Just read my own post after I posted - not sure I made sense to even me! I shouldn't try to read, post and watch "Big Bang" at the same time! :eek:

I am not trying to change the color of the biewer. I am, however, trying to bring in darker, richer colors..because thats what I prefer for my breeding program.

The history was not invented, it was but together by many people doing hours and hours of research. All of the information on the parti color has documentation to back it.

The YTCA needs to do a little research on the subject, instead of just denying the facts. Yes facts, documented facts. letters from long time breeders, which state the facts. Facts from show registries, facts written in books from some of the top authorities in the country on yorkshire Terriers.

One can stick their head in the sand, but that does not change the FACTS.

I doubt your parti's will stay that dark, Breny. They are likely to gold out....maybe not but they do change.

Question for parti breeders and I don't mean parti x biewer breeders....I asking strictly people who have breed akc parti to akc parti.

Do the dogs "blue" out? Just curious.

While we are discussing color....the BBCA had a color coat study done on our biewers by Dr. Sheila Schmutz. Diana provided a link to one of her pages. The results determined the dogs coloring was piebald (sPsP). Dogs with piebald spotting have varying amounts of color...from a very little to a lot

Dog Coat Color Genetics

The color placement is not the result of the irish spotting gene. There is a modifier called SINE....dogs which are homozygous (meaning both parents offer the same gene) for this gene produce the pattern.

MITF and White Spotting in Dogs: A Population Study

Dr Schmutz performs color coat studies by request also.

Thats ok if they do...I just don't like the faded out and mostly white biewers or partis . I wasn't saying my biewers or partis will be black.

So then Deb, if both parents don't have this modifier, then the pup has more of the random pattern one normally associates with the Piebald patterning instead of the Irish spotting pattern look that the Biewer is best known for.. Interesting..

I'd also be interested to here what people have to say about the "blue" or black on the Parti's..

Irish-spotting (white on muzzle, forehead, feet, legs, chest,belly and tip of tail, but not crossing the back beyond the withers.
Article on Irish spotting....White spotting on Cardigans, Collies, and other herding dogs - Ruffly Speaking

Yes my parti's black turns blue with age. Just as the head turns gold as a yorkie does. It doesn't stay dark.

I love all yorkies... but if I must choose I would stick with biewers. I love the tricolor and hope I can buy a couple in some years when my babies are old. :) Although I wished there were gold dust yorkies with a darker gold on their saddle. Then I would have to own both parti and biewer. lol

You pulled a me! You also can pull a me if you don't read a whole thread and respond to the OP and then when you get a response saying "what the yorkies" about your post, you realize your response to the OP was bizarre considering the change or events updated in the thread...it's awesome!

Biewers and Parti color yorkies both can be tri-colored.
To be a Biewer : 1. the puppy must come from Lines that trace back to Mr Biewers dogs. 2. It must be Parti colored .

The Parti color yorkie is not a separate breed it is a Yorkshire Terrier
Some golds and chocolates can be registered Parti color only if they have the amount of white on them to be a parti color.
The AKC definition for Parti-color :Two or more definite, well-broken colors, one of which must be white.
There are Tri color parti's, Liver Parti's and Gold Partis but they must have white.
Then there are just gold yorkies and liver color yorkies.

The same is with Biewers, only the Biewer clubs do not accept the livers and golds. So someone came up with names for their other colors separate.
The Biewer is not AKC so I guess they can call them what they want.

The gold biewers are Goldust, the Liver Biewers are Biro's and now the Cream colors are called Ocean Pearls. With the Biewer it depends what color the puppy is as to how it is registered. You can have pups from the same litter and they can be registered as separate breeds in the Biewer lines.:rolleyes:

AKC registers all our colors as Yorkshire Terriers and are not registered as separate breeds no matter what color they are, they are all registered as Yorkshire terriers. WE use the term Parti yorkie to describe the color of dog we have. Their registration papers do not call them Parti Yorkshire Terriers. It just says Parti color in the color description area on the Papers .

In the end though, in my opinion, they are the same and are all Yorkies.

