colour and I think you are right it was considered perhaps a way to improve colour to use red legged in your breeding program. However that did not work out very well. Another thought was using soft coated dogs in breeding programs as they seemed to tend to keep darker colours. NOw I doubt you would see a soft coated Yorkie compete. What happened was the soft coated produced mostly soft coat and they did go light in colour. I have one and she is now almost 13 years old, went light at about 2 years of age.
Now those that are striving for correct coat and colour are particular about their breeding stock especially their males that they are using stock in their programs that have correct coat and colour.
As for MARS. Think about it. Genetic research of any kind is extremely expensive. There is not the dollars required that would have to be behind this sort of thing. There is enough problems raising funds to explore genetic health issues in both canine and human genetics ergo funds for something like is my dog part this breed or that breed? I don't think so! I had the opportunity to have quite a good chat with my Vet who is also very interested in genetic issues as am I with some genetic education behind me in pursuing my Bachelor Degree in Agriculture Sciences from an accredited University although that has been some years ago. I still know what is involved in researching genetic issues.

It looks like we both have an agricultural background, with some training in genetics, LOL! The search for genetic markers in breed identification goes hand in hand with searching for genetic markers for genetic diseases. I don't think it's an either/or situation. If you check out the Wisdom Panel website, they are beginning to market their tests to vets to help vets determine whether the vet should order additional testing for genetic diseases (and they give the websites for the companies that test for genetic diseases, since MARS doesn't do that kind of testing themselves).

[pstinard]

Here is the link to genetic diseases and testing labs for the those diseases posted on the Royal Canin website. (Wisdom Panel and Royal Canin have a collaborative effort with regard to pre-screening dogs for disease predispositions.)

Information on Diseases & Conditions | Genetic Health Analysis

[Marhcarter]

I know I am a pot-stirrer by bringing up this thread again, but I LOVE the academic discussions that ensue, and I always end up learning something.

[Nancy1999]

The Wisdom Panel isn’t considered a great test because it’s one of those tests that gather data from a select group and then compares those results against each other. For example, it takes a sample from a certain breed over and over until there is some sort of pattern. This is the way most psychological testing began, you’d take a group of people who doctors believe to have some sort of mental illness, for example schizophrenia, and do a personality profile on them and try to learn how they were like each other and different from the general population. When you had a certain amount of data, it was believed you could then predict who was schizophrenic and who was bipolar by the way they answered the questions. The Wisdom Panel attempts to do the same thing but instead of mental illness, it wants to classify the dogs into breeds. The psychological tests are much more reliable today than they were 50 years ago because there is much more data and tests have been made to check against certain errors. There’s a name for this type of test, (maybe someone else is familiar with testing, can remember it, but I can’t), but it measures itself based upon its own data, and it’s considered the weakest of all tests. It’s not like the Wisdom panel is worthless, but it doesn’t do what some people think it does; it will not reliably and with 99.9 percent accuracy predict the breed. As time goes on, and more and more DNA samples are added to the data and IF these samples are indeed accurate, meaning that they really are from purebred dogs and from reliable honest breeders, then the overall accuracy of the test goes up, but in my opinion, it will take another 25 years. The Wisdom Panel now can say, that a dog is MOSTLY xyz.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

The Wisdom Panel isn’t considered a great test because it’s one of those tests that gather data from a select group and then compares those results against each other. For example, it takes a sample from a certain breed over and over until there is some sort of pattern. This is the way most psychological testing began, you’d take a group of people who doctors believe to have some sort of mental illness, for example schizophrenia, and do a personality profile on them and try to learn how they were like each other and different from the general population. When you had a certain amount of data, it was believed you could then predict who was schizophrenic and who was bipolar by the way they answered the questions. The Wisdom Panel attempts to do the same thing but instead of mental illness, it wants to classify the dogs into breeds. The psychological tests are much more reliable today than they were 50 years ago because there is much more data and tests have been made to check against certain errors. There’s a name for this type of test, (maybe someone else is familiar with testing, can remember it, but I can’t), but it measures itself based upon its own data, and it’s considered


the weakest of all tests. It’s not like the Wisdom panel is worthless, but it doesn’t do what some people think it does; it will not reliably and with 99.9 percent accuracy predict the breed. As time goes on, and more and more DNA samples are added to the data and IF these samples are indeed accurate, meaning that they really are from purebred dogs and from reliable honest breeders, then the overall accuracy of the test goes up, but in my opinion, it will take another 25 years. The Wisdom Panel now can say, that a dog is MOSTLY xyz.

Well I agree for the most part. But let us look at if the AKC and the CKC shared their database on the DNA database they hold, it might go a heck of a long way towards making the Mars Database and the resultant accuracy much more reliable. Given there is enough information on their database for the Mars testing.

I think that DNA testing is an incredible usefull tool to use in future research on purebreds.

I also think that breeders will need at some point to understand that what we have been breeding as purebreds will most likely have some very small % of other breeds within the DNA make up.

I think this line of research is well worth supporting, and yes I too agree as I have stated before Wisdom Panel and like tests can not be used at this point in time to ascertain a purebred status on any dog.

[mb562169]

Originally Posted by TrishaCarson

How old is your Yorkie now? Does she still have short hair. Attach a picture if you can - by the way, she is adorable!!!

I haven't been on here in a while and thought I would post a new picture of Mia. She turned 5 in April. In this picture she hadn't been to the groomer in 8 weeks.The last time she was there we did the puppy cute and she took off a whole 1/4 of an inch in length of her coat. She is my "red legged short haired" 100% yorkie and Maddie our newly adopted 2-3 yr old puppy mill momma we got from a local rescue. I love them both and it's so odd to see how different they look. I know yorkies come in all sizes and colors and I guess coat lengths.

[mb562169]

Thank you! And this is the girls after their grooming appointment. Mia in the front and Maddie is on the dog bed. Mia is the short haired yorkie.

[pstinard]

I just came across a series of symposium presentations about canine genetics and breed testing by DNA analysis. Some of the articles are written by MARS scientists, and others are written by noted mainstream canine geneticists. I does not *seem* to be behind a paywall, so hopefully anyone interested in learning more about DNA testing can read the articles:

http://www.hungarovet.com/wp-content...rence-book.pdf

[Yorkiemommy1984]

I just added a couple new pics of my Minnie. Yes she still does have short hair lol but to us it just makes her more unique and special.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemommy1984

I just added a couple new pics of my Minnie. Yes she still does have short hair lol but to us it just makes her more unique and special.

Yayyyyyyyyy!!! Good to see you back!!!!! Now I've got to go check out the new photos of Minnie

Oh, I forgot to ask, did she make a full recovery from her demodex?