Microchip - yes or no?

[jeane]

definitely microchip

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

Sorry I had to disappear for a few minutes, I was in the middle of cooking dinner…..

I know we could trade links showing opposing views concerning safety in using a chip or the risks of cancer/tumor formation. The real problem is that we do not have a mandatory reporting system for these products. Right now it is strictly voluntary. I have seen stats concerning the reporting of adverse reactions of human products to be as low as 1% and at a high of 10%. Even if it is at the ten percent level this is totally unacceptable. The reporting for pet adverse reactions can’t possibly be higher than the rate for humans, so this is just as bad. As of now we really do not know how many cases are out there. Is it one or is it thousands?? At this point in time no one can really answer that, this is an unknown and depending which side the debate goes the numbers quoted will either be minimal or they will be large.

It would take a lot of time to investigate the studies and research papers to see if the author or researchers have any financial ties to the chip company, or if the chip company is funding the studies. That is why I specified that the research has to be done by unbiased parties. These types of things are very common in the medical field, it’s more common than not, sad to say.

I know many dogs have been returned to their owners because they where scanned and the chips where correctly registered. In those cases it worked as it should have. I would venture to say there is most likely many failures of returned pets even though the pet was chipped as in: chip not scanned even though the shelter had a scanner, chip migrated and the person scanning missed it, scanner not compatible with chip, failure of the chip because it’s defective, etc.etc. I am sure I read a couple stories of pets being adopted out and even euthanized because of these failures. I also came across articles raising the question as to what happens to a chip if the pet has to have a MRI , x-ray or a cat scan??? Has this ever been studied?......Are vets making sure they don’t administer any vaccines in the same area as the chip?? I’ve seen articles where this can cause an inflammatory process increasing the risks of tumors or possibly cancer forming. These sorts of things should be considered when opting to use chips.

All I’m saying is there are too many unknowns concerning this product. In the years to come I believe we will see more studies but until then *I* will wait….This is just one of those topics that is not answered with a simple*yes* or *no* answer. For each of us it will take a lot of thought and weighing of all the unknowns with the benefits in their use and then deciding if the reasons for its use is worth it for a our pets health and welfare…..

There seems to be a notion going around internet forums that if a company pays for research, the research is tainted. You can’t trust dog food companies that do research because they pay for their own research. Who should pay for it? You can design a study to get predictable results, but any first year lab student would see right through it. These studies are reviewed in scientific journals that are independent of any company. Believe me, when I say scientists will pick apart a study that they think is poorly designed. Studies are expensive, and a company would be very foolish to try and sway the results. They would lose all credibility in the scientific world. Futhermore, one study is worthless, it has to be replicated over and over so that they conclude the results weren’t just by chance. Then variables are manipulated to see what else the can learn. Conclusions are exceedingly cautiously prepared. So just because a company paid for a study, it doesn’t mean the study is not valid. Think of all the pharmaceuticals companies, they do plenty of their own testing, do you refuse to believe them as well? Lastly, vets are trained in science and scientific testing, it's there job to know if a certain procedure is safe. The first rule they learn is "First do no harm." They aren't making that much money per microchip, I doubt if my vet cleared $5.00.


Your thoughts on chips migrating have been addressed, and it's said that companies have learned of a way to keep this from happening. Again, have your vet check your microchip every year to see if it's has the data and isn't migrating. Concerning MRI etc. consult your vet, but here's what one place says about MRI's and microchips.

. . . main contraindication for MRI is the presence of certain metal implants (steel, pacemakers) in the patient. Animals with microchips may have MRI, although a microchip may cause local artifact. If metal is present in a patient close to the area of interest, artifacts might interfere with image interpretation. In very rare instances, a study might be non-diagnostic due to a metallic foreign body in the patient.

[KazzyK810]

I'll be traveling internationally with ZoE so she HAS to be microchipped.

I would have microchipped her anyway. It's cheap, painless if done while under anesthesia when being spayed and supports legal ownership.

