Why 12 Weeks?

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemomma78

It cerainly is lecturing if its said over and over and over in every post after the OP along with snotty comments about how only wonderful and fantastic breeders keep their puppys until 12 weeks etc.I personally consider my breeder to be fantastic,she gave me great garantees (3 year genetic),I got to visit the pups when ever I wanted right from the start and she researched ME! So,looking down on the rest of the world just because things are done slightly differently is not ok,and all that lecturing is not what the OP is usually asking for,you arent helping
It´s not about people getting upset because they are seeing what they dont want to hear,it´s about getting a bunch of criticism when all you asked is a simple question about your puppy.




All serious breeders started somewhere.There was always that first litter and those first questions.This is a forum,people will ask questions...how can you (in general) nags someone for using this forum for its actual perpose? To EDUCATE
You cant lunge at someone who is asking questins and lash out with - "these are things you should know!!"...are you telling me that reputable yorkie breeders are born with all that knowledge?
Why cant there be new reputable breeders? Just because you dont want to give someone the info they are asking for because you think they should automatically know it all,it doesnt mean they wont do it anyway..so isnt it better to make sure they have all the info instead of denying them of the knowledge they´ll need?
Everyone,even the most wonderful and respectable breeders,started somewhere People come in here to do their research,that´s what they are actually doing when they ask you (in general) the questions you get angry at them for asking



I understand that,and it´s awful



Of course..I think we all are here because we love our yorkies to death and because we want to know all there is to know about the breed in order to give them the best care we can possibly give them - ALL of us.
I just dont believe in giving someone the cold shoulder or being hostile just because they are from a place that hasnt followed the YTCA word for word.I cant find it in me to hijack someones thread and ask over and over again WHY they have their puppy so soon or how it´s not their buisness to be thinking of breeding etc etc.
I awnser their questions and hope they´ll stick around to learn more If they stay,they might learn (all by themselfs) that certain things are not such a good idea,but if you p*ss them off and make them leave,they learn nothing

And your always lecturing about lecturing. Taylor has shared some very good information here as have many others. As a general rule of thumb 12 weeks is optimal, anything earlier is risky, period. Just because you beat the odds doesn't make it right it makes it a happy ending. Many pups don't survive when removed too soon, we've seen it hundreds of times here, sick pups, dying pups and dead pups. No one is saying it CAN'T be done...only that it shouldn't be. And with anything there are always exceptions to the rules.

Many of us here did NOT research before buying a pup, I thought I had and only after I got mine did I find out that I knew nothing compared to what I thought I knew, infact; I still learn everyday.

[BrittanyVThomas]

What about all the rescue Yorkies? They aren't up to the standard but you can't just push them to the side because of what humans have done to them. I'd take a rescue Yorkie over any puppy. And I did do that...that's how I got my amazing Sophie. Sophie may not be up to the YTCA standards or even up to most of the people here. If a Yorkie was 6 weeks old and was at a shelter would you take her? Because I would. I would give her a home regardless. Sophie probably was a result of a puppy mill and she probably was overbred. She has some skin allergies but that is her only limitation. I guess she's lucky. And I do have a Yorkie puppy...I got her because I love Yorkies and wanted to raise one. And now Sophie has a friend :-) I'm just wondering what everyone here thinks of all the Yorkies who have become victims to us humans. Not just the breeders, humans in general. Because not all dogs that end up in shelters had bad breeders, some of them had bad owners. There is a difference. I'm just wondering how many of you adopted your Yorkie? I'm sure there is more than I realize.

[SWHouston]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

they are asking questions they should already know answers to if they did the research they should have done before

That may just be the case...
I may just be counting on my extraordinary ability to "read between the lines" (), but many of those wannabe Breeders seem to know a reasonable amount up front. I think they've already been "lectured" elsewhere, and many come here (probably out of desperation for support) to possibly get some sort of approval.

