Blue Buffalo Lamb and Rice

[Ellie May]

I'm definitely far from an expert, Susan. I follow the advice of my veterinary nutritionist and her views on food because she has much more knowledge on the subject than I.

[susan lynn]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'm definitely far from an expert, Susan. I follow the advice of my veterinary nutritionist and her views on food because she has much more knowledge on the subject than I.

Thanks I will ask my vet we are scheduled for shots this week.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'm definitely far from an expert, Susan. I follow the advice of my veterinary nutritionist and her views on food because she has much more knowledge on the subject than I.

I too follow the same veterinary nutritionist's advice and I can say that she's the only person on this planet besides me who is going to decide what my dogs eat. I would rather go with the advice of a nutritionist with 30 years of experience who is in charge of the nutritional needs of 45,000 pets per year at an urban hospital than I would any lay owner or armchair nutritionist. She is worth every penny I pay her and then some. And, I could never thank her enough for keeping my dog alive.

With that being said, I recently asked her for a suggestion for a kibble for my dog Teddy who is a healthy dog aside from epilepsy. She recommended Royal Canin any small breed formula. I picked up the Yorkshire Terrier formula. I thought I might get the squirts or an upset tummy since my dogs have been on home cooked bland food most of their lives and that is all Teddy has eaten since puppyhood. He has firm stools that are compact, his breath is good, he does not have gas, and he likes the food. I will still be home cooking for philosophical reasons but having a kibble on hand is a convenience I need right now.

I like the Royal Canin food so far, I do not trust holistic companies and neither does my vet nutritionist. I would have selected another product based on ingredients but I've come to realize that she is right when she says there are things that are more important than "melodious sounding ingredients concocted by marketing gurus."

[Ringo1]

Ok. Am I behind the times here?

I thought Royal Canin was BAD and all the newfangled kibbles were GOOD.

How did I get out of the loop?

Currently, Lucy is on BB Senior and seems to be doing well, so I have no plans to change anytime soon. But I do need a lower protein kibble so I'm always on the lookout for that.

[Ellie May]

No you aren't. I've had a change of heart recently over the whole nutrition debate and have decided to stop believing what the general public writes in these articles and listen to an expert exclusively. Now I may see something interesting and ask her about it, but in the end nobody on the internet can really sit there and say X major company's food is bad because of XYZ. It's not that easy.

Dogs have a need for nitrogen and amino acids, not meat, so kibbles with higher meat content don't always appeal to me. I have to wonder how much harm we are doing with these newer foods because a very large % of dogs are in the beginnings of renal failure by middle age. It doesn't show up on bloodwork til much later. Feeding high phosphorus foods is probably not doing the kidneys any favors.

I think larger companies have a bit more of an advantage when dealing with quality control. I also like to see a vet nutritionist on staff. They are expensive to hire which is just it. Companies that want to pocket more money won't have one... I also see a lack of feeding trials for a lot of newer companies. A food can get AAFCO approved by nutrient analysis or a 6 month feeding trial. The former is about $100. The latter is about $20,000. Smaller companies don't spend money on it. Now it is only 6 months, but it does keep the worst foods off the market. And the thought that leather shoes and motor oil could pass AAFCO, theoretically true with a nutrient analysis, but a 6 month feeding trial..not going to pass when it becomes evident that digestion is way off. If no feeding trial, then the owners that feed the food are doing the trial for the company. Maybe not horrible, but I have hesitations about that.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

Ok. Am I behind the times here?

I thought Royal Canin was BAD and all the newfangled kibbles were GOOD.

How did I get out of the loop?

Currently, Lucy is on BB Senior and seems to be doing well, so I have no plans to change anytime soon. But I do need a lower protein kibble so I'm always on the lookout for that.

I think it depends on who you ask and who you believe. My post sums up who I asked and who I believe. That's the person I'm going to listen to. She only recommends companies who allow her to tour their facilities, and most don't (which makes you ask why the heck not, seems it would be a good business decision to have ACVNs recommend their products). Anyway, as for my own experience here, as I pointed out, my dog is doing very well on this food, which really suprised me given the immediate switch from home cooked very bland food (main ingredients being chicken breast and rice; white fish and rice). He has firm compact low odor stools, he has no gas, his breath is good, and he likes the food. She called it right for my dog, that's all I know.

[Ellie May]

ETA: Meat in dog food is not a bad thing. High protein diets (31%+++) are questionable at best. I would not be opposed to feeding a food with more meat and no soy, but I don't think it's necessary. On average, I'm much more comfortable with SD or RC even if they do get their protein from plant sources. Any company can have issues and recalls, but I just can't trust small companies anymore.

Look at Evangers. They lied about the type of meat in their food.
Merrick is just one big recall.
Go killed dogs.
Blue had nutrient issues and was recalled.
Diamond had major issues.
Menu can't recall a food fast enough.

So I have a hard time believing that these foods are safer and better for pets.

[hugz4all4]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

JMO.
I'd feed NB, but I'd sooner choose something else. I have a soft spot for the company for whatever reason. They seem to have quality control covered. Dogs aren't dying on the food. But they don't have a veterinary nutritionist on staff and they don't seem to do any feeding trials? Why?

Anyway, 16% fat and 28% protein is fine for a healthy Yorkie, IMO. But these are minimums and sometimes cmaller companies have issues with food consistency. So I'd want to know what the maximum percentages are. If this is much beyong 19-20% fat or 30% protein max, I wouldn't be thrilled. And it's full of meat, so full of phosphorous. Your call on whether that is good or not... I wouldn't freak out over feding it, but I also wouldn't choose to feed it. Really comes down to your feelings on ideal protein and fat % and the trust of the company that you do or don't have...