I fully understand those YTCA breeders who breed to meet the standards and the people who only are looking for a dog that meets those standards. I admire the work and knowledge they put into bettering the breed. There are standards a show breeder would be knowledgeable about that a pet owner would not be aware of and maybe never even have the trained eye to notice.
It make me sad to read that some would never pay for a Biewer or Parti and putting them in the same category as mutts. It seems to me that the responsible Biewer and Parti breeders are breeding to the Beiwer standards or Parti to the Yorkie standards except for color? They seems to be very concerned with the health issues etc. In my case I would willingly pay for a dog from responsible breeders who are breeding to the betterment of their breed standard and screening for health issues although it may not be to YTCA standards. I have a taste for things that are a little different which is why I am interested in the Biewer or Parti.
I just do not understand why some people think the are substandard as opposed to off standard. Were not Yorkies a crossbreed of different dogs some of which no longer exist? Once the wealthy discovered the dogs and began showing them the standards were developed. Is that not what the Biewer and Parti people are trying to do but they are at the beginning of the process and are using the knowledge gained from the YTCA as a basis for their standards?
I am not trying to be confrontational or implying anyone else's opinion is not right, nor do I have issues with the YTCA standards.

FACT is, I wasn't even going to post on this thread until those who actually know what a Yorkshire Terrier is were called ignorant haters.

FACT is that there are several historical mentions of off-colored Yorkie-type dogs. NONE of these mentions are flattering in any way or serve to legitimize the parti. Here's one from 1894 that you choose to ignore time after time and it's typical of the other historical mentions of these dogs.

"There are some other rough-haired toy terriers, which are, however, of little account, because they have never been bred to any particular type. Occasionally wee things very like what a miniature Skye terrier would be are seen; and, again, some smart little dogs with cut ears, evidently a cross between a Yorkshire terrier and some other variety of small dog, are not at all uncommon, and were quite numerous before the dog show era commenced. Since then the general public will not look at anything other than what is considered to be of blue blood. At one of the early London shows separate classes were provided for Scotch terriers under 7lb. weight and white in colour, fawns with the same limit, and blues likewise, each of the three attracting a fair entry, most of which were, however, what we should now call "cross-bred" broken-haired toy terriers."

From this link... Yorkshire And Other Toy Terriers. Part 4

FACT is the Yorkshire Terrier standard has ALWAYS been that of a blue and tan dog. Any 'history' about any other dog is not talking about a Yorkshire Terrier. I would refer you to the above quote from 1894 to determine what type dog your FACTS talk about.

I said that the color code that AKC now allows partis is inarguable. I give you that. However, AKC went against its own protocol in doing that. The parent club is the one that sets the standard and AKC merely sanctions it. Here's the link to AKC's own procedure for writing breed standards. http://www.galomyoak.com/files/AKC_B...rd_Writing.pdf Find for me if you will where the AKC can arbitrarily go against the parent club in revising standards. Really, the first paragraph says it all.

FACT is, I'm not a member of the YTCA so no need to bring them up when addressing posts made by me.

FACT is there are no FACTS in the parti Yorkie *history*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In fairness, I'm posting the links to the parti history by both parti clubs. People can read for themselves and decide what to make of it. Here they are...

CYTC...Party Color

Parti Yorkie - PARTI YORKSHIRE TERRIER CLUB

In the last link, you can click on the Joan Gordon letter to read it. It's about her 'tri-colored dog' and includes her opinion on mis-marked dogs.

All pure bred dogs came from cross breeding other dogs. That's a given. Once a type has been set and a standard written, it's just basic breeding to breed only to/for the standard. That is one of the essential tenets of pure bred dog breeding. Purposely breeding FOR a fault goes against this very basic concept of pure bred dog breeding. It's disingenuous to promote a fanciful 'history' to justify breeding for off-standard dogs, even the cute ones.

I love all dogs even those that are mutts or mixed breeds :) They are all God's creatures and deserve love and affection and a wonderful home! Not calling parti's or biewers mixed or mutts just I am a purest and believe in the purebred standard and doesn't mean I don't have my eyes wide open or mind closed to the fact that in every breed a fault will appear :) All dogs deserve our love just I happen to believe in the yorkie "standard" and advocate the standard set forth by the YTCA standard even if I weren't a member.
I wish peace to all and their furbabies!

Donna

Beautiful!!