[gracielove]

For one thing there will always be human error. It is a fact, however, I can't live my life fearful of things that there is no proof of. I trust my vet. She is a Cornell educated vet that reads all the studies and keeps up on all things concerning the animals she treats. She has her animals microchipped and advises others to do the same. There is a faction in society that feels that we should be afraid of everything. We have people living in the desert in holes in the ground because they are so fearful of modern society. While I think we certainly should not be open to everything that comes down the pike I also believe we cannot live in fear of everything new.
I would be more concerned about what some dog food manufacturers have put in pet foods than a microchip. Obesity and cancer have increased in our pets but not because of microchips.
There is a law that has been passed in our country that will require that all animals, both farm and domestic animals, be microchipped. This law is supposed to track disease in animals but when the government does something it is usually for control of some fashion. They keep putting back the enactment of this law mainly because they do not have the ability financially to get the program going. I am totally against forced microchipping. The government should not be able to tell us what we need to do with our animals but they will use a fear factor to get people to comply. I am against this not because of health reasons but because I am against government intrusion in our lives. The reality is this is a personal decision. No one should be made to feel badly either way about what they decide.

[jp4m2]

To the op, I’m sorry if your thread was taken into a direction which wasn’t what you where asking about. I thought you wanted differing opinions as to whether a person would or would not choose to use a chip. Since you had received many replies promoting its use I thought I would give another perspective. Personally, I would like to have any info I could get when it comes to the health of my pet so I offered other view. I didn’t expect my view to be selected for a debate as to why my view is incorrect in your thread.
Since this subject matter is for safety and not health I still stand by my view that we don’t have enough info as of yet to feel safe using a chip for *my* pets. This is a very personal decision we all have to make for our pets and I’m sure you’ll make the correct decision that is the right one for you and your pets…Good luck to you and again I’m sorry for side tracking your thread.


gracielove, I find your post insulting to say the least. If I choose not to use the chip at this time it in no way indicates that I made my decision solely out of baseless fears. I based my decision on conflicting and incomplete or short term studies along with the reports of cancer/tumors that are being reported. I can't dismiss those concerns at this time. Since this product is for safety issues there is no reason for me to be made to feel bad for choosing not to implant.This in no way makes your opinion promoting it's use any more valid than mine for not using it. I'm just being cautious..... This is the last I will post in this thread, I'm sorry again to the OP.

[gracielove]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

To the op, I’m sorry if your thread was taken into a direction which wasn’t what you where asking about. I thought you wanted differing opinions as to whether a person would or would not choose to use a chip. Since you had received many replies promoting its use I thought I would give another perspective. Personally, I would like to have any info I could get when it comes to the health of my pet so I offered other view. I didn’t expect my view to be selected for a debate as to why my view is incorrect in your thread.
Since this subject matter is for safety and not health I still stand by my view that we don’t have enough info as of yet to feel safe using a chip for *my* pets. This is a very personal decision we all have to make for our pets and I’m sure you’ll make the correct decision that is the right one for you and your pets…Good luck to you and again I’m sorry for side tracking your thread.


gracielove, I find your post insulting to say the least. If I choose not to use the chip at this time it in no way indicates that I made my decision solely out of baseless fears. I based my decision on conflicting and incomplete or short term studies along with the reports of cancer/tumors that are being reported. I can't dismiss those concerns at this time. Since this product is for safety issues there is no reason for me to be made to feel bad for choosing not to implant.This in no way makes your opinion promoting it's use any more valid than mine for not using it. I'm just being cautious..... This is the last I will post in this thread, I'm sorry again to the OP.

Well, feel free to feel insulted if that is the way you take it. I said nothing in my post about "baseless fears. " I said I choose to trust my vet who is a well educated woman who keeps up on all the research. These days you can find research to support whatever view you choose to take. I choose not to live in fear. I also said NO ONE should be made to feel badly about the choice they make. You, however, chose to be insulted by a statement that was in no way intended to offend anyone. It is my opinion. It may be contrary to your opinion but it is you who choose to take offense. Have a wonderful day.