Thanks so much. I have tried so many other foods and my dogs do well on it for a little while then problems start to arise, like stomach issues..vomiting, diareah, gas, low energy, exteme eye tearing, itching and the list goes on. SD is the only brand of food that all my dogs have seem to be able to tolerate but because of their bad rep. I have stayed away from them. I should of just listen to my dogs.. As far as protien and fat goes I have to stay low..I have two dogs, (sheltie and my yorkie mix) that cant have anything over 28 percent so I was pushing the limit with this food. They all are doing well so far but Im pretty sure after this bag Im going back to SD.

[Ichabob]

Merrick is just one big recall

But wasn't merrick recall on treats and not their food.

Purina had a recall on cat food last week, and some of their livestock feed.

I wish there was just one company that was safe, never change their food, why is that so hard?

[megansmomma]

I am just loving all of this information about the kibble choices. Currently, I am feeding Natural Balance but have also given Evanger's in the past until the recalls. There is a small dog boutique that I sometimes go to that sell those frozen raw medallions and at one point had even considered it. But after seeing a owners with sick dogs decided to just stay with that seems to be working. It's pretty shocking to see some of the raw feeders and how opposed they are to kibble feeders and those of us who feed DEATH NUGGETS Can you believe I actually read on another forum this is what they call kibble feeders.
Personally, I have never had any issues with my NB but have considered trying the RC. But my motto is "If it aint' broke don't fix it". So unless NB changes formulas like they did once before I will probably just stay put for now.
I'm so glad to hear positive input regarding the RC. At least I know others on the forum that are having success with this food

[Ellie May]

Yup, it has been their treats and canned food. 5 or 6 times? It's a fairly new company and that is a lot of recalls for the amount of animal food they produce. Also, when dogs were getting liver failure from Go dog food, it is thought that it was being manufactured at Merrick.

Unfortunately, they will all have recalls. I think the larger companies can test for more issues and such. And they have more at stake if something were to happen.

[Ichabob]

It's a never ending battle to find the right food.
I do not feed the higher protein, my dogs even the outside ones are not that active.

I learn from my horse a higher protein can cause him to go crazy or hyper, lower protein he some what better, just on pasture he's perfect. he's is 30 yrs old.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

No you aren't. I've had a change of heart recently over the whole nutrition debate and have decided to stop believing what the general public writes in these articles and listen to an expert exclusively. Now I may see something interesting and ask her about it, but in the end nobody on the internet can really sit there and say X major company's food is bad because of XYZ. It's not that easy.

Dogs have a need for nitrogen and amino acids, not meat, so kibbles with higher meat content don't always appeal to me. I have to wonder how much harm we are doing with these newer foods because a very large % of dogs are in the beginnings of renal failure by middle age. It doesn't show up on bloodwork til much later. Feeding high phosphorus foods is probably not doing the kidneys any favors.

I think larger companies have a bit more of an advantage when dealing with quality control. I also like to see a vet nutritionist on staff. They are expensive to hire which is just it. Companies that want to pocket more money won't have one... I also see a lack of feeding trials for a lot of newer companies. A food can get AAFCO approved by nutrient analysis or a 6 month feeding trial. The former is about $100. The latter is about $20,000. Smaller companies don't spend money on it. Now it is only 6 months, but it does keep the worst foods off the market. And the thought that leather shoes and motor oil could pass AAFCO, theoretically true with a nutrient analysis, but a 6 month feeding trial..not going to pass when it becomes evident that digestion is way off. If no feeding trial, then the owners that feed the food are doing the trial for the company. Maybe not horrible, but I have hesitations about that.

Excellent post! This is also one of the main problems I have with people who brag that their dog food brand does no testing on animals! This makes no sense to me, if the company doesn't test, then the dog owners are testing, and to me, this is horrible!

I really never thought I’d see a thread such as this on Yorkietalk. Every time I have written that I use Royal Canin, I’ve been lambasted as being an idiot and buying into what the dog food companies tell me. I’ve been told I’m wasting my money, and I must not love Joey very much. I’ve tried another brand, but he had massive amount of eye drainage within a couple of days. I waited till the tears were clear and tried it again and same thing happened, so I’m sure it was the food. Let me just say, RC is the main food Joey gets, I use it for our training so there’s no need for “treats” he thinks it’s a treat. He has no gas, no vomiting, diarrhea, no itching, abundant beautiful shinny hair, good smelling mouth and his teeth are in excellent condition. I agree with Jodi, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, but I’ve got to say, all the negativity about RC has made me wonder if I was doing right by Joey.

[Ellie May]

I've believed everything in these articles without running it by a professional. Now I look back and I'm like..oops. lol. A big one for me was thinking an unbalanced, homecooked diet was okay because that's what other people were doing. I soon learned that Missing Link can't possibly balance it out. Waste of 20 bucks.

Of all things, a Purina product is working for Ellie and I really don't care what people think of that because it's not their dog that was going downhill quickly over ingredient intolerance. Her body is doing best on hydrolyzed soy and corn starch this month? Ok, that's what she'll have!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I've believed everything in these articles without running it by a professional. Now I look back and I'm like..oops. lol. A big one for me was thinking an unbalanced, homecooked diet was okay because that's what other people were doing. I soon learned that Missing Link can't possibly balance it out. Waste of 20 bucks.

Of all things, a Purina product is working for Ellie and I really don't care what people think of that because it's not their dog that was going downhill quickly over ingredient intolerance. Her body is doing best on hydrolyzed soy and corn starch this month? Ok, that's what she'll have!

I think thats the best advice of all, listen to your dog!