What to do....plz dont judge!

[Connie]

Just because this yorkie would be coming from a BYB does not mean she will have health problems. I have less health problems from my one that I got from a back yard breeder than I have with the other two. I'm with Yorkie Rose...take the puppy!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by KendraE

Wow...so many mixed opinions..just how I feel..."mixed up"!

Answer to couple of your questions:

1st off, My daughter is 15 years old. She is a terrific kid. She does well in school, involved in many extra-curriclular activities, a cheerleader, helps me with a non-profit for needy children I head, respectful, etc. Shes just a good kid. We own a t-shirt business and she works for us. We treat her as any other employee and she works hard for her "spending" money. She has already bought food, a playpen, clothes, toys, etc for her future girl. Of course, she was really hoping Macs litter was going to give her that girl. She is mature and we have discussed finding a good breeder and taking our time. Although, she really wants a baby now, she was more than willing to wait for the right one. Of course, now she really has her hopes up of getting this pup.

2nd...I feel as some of you do. If we take this baby, I know it will be in a good, loving home never to be bred. I am also aware that she may have behavioral issues and possibly medical as well. Honestly, that doesnt scare me. Ive mentioned before that both of my children were never expected to make it and they did. Fortunatley, we are in the financial position to care for her if God forbid she does have problems. But at the same time....little Mac may have serious problems too....Do I want 2??

3rd...the breeder. Her and I were just aquaintances in the beginning, and arent friends per say now, but we have obviously kept in touch because Macs mother is here at my home until he is weaned. I have now been to her home to see where she has her yorkies. Most are crated and she lets them have backyard time in the day. By no means, is it a good operation. You will be happy to hear that I have had numerous conversations with her over breeding, telling her all I have learned here. I really think Ive made a breakthough. She was letting pups go at 6-8 weeks. She now knows the importance of 12. I have talked with her about breeding smaller females and she now knows it is very unsafe and has promised not to do it again. She also has promised to have Macs mother spayed. She is wanting me to help her learn to breed "right", but I still feel it will be back yard breeding. The female yesterday was the 1st dog she has had sonogramed. I told her this was important to know how many in case of delivery problems, and she listened. I feel good knowing that maybe I am making a small difference by sharing the knowledge you all have taught me.

With all that being said...I still have this blanket of guilt towering over me for considering to take this puppy. At least I have quite a while to decide. I dont know why I feel this way. I just want to do the RIGHT thing.

Caring for one "special needs pup/dog" is difficult, caring for potentially two? There is the financial wherewithall of course, which if you have it is a moot point. But the emotional rollercoasters, the watching the pain in your dog's eyes and movement, the tearing at your heart as you struggle to provide the best care for the best quality of life. That payment in your heart's blood can only be decided by you.

And for me, just because I jumped off a cliff once, doesn't mean I have to do it again. So the fact that you bred to her once, doesn't mean you have to support her now, or feel obligated to take a "free" pup.

So let me ask you this, what apart from the sonogram has this breeder done differently when she bred? What were her pre breeding tests, and screenings? Does she now know the health of her lines? Why did she select this pair to breed?

If you want to go into this with your eyes wide open, then ask many questions.

One way you can continue to help this breeder is to encourage her to join a local breed club, preferably toy or a local Yorkshire terrier breed club. Encourage her to join YT and to read and read and read. Encourage her to attend shows. Buy her a book on the Yorkshire Terrier, it's history etc.

Work through that blanket of guilt you have. Try to define "why" you feel guilty. Questions of ethics or morals, are often times murky, but with time and self inquiry you may lift that blanket, and see your way to a clear decision that supports your own values/ethics.

[KendraE]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

ArmaniMan already mentioned health and behavioral issues, so I won't bring it up again other than to say that you really should be concerned that she hasn't taken steps before this litter to improve her breeding stock. But something I haven't seen here is the mention that there won't necessarily BE a female in the litter. Will you be disappointed if there isn't and would you take another male?.

Would I be disappointed? No! That would make it easier because we would not even consider taking one. I think 2 boys are plenty! And perhaps that will be the case. In fact, maybe I should hope for no little girls! Then I would just venture on to find a good breeder!

Thanks so much for all of your insight. You have given me some peace on the matter. I'm thinking if there is a female we should "rescue" her. I know she would find a lifetime of love here!

[YorkieRose]

Over the years I have had breeders just about "leave" pups on my door step...some they could not sell, others who needed vet care..some perfectly healthy and the breeder just wanted out... I have gone to some pretty low down and dirty places to get unwanted puppies/adults...and I have been critized for "helping" these types of breeders...who cares, it is all about the dog.

[DvlshAngel985]

Gemy, thank you for saying everything I was thinking.
OP I applaud you for "mentoring" this breeder. I believe that's an admirable thing so that she can learn to do things right.

Originally Posted by gemy

Caring for one "special needs pup/dog" is difficult, caring for potentially two? There is the financial wherewithall of course, which if you have it is a moot point. But the emotional rollercoasters, the watching the pain in your dog's eyes and movement, the tearing at your heart as you struggle to provide the best care for the best quality of life. That payment in your heart's blood can only be decided by you.

And for me, just because I jumped off a cliff once, doesn't mean I have to do it again. So the fact that you bred to her once, doesn't mean you have to support her now, or feel obligated to take a "free" pup.

So let me ask you this, what apart from the sonogram has this breeder done differently when she bred? What were her pre breeding tests, and screenings? Does she now know the health of her lines? Why did she select this pair to breed?

If you want to go into this with your eyes wide open, then ask many questions.

One way you can continue to help this breeder is to encourage her to join a local breed club, preferably toy or a local Yorkshire terrier breed club. Encourage her to join YT and to read and read and read. Encourage her to attend shows. Buy her a book on the Yorkshire Terrier, it's history etc.

Work through that blanket of guilt you have. Try to define "why" you feel guilty. Questions of ethics or morals, are often times murky, but with time and self inquiry you may lift that blanket, and see your way to a clear decision that supports your own values/ethics.

[Dixies Mom]

This breeder you are referring to, used your male to sire another litter which produced a "blue baby"? (correct?) What is in the linage of your male and the female who produced the 'Blue Pup'?
The concerns you are posting now on a potential pup that may be given to you, are concerns that should have been addressed when you allowed this breeder to use your male to begin with... right?
From what I am understanding from this thread, you have more than supported this BYB by allowing her to use your male to produce babies.
I'm not judging, I just don't understand why you are asking if it is ok to accept this pup.

[susan lynn]

[QUOTE=YorkieRose;3485736]Oh, for Pete's sakes, take the puppy. You bred your male to her bitch and got a puppy, what is the difference now...
The worst breeder in the world could offer me a free Yorkie and I would take it...if nothing else, you can find it a wonderful forever home...or it may be a great pet for you...[/QUOte I AGREE, WISH I COULD HAVE SAID THIS

[ArmaniMan]

Let me be clear, I wasn't saying that every pup that comes from a BYB will have health problems- just that it is a much higher chance then compared to a puppy from a good breeder, who does all the health testing, etc. Obviously, I know nothing about the OP's financial resources, but the question doesn't even end there. Having the money to shell out isn't everything- I had it- I can't tell you how many vets/specialists offices I sat in crying my eyes out over diagnosis I was given. I worry more, because the OP says the puppy is for a 15 year girl- no matter how mature she is, I can only imagine how hard it would be on her if something was wrong with "her" puppy. I am not trying to be mean, but just to give another side of the story beyond the cute puppy- because lord knows the puppy IS going to be cute and cuddly. Of course the decision lies with the OP- and if taken the puppy will be the lucky one- because based on the way little Mac is taken care of, she will get the very best in life. If it was solely a question of what was best for the pup- obviously being in the OP's home is it. Again, I am not saying not to get the puppy, I was just trying to provide something else to think about. Whatever decision you make- Good Luck!

[KendraE]

Originally Posted by Dixies Mom

This breeder you are referring to, used your male to sire another litter which produced a "blue baby"? (correct?) What is in the linage of your male and the female who produced the 'Blue Pup'?
The concerns you are posting now on a potential pup that may be given to you, are concerns that should have been addressed when you allowed this breeder to use your male to begin with... right?
From what I am understanding from this thread, you have more than supported this BYB by allowing her to use your male to produce babies.
I'm not judging, I just don't understand why you are asking if it is ok to accept this pup.

If you go back and read my previous threads, you will better understand. I was ignorant and made a mistake.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by Dixies Mom

This breeder you are referring to, used your male to sire another litter which produced a "blue baby"? (correct?) What is in the linage of your male and the female who produced the 'Blue Pup'?
The concerns you are posting now on a potential pup that may be given to you, are concerns that should have been addressed when you allowed this breeder to use your male to begin with... right?
From what I am understanding from this thread, you have more than supported this BYB by allowing her to use your male to produce babies.
I'm not judging, I just don't understand why you are asking if it is ok to accept this pup.

It takes two carriers to produce a Blue Born. And I believe Blue borns cannot reproduce. So in other word the Bitch and the Dog carry this gene and should never be bred.

I spoke with my mentor about your situation today and she said she would take the bitch and keep it or sell it. It's up to you. Good Luck and know we are here for you.

[Dixies Mom]

Originally Posted by KendraE

If you go back and read my previous threads, you will better understand. I was ignorant and made a mistake.

What further mistake would you be making if you took a pup from this litter? Did your male sire these as well? I guess I don't understand why you are asking for advice on accepting a 'free pup' when if this person is the BYB you say she is, she will just sell it anyway furthering the lining of her pockets at the expence of the breed.

[KendraE]

Originally Posted by Dixies Mom

What further mistake would you be making if you took a pup from this litter? Did your male sire these as well? I guess I don't understand why you are asking for advice on accepting a 'free pup' when if this person is the BYB you say she is, she will just sell it anyway furthering the lining of her pockets at the expence of the breed.

No, absolutely not. He will be neutered soon. I have learned from my mistakes. I don't know why this decision is falling so heavily on me. I don't want to "support" backyard breeding, but I'm beginning to see that by taking the pup, at least I will end one line of breeding. We will spay her as soon as she is old enough. (again, only assuming there us a female) I never initially intended on breeding, it was a bad decision. However, we love Mac with all our hearts. I would trade not a thing in the world for him!

[Rhetts_mama]

You taking the dog is not the only way of ending the line of breeding. You could coax her to sell only on spay/neuter contracts.

You've also said that you wouldn't take a male, just a female. Well, those males can reproduce, too. Or, conversely, what if they are all female? You won't be able to stop her from letting those ones breed, either.

I know some will disagree with me here, but there really is no such thing as "rescuing" from a BYB. Whether you pay for the pup, get the pup in exchange for something or get the pup for free, you are in a way condoning the practices of that person. All that you are doing is freeing up a space for a new pup to fill.

[manolos mom]

Well we know your male carries this gene and so does her bitch. Dont know who she bred her bitch to but the pups could be gene carriers. I am so glad you are helping her. I too have made many mistakes. One being I bred Manolo who has MVD to my bitch and gave the pups away to my good friends. So I am speaking with experience. All of the pups and mom and dad have been neutered and spayed. But I still worry that one will become sick and it would be my fault. Just saying...This cycle needs to stop...

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

You taking the dog is not the only way of ending the line of breeding. You could coax her to sell only on spay/neuter contracts.

You've also said that you wouldn't take a male, just a female. Well, those males can reproduce, too. Or, conversely, what if they are all female? You won't be able to stop her from letting those ones breed, either.

I know some will disagree with me here, but there really is no such thing as "rescuing" from a BYB. Whether you pay for the pup, get the pup in exchange for something or get the pup for free, you are in a way condoning the practices of that person. All that you are doing is freeing up a space for a new pup to fill.

Exactly what I was thinking. I believe one of the hard facts that the OP needs to face, is just that, she is supporting yet again a breeder, with at least questionable breeding practices.

I truly don't understand why others say take the pup (if female), and keep or sell her.

Kendra, if you have the funds to care for a special needs pup, then you have the funds, and wherewithal to buy from a reputable breeder. So why even consider accepting a pup from this "breeder", who in your heart of hearts you know is a long ways from reputable?

Just as I have posted earlier, query you ownself. Here we will give you polar opinions with passion and belief in our own values/ethics that whatever experience or years we have are our true beliefs.

I think you need to perhaps write down to yourself your beliefs, your concerns, your ideals, and see what comes from that.