[lil fu fu girl]

Jp4m2 said:
"To the op, I’m sorry if your thread was taken into a direction which wasn’t what you where asking about. I thought you wanted differing opinions as to whether a person would or would not choose to use a chip. Since you had received many replies promoting its use I thought I would give another perspective. Personally, I would like to have any info I could get when it comes to the health of my pet so I offered other view. I didn’t expect my view to be selected for a debate as to why my view is incorrect in your thread.
Since this subject matter is for safety and not health I still stand by my view that we don’t have enough info as of yet to feel safe using a chip for *my* pets. This is a very personal decision we all have to make for our pets and I’m sure you’ll make the correct decision that is the right one for you and your pets…Good luck to you and again I’m sorry for side tracking your thread."

Jp4m2....you have nothing to apologize for. The OP asked for EVERYONES opinion.
Unfortunately, there are some here who feel Only their opinion is required when it comes to this particular topic, and if your opinion happens to be different, then you need to be pigeon-holed until you agree with them. They are a small minority, many of which have never been in a clinical R&D setting: most never truly understanding the mechanics, let alone the biological effects of RFID technologies. I, personally, am thankful for your invaluable research and effort into this topic.
From all of us on the other side, thank you, and keep up the good work.

[yorkiemini]

The microchip technology and track record is far more stable than the FDA approval system for human medications and the side effects that have been misrepresented by research done by the developers. The bottom line here is CHOICE. In this country we do not have to chip. I go with my vet's opinion because I respect their knowledge in this area and I have had several dogs with chips with no problems.

I do wish the vets would scan every new patient and record the data in case a lost/stolen pet come their way.

You are so correct -- every opinion is of value, we learn from each other -- that is what is so great about Yokie Talk. I want to hear what EVERYONE has to say.

[yorkietalkjilly]

I didn't get the feel at all that some thought their opinion was the only one that should be considered or taken to heart. I am glad to get all the good info, myself, and know the rest of us are as well, but until we start to hear this is really damaging dogs, I have to weigh the chances that my dog could get separated from me somehow over the course of the next 12 - 15 years being a tiny and adorable Yorkie that is impulsive(despite his almost constant behavior modification training) and adventurous; and weighing what looks most likely at this time to cause us problems, it is getting lost vs. tumors. If I start to hear credible evidence that tumors and cancers are being noted in other than negligible numbers, I will have the chip removed and any recommended treatment.

Am glad for all the discussion and info I can get on this subject so thanks to all posters. Keep the info coming.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I didn't get the feel at all that some thought their opinion was the only one that should be considered or taken to heart. I am glad to get all the good info, myself, and know the rest of us are as well, but until we start to hear this is really damaging dogs, I have to weigh the chances that my dog could get separated from me somehow over the course of the next 12 - 15 years being a tiny and adorable Yorkie that is impulsive(despite his almost constant behavior modification training) and adventurous; and weighing what looks most likely at this time to cause us problems, it is getting lost vs. tumors. If I start to hear credible evidence that tumors and cancers are being noted in other than negligible numbers, I will have the chip removed and any recommended treatment.

Am glad for all the discussion and info I can get on this subject so thanks to all posters. Keep the info coming.

I agree with you and I hope I didn’t make anyone feel badly about posting their opinion. I was offering my opinion about the links posted with supposedly evidence of some type of conflicting reports. I find none of the sites legitimate.


Reading the first sites Mission Statement :
http://www.chipmenot.org/ourmission.htm• REPEALING LEGISLATION: To repeal laws, ordinances, and regulations that mandate the microchipping of animals.

Makes me think there’s a strong possibility the site is sponsored by commercial breeders and dog fighting enthusiasts both groups want to see microchips banned.

The second link is about horses, and not dogs, and I haven’t read enough of the literature on horses to discuss this.

The third link I couldn’t read because you have to join before you can read, but just because someone is sueing a company, it doesn’t mean a thing the lawsuit has any credibility.
In my opinion, these links can’t be compared to the opinions offered by the AVMA.

For me, it not so much about the microchips themselves, that a personal decision, it's about not playing into commercial breeders/dog fighting enthusiasts hands. I seriously don't think many of you realize how big the dog fighting world is, I truly believe that is a real problem, and while Yorkies as a breed may not be "fighting" small dogs have been used for bait. As pet owners we should do everything help end the inhumane conditions for dogs in this country. Passing on information from sites such as this might help stop some of the legislation from being pasted, if enough pet owners overreact. I’ve also read how the groups are targeting conservative churches saying that microchips are the “sign of the beast”. Remember, most of the legislation only applies to commercial breeders it won't affect pet owners, although I believe some states/counties would like to require it for a dog found wondering the streets three times, and I'm all for that too!

[addevo]

I volunteer at the front desk for our local animal shelter, and take calls from frantic owners looking for their missing pets. I also greet the Good Samaritans who had find stray animals and bring them to the shelter. Animals that are micro-chipped are only two phone calls from being reunited with their owners. One call to the manufacturer to get the owner info, and one call to the owner telling them that their pet has been found.

(But micro-chipping isn't enough. You MUST remember to update the manufacturer with your information every time you move, or when you get a new cell phone number.)

There is a reason that shelters, rescue groups and vets promote micro-chipping, and it isn't because they make money off of them. It's because they know that they are a valuable tool in keeping owners and pets together.

No matter how careful we are with our pets, there is always a risk that they will become lost. I won't bore you with all of the unlikely stories I've heard, but even the most loved and pampered animals get lost. Collars can come off, or be removed by pet thieves. I'd never heard that there could be health risks from the micro-chip itself, but that risk seems small in comparison to what can happen if any of my animals get lost or stolen.

I will always microchip my animals.

[lil fu fu girl]

Physiciansforlife.org

The link above provides sufficient medical information from numerous scientific medical studies and oncology specialists to raise concern about micro-chipping, as Jp4m2 has stated repeatedly.
It also gives breadth to the appointment of Tommy Thompson to the board of VeriChip Corp, and his unusual "kick-back" in the form of cash and stock options, once the device was approved by the FDA; a division of HHS which Thompson headed. All in all an excellent read.

I do believe in everyone's right to vocalize their opinion in such forums, especially concerning such a scholarly current topic. I especially find those fighting for animals to be exceptionally determined to express themselves; and I find much honor in that. Speaking out for those who cannot speak for themselves.
However, continually berating someone who has a differing opinion then you to the point where they feel the need to leave a thread, hmmm, funny........ I somehow find no honor in that.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Physiciansforlife.org

The link above provides sufficient medical information from numerous scientific medical studies and oncology specialists to raise concern about micro-chipping, as Jp4m2 has stated repeatedly.
It also gives breadth to the appointment of Tommy Thompson to the board of VeriChip Corp, and his unusual "kick-back" in the form of cash and stock options, once the device was approved by the FDA; a division of HHS which Thompson headed. All in all an excellent read.

I do believe in everyone's right to vocalize their opinion in such forums, especially concerning such a scholarly current topic. I especially find those fighting for animals to be exceptionally determined to express themselves; and I find much honor in that. Speaking out for those who cannot speak for themselves.
However, continually berating someone who has a differing opinion then you to the point where they feel the need to leave a thread, hmmm, funny........ I somehow find no honor in that.

Are you saying I berated someone? I feel like there have been attempts to shut me up, because I have a different opinion, and I find no honor in that.

[Jennxling]

I've never lost my babies and hope to never have to go through it. However, both our babies are microchipped just in case I will be getting them scanned next time we go to the vet just to make sure the chip is still in. I heard they sometimes can fall out or something...

[Valenie]

Originally Posted by Jennxling

I've never lost my babies and hope to never have to go through it. However, both our babies are microchipped just in case I will be getting them scanned next time we go to the vet just to make sure the chip is still in. I heard they sometimes can fall out or something...

Wow really ?? I have never heard that!