Lost our 2 pups....
 

Hi there,

We lost a couple pups this week. In searching for answers and things I came across this site.

Here is the story.

Have 2 yorkies. Gracie and Bolt. This is Gracies first litter and she had 2 pups. We lost the 1st pup because she had it in the garage and we did not know it. This was last Thursday evening. I let her outside before bedtime like we always do. She was not displaying any behavior that was odd. When I let her in she came in as usual. She noramally sleeps in our bed, but when I picked her up I noticed she was all when and had poop on her end, so I put her in her kennel since it was late.

Friday morning, my oldest son lets her out ans she runs into our room under our bed. He wakes us up and says Gracie has a rat in her mouth. We get her out and it is the 2nd pup. So we get her up and out and clean her kennel up and find no other pups. I went outside and looked around and then found one barely alive in the garage. We warmed it up slowly with moms body heat, but it only lasted another hour or so.

Since then Gracie has taken care of the remaining one. Took it to the vet and checked out and dew claws and tail docked. We have left mom and pup in the kennel all this time and have taken out Gracie to eat and drink and be outside. She has kept trying to take the pup out of the kennel and go hide. Lat night she was barking and my wige got up at 3:30 to let Gracie out. She did see the pup moving in the blanket inside the kennel. This morning, the pup was dead and we reallydo not have a clue why.

So my questions are for the next time.

The kennel we have is a 2 ft by 3 ft wired cage. Has a cover on 3 sides. Is this approriate?

The kennel had a flat sheet on the bottom and then a small fleece blanket. Is this ok?

Why would she keep taking the pup out and go hide with it?

I appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. We want Gracie to have another litter and that is rallyit. We know more of time frames and what to watch for, but the death this morning was rather odd.

Thanks for your help.

Ron & Cassie

Spay your girl! You are not ready for pups!

She was pregnant, obviously full term, came in wet with poop all over her and you put her in a kennel for the night????? Really? Think about that for a minute! Why were you not checking her well to see if the "wet" was due to puppy delivery?? Why would you have put a poor poopy dog away in a kennel at any time, let alone when delivery of puppies was at least imminent?? Poor dog! Poor puppies!

Ask yourself WHY you want pups. If you are thinking about $$$$, then pls just spay her. If you want to be a real breeder, then you need to go on a massive study program, find a breeder willing to mentor, have both sire and dam evaluated first by a vet with blood work and checks for genetic problems, and then by a seasoned breeder who can evaluate them for conformation too. Not just any two dogs should be bred. Most of all, if you want to be a breeder, you will have to change your attitude towards your dogs. They are not livestock!

This may seem curt, but these were probably very preventable puppy deaths!! Dog ownership is a serious responsbility and if you allow them to mate, then it is a GRAVE responsibility that cannot be taken lightly. I just keep thinking of that poor puppy alone in a garage, immediately after its birth. You can't wait till they are dead to ask questions!

:thumbup: I really feel sad for this little dog and her pups...this shouldn't have happened.

I have a suggestion... Go get a hammer and hit yourself in the head -- maybe that will jolt you into reality. This makes my stomach turn.

SPAY your girl immediately. This poor thing shouldnt have to go through this again. Learning to spell helps too.

Thanks for that. I guess I wll go somewhere else to get help versus a toungue lashing. This must be not a place to seek help or advice. Just one to get criticized.

It is not about the $. I don't want to be a breeder. I do have a few family members that want one.

Why put away wet and a little mess? Well......it was raining some......it is not the first time something was matted to the backside.....Already was planning on a bath in the morning. So speculate all you want....since you must know it all.

I am sure you were completely full of knowledge when you experienced this for the 1st time.

I appreciate your attempt at being a internet bully. I am sure you would not act so high and mighty if you were talking to me directly. I know they are not livestock, thanks for that assumption da.

We had been checking and watching. She was outside for less than 10 minutes and she did not display any behavior that was any different any other time. But you are the expert and have the 100% hind sight and could have prevented it.

I understand why the 1st death, but not the second. Which you had no comment on.

So my impression of a great place to share about yorkies has been turnd around by a person with a high and mighty opinion. Thanks for that! Flame on....because I expect it.

Wow...a bunch of high and mighty's here.

A bunch of people that must think we are the most uncaring people in the world.

How about you all just go back your bubble world that is perfect. I am sure you will be just fine. Little people with little minds you are.

geez. Way to represent yourselves.

I am so sorry that you lost your pups. If you decide you want to breed any more, I would really search the Breeder Talk forum. There are many wonderful breeders here that I am sure you would learn a lot from.

So my questions are for the next time.

Please for the love of God don't breed her again...as for all I would like to say about this whole situation (I mean putting a dog in a kennel that may have poop on it without cleaning the dog is beyond comprehension for me) much less all of the heartbreak of knowing puppies died because of your neglect...I have no words.

Really.......nice to meet you. Thanks for your help. I appreciate you taking the time to help. I am glad you have made a new member feel welcome and want to come back for more.

I guess that was too much to ask for.

This is more of what I was expecting. 1 person out of how many actually acted like the wanted to help.

That is like the pot calling the kettle black. Pretty smart and perfect are you?

Welcome to YT-if you stick around you will then realize that as a Yorkie loving community we strive to give nothing expect the best care to our pups. There is nothing appropriate about the care that you have given your female, her litter of puppies (that survived) or your questions in general. You need to spay this poor little girl and not attempt what you consider breeding again! Then after she is spayed I hope and pray that you give her to a home that will treat her properly. Yorkies are not meant to live in the manner that you described in your above post. :eek:

I have seen a lot of questions being asked on this forum and yours is by far one of the most disturbing that I have read. :thumbdown I would consider the lack of knowledge and care given to be among the worst that I have read on this forum and totally inexcusable. BYBer would be a kind label to what I just read!