I suppose we could be a bit more polite, but the answer is going to be the same. =

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by BrittanyVThomas

What about all the rescue Yorkies? They aren't up to the standard but you can't just push them to the side because of what humans have done to them. I'd take a rescue Yorkie over any puppy. And I did do that...that's how I got my amazing Sophie. Sophie may not be up to the YTCA standards or even up to most of the people here. If a Yorkie was 6 weeks old and was at a shelter would you take her? Because I would. I would give her a home regardless. Sophie probably was a result of a puppy mill and she probably was overbred. She has some skin allergies but that is her only limitation. I guess she's lucky. And I do have a Yorkie puppy...I got her because I love Yorkies and wanted to raise one. And now Sophie has a friend :-) I'm just wondering what everyone here thinks of all the Yorkies who have become victims to us humans. Not just the breeders, humans in general. Because not all dogs that end up in shelters had bad breeders, some of them had bad owners. There is a difference. I'm just wondering how many of you adopted your Yorkie? I'm sure there is more than I realize.

A puppy and dog from a shelter is a lot different then from a bad breeder. With a bad breeder you are keeping them in business and supporting them. If I get another yorkie it will be from a rescue more then likely. My mom has a rescue yorkie and we worked through most of his problems and he is such a great dog and so smart. When my parents got him is eyes where so dim but now after two years his eyes are so bright its just awesome.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I'll say that though you have had problems with little Callie, you have worked hard to help her deal with all of her issues as a result of her sad beginnings and since learning a better way for dogs, have been a wonderful, passionate advocate for their betterment since I have been on this site, Taylor.

What's viewed as "passionate" by some is viewed as holier-than-thou preaching by others....more than a little ironic when the preacher lives in a glass house.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Would you like to share what the point of your post? Trying bait or whatever its called. You DO NOT know what went into Callie and I have explained my story many times.

You seem to have such high expectations in regards to the behaviour/choices of other people when it comes to getting a puppy, that you obviously didn't exercise yourself.

I would think that after making your choice in ignorance, you would be more understanding/tolerant of others that do the same....not less so.
I'm curious as to how you reconcile that personally.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

What's viewed as "passionate" by some is viewed as holier-than-thou preaching by others....more than a little ironic when the preacher lives in a glass house.



You seem to have such high expectations in regards to the behaviour/choices of other people when it comes to getting a puppy, that you obviously didn't exercise yourself.

I would think that after making your choice in ignorance, you would be more understanding/tolerant of others that do the same....not less so.
I'm curious as to how you reconcile that personally.

I do not think I am holier than thou that is why I share my story a lot. I think if you come here before getting the puppy and when looking for a puppy are super great times to educate but when someone has already gotten the puppy as well as let them know what they need to do and watch out for as well as a little education about what age the pup should come home and other stuff for the future because you have to learn somewhere and most people don't stop at just one dog or yorkie. I am very understanding of those who made the same mistake as I did but less understand of those who came here and knew better but did it anyway although some cases maybe slightly different. I never intended to come off holier than thou and have seen many people say and take the same stance as me are they that way too? But those of us who know you know Callie's story could also think you are acting that way too.

[KazzyK810]

While I usually don't like writing inside posts, I thought it the best way to respond to this one.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I do not think I am holier than thou that is why I share my story a lot. I think if you come here before getting the puppy and when looking for a puppy are super great times to educate but when someone has already gotten the puppy as well as let them know what they need to do and watch out for as well as a little education about what age the pup should come home (Then I'd suggest knowing who you are responding to, because as discussed previously, what is the "done thing" in the USA is not necessarily the same thing world wide and to imply that a person in another country has done something wrong by taking their puppy home at an age that good breeders in their country place their pups.. is offensive.) and other stuff for the future because you have to learn somewhere and most people don't stop at just one dog or yorkie. I am very understanding of those who made the same mistake as I did but less understand of those who came here and knew better but did it anyway although some cases maybe slightly different. I never intended to come off holier than thou and have seen many people say and take the same stance as me are they that way too? (That would probably depend on the delivery/tone of the response.) But those of us who know you know Callie's story could also think you are acting that way too. (I don't "know" Callie's "story". I do recall a thread about her having surgery on her leg? though...if I'm remembering the right person/dog).

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

What's viewed as "passionate" by some is viewed as holier-than-thou preaching by others....more than a little ironic when the preacher lives in a glass house.

When you've been through something personally and dealt with or daily still deal with the painful consequences of one's former lack of knowledge on a subject, you then often do become a strong and passionate advocate for trying to pass along your hard-earned, painfully-learned lesson to others, whether your house is wood, brick, glass or you live in a car. What some see as holier-than-thou, others seen as passion born of experience and pain and a strong desire to keep others from making the same mistakes, as the dogs at issue are the ones paying the biggest price for irresponsible breeders dumping too-young and/or genetically-flawed dogs, often the case with puppymills, pet stores that sell dogs and may casual/BYB's. Oftentimes the best spokesperson for any cause is the one who has been there and done that and lives with the consequences. Some of the most eloquent spokespersons for causes are those with the scars and loss from the consequences of their unknowing, uninformed actions. People usually listen closest and longest to those that have actually been though a bad experience rather than those that are just warning against it.

[ladyjane]

Just gotta say......once again we have a lynch mob picking on ONE person because the ONE person chooses to say what she believes in. Some of you are way beyond posting your opinions and, in my personal opinion, are being very judgemental while pointing the finger at another.

As someone recently suggested............why not just Post and let Post!?!?!?!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

While I usually don't like writing inside posts, I thought it the best way to respond to this one.

I have tried to get better about looking at the country before responding but sometimes I forget we all make mistakes. The tone on a message board is normally in the eyes of the reader. I have posted many time times Callie's story especially when some one is sharing about there dog they got from a puppy mill when they didn't know about them. Callie came from a broker before I knew about brokers and what they where upon learning more and doing research Callie came from a puppy mill who let a broker sale there dogs. The only thing I knew about yorkies was it was pretty much the only dog I could have with my Grandmothers bad breathing problems and my own problems. I needed something to keep me going and give me a reason. She has had many health problems but I have gotten her through them but the pain she has been in because of them and watching her suffer from them breaks my heart and makes me hate bad breeders and puppy mills who do not care anything about the puppies they just see money and some of these puppies die or just have to suffer and not no why. Callie is my life and I would die for her if I needed to.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Some of the most eloquent spokespersons for causes are those with the scars and loss from the consequences of their unknowing, uninformed actions.

I agree with your philosophy of those that have been there, are often the best advocates.

What I don't get is how someone that has made the mistakes themselves being so harse in their critique of others.

Like today....I was a horrible dog owner.

I was making ZoE's breakfast, while on hold on the phone to an auto-parts store, and while also re-watching a (muted) video of an auto repair (my car died yesterday a half mile from my parents house and I managed to roll it there & left it for the night in their driveway). I got off the phone (knowing they were holding my part). Took a shower, then gave ZoE a bath. Got us both dry & ready. Got a ride to my parents house (ZoE went too), went to the auto store in my dad's truck, fixed my car in their driveway (installed a new serpentine belt all myself!! so proud!!!), visited with parents, picked up a hot-n-ready pizza for dinner on my drive home. Got in the house and ZoE went NUTZ with the smell of the pizza...so I thought...I'll make her dinner, so she can eat while I'm eating. Grab a clean dish from the cupboard and am getting ready to make her dinner...when there I see her BREAKFAST still sitting on the counter! I'd made that poor pup go all day without food (other than a treat from pottying). OMgosh..I felt terrible!!! (and I do all over again as I'm typing this...)

So, if someone is to tell me that they've done something similiar...I can comiserate...I understand...I know how even someone who loves their dog an incredible amount...can have a brain fart and have an oops moment...like I did. My mistake doesn't make me more critical of others.

[Belle Noir]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Educating is great. I think once in awhile the OP honestly understands what is being said but disagrees...and that is ok.

Oh, I ALWAYS understand what is being said. I am highly intelligent, well read, quite educated, and have over 2 decades of dog experience to call on. In my breed, "I" am a mentor. "I" am the one getting phone calls and emails from complete strangers asking for information, wanting to learn, looking for answers.
But you are right, there are many things I do not agree with. Not because I am being difficult, Not because I am trolling, pot stirring or have an agenda as I have been accused of, but because I don't adhere to dogma. I do not do the appeal to authority fallacy. If there is a reason for something, I want a factual basis, not one based on subjective and emotional responses.
Thank you for understanding that it is OK that I disagree with standard operating protocol. There are some that take personal offense in that, it seems.

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I think breed clubs are a great thing. I don't think they should be looked to first for health and behavior issues. They know about breed standard and showing. They don't hold credentials in health/behavior most of the time. I've been on YTCA member sites. I've read a bit from members about health and such. I see how members are chosen. At the end of the day I personally don't trust them over vets and vet behaviorists. I wouldn't say the 12 week thing is bad, but there are other paths that can also be acceptable.

I am of this opinion too. There are those that feel that because the breed clubs hold the standard, that makes them the custodians, or guardians of the breed. That everyone needs to fall in line with the breed clubs rules, whether they show or not.
I'm just not of the same mind set. That is why I asked why was 12 weeks recommended aside from behavior, which I disagree with, aside from hypoglycemia, and aside from the YTCA says so.
And to that end, EVEN IF someone is in America they should NOT be held by the edicts of a club they are NOT a member of. If I am NOT a member of the YTCA WHY on the WORLD should I give two figs what THEY say?

I think people need to remember that. YTCA rules are for YTCA MEMBERS. And if you're not a member, you're not bound by their rules. And you're not ever interested in becoming a member, (the VAST majority of Yorkie owners), then why should you be interested in following their rules before you DO become a member?

This is why having the information I learned on this thread is invaluable. I can't tell people not to get a puppy before 12 weeks of age because the YCTA says so. But I can point out potential health issues, fact based, to help interested puppy buyers make an informed choice.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Belle Noir

Oh, I ALWAYS understand what is being said. I am highly intelligent, well read, quite educated, and have over 2 decades of dog experience to call on. In my breed, "I" am a mentor. "I" am the one getting phone calls and emails from complete strangers asking for information, wanting to learn, looking for answers.
But you are right, there are many things I do not agree with. Not because I am being difficult, Not because I am trolling, pot stirring or have an agenda as I have been accused of, but because I don't adhere to dogma. I do not do the appeal to authority fallacy. If there is a reason for something, I want a factual basis, not one based on subjective and emotional responses.
Thank you for understanding that it is OK that I disagree with standard operating protocol. There are some that take personal offense in that, it seems.



I am of this opinion too. There are those that feel that because the breed clubs hold the standard, that makes them the custodians, or guardians of the breed. That everyone needs to fall in line with the breed clubs rules, whether they show or not.
I'm just not of the same mind set. That is why I asked why was 12 weeks recommended aside from behavior, which I disagree with, aside from hypoglycemia, and aside from the YTCA says so.
And to that end, EVEN IF someone is in America they should NOT be held by the edicts of a club they are NOT a member of. If I am NOT a member of the YTCA WHY on the WORLD should I give two figs what THEY say?

I think people need to remember that. YTCA rules are for YTCA MEMBERS. And if you're not a member, you're not bound by their rules. And you're not ever interested in becoming a member, (the VAST majority of Yorkie owners), then why should you be interested in following their rules before you DO become a member?

This is why having the information I learned on this thread is invaluable. I can't tell people not to get a puppy before 12 weeks of age because the YCTA says so. But I can point out potential health issues, fact based, to help interested puppy buyers make an informed choice.

Exactly. It's really simple. I don't listen to clubs either. I'm much more interested in credible authorities about the health of dogs (veterinarians) and what's best for their long term happiness (trainers).

[ladyjane]

While I don't buy any dogs and would never dream of it with the numbers dying each year, I understand people's love for raising a puppy.

I am not sure what age I would want a puppy to be ... I really have not given it much thought.

I think it is important that everyone express their personal thoughts and experiences in order to help others make a decision that makes them comfortable.

I really appreciate the posts that simply stick to that and ignore what bothers them about another person's thoughts. What some people don't seem to understand is that while someone else's thoughts (and perceived tone) may bother them, their thoughts (and perceived tone) bothers others.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

While I usually don't like writing inside posts, I thought it the best way to respond to this one.

Have you applied to moderate all of Taylor's posts? Maybe you should. Who are you to pick and pull apart all she writes? All the time? Please stop.