A bunch of people with assumptions that know nothing about us or anything else. So brave you are on your keyboards. Because you are all examples of perfection that I should bow down to. I forgot I was talking with the utopia of perfect examples and I should know better to even think about asking a question.

It is funny how my posts are not even on here and they have to have mod approval. Way to let a person get flamed without having the ability to even reply. If I reply to a quote, it has to be approved first? Wow...talk about agendas. This must be a way to censor people.

I even get spelling lessons from someone that needs grammer lessons. How great is that!

This has been such a great place to meet new people and ask questions. You have made it such a warm place to be andwant to return......

I have a suggestion.....wait...that means I am stooping to your level!

Ron, I can't speak for everyone but I'd say the same thing right to your face plus a whole lot more. Please don't be so small minded that you wont heed the warning. No one here gives a damn about you - but we feel for the suffering animals in your care - no wonder your dog is hiding from you!!

Hey Ron
It's "GRAMMAR"

The questions that you are asking should have been done LONG BEFORE you posted about your breeding experience at the expense of your poor dog and the death of her puppies. If you think that this is an elitist attitude then you are entirely correct in your assumption! Your actions and lack of knowledge of breeding is inexcusable. I am hoping that your posts are just a way to rile us up on a Sunday morning and not truthful. But unfortunately I believe you to be for real is heartbreaking. :(

The fact is you lost pups due to your own inexperience and lack of attentiveness. No getting around that. It's too late for the dead pups, but spay your girl before you have another mess on your hands and lose her, which could have easily happened this time. These are lives we're talking about here...lives you are 100% responsible for.

Just so you know, I have lost pups before and it wasn't due to inexperience. Sometimes things happen but that is cold comfort when you are holding a dead puppy. One of the other posters here lost her girl just after giving birth and had to hand raise the entire litter. I can guarantee you we didn't find it 'odd'...we grieved for the loss and felt the sense of failure.

Sorry you feel like you're getting slammed, but your own posts about what happened is what is damning. Just go back and read them and think about it. What happened is not 'odd'...it's tragic and was easily preventable.

I beg to differ that any breeder is going to enable Ron and Cassie to breed another disaster. At least not on this forum.

I did not come on here with an agenda other than seeking help or to rile anyone up. I certainly did not expect to get tossed on a stake and flamed...or hit with a hammer......or to get spelling and punctuation lessons.

I care about my dogs and I am sorry if my first impression does not show that. Unfortunately there is nothing I can say that will change your minds because I am just crap on your shoes at this point. You are all perfect and have all the right answers that start with would have, should have, etc.

Small minded.......another example of a person with a keyboard. I really don't think you would say that and more to my face.

Below is the welcome statement.

We welcome you to our Yorkshire Terrier community!

Please feel free to browse around and read our message board! We welcome all Yorkshire Terrier and dog lovers! Please register so you can post on our forums, view pictures, and search our site. You can also share pictures of your Yorkie after you register!

We are a friendly bunch and we'd love to have you as a member! We also have a text-friendly archive you can browse.

I am not thinking you are so friendly!

Is this for real???

Let me get this straight. Just because it was late, you thought it was fine to lock your wet dog, covered in feces in her crate for the night????

That statement alone leads me to believe you have no business in having dogs let alone trying to raise puppies!

How would you like it if you were locked up in a room wet and miserable like that?

I have no sympathy for you.

He could definitely learn a lot from reading Breeder Talk. A good breeder would teach him things he did wrong, so he would not make the same mistake again! A good breeder in my opionion would not say you are a cruel dumba$$, go away!

I didnt say breeders here will enable him to continue what he is doing. So, if you are going to quote me, do it correctly. Don't read further and make up crap. I guess if I told Ron to take a hammer to his head, you would love that!

Many of you have an opportunity to educate and instead you are cruel.

lol. 107Barney. You are just so brave and bold behind that keyboard. Would you like my phone number so you can call me and really say what is on your mind? How about I just take my dogs to the shelter and get the needle myself. Would that help you out since you think we are the worst people in the world?

I came for help that is the truth. What I got is a bunch of perfectionists with a keyboard.

Posting in the breeder forum to gather knowledge regarding breeding should have been done long before you have dead puppies scattered around your home!

Personally I have Woogieman in the knowledgeable breeder category and agree with his post. FlDebra is a former breeder and I agree with her post as well. Even if this ourtagous thread had been posted in the Breeder Forum any reputable breeder would be taken back by the lack of care for this mother, her surviving and dead puppies. It's just shocking to me!

I doubt any breeder here would teach him a thing. I did not read anything into your post that wasn't already there. And you just confirmed it - you think this man can be taught to breed and I think the only hope for him is a hit in the head with a hammer. He left his dog in feces in the night while he slept in a clean place. I think he is UNEDUCABLE because he already missed the basics. I don't think he can read and learn anything because if he could, he'd already have done it.

Now if you want to quote me that's fine. If you've got an ax to grind with me, take it up in a PM or give me a call.

I am sorry! But I am so disgusted that someone could leave a bitch alone to whelp! Lost two pups through ignorance and then wants to know how to avoid it the next time, yet says he doesn't want to be a breeder but has a few family members that want one!!!
There are lots of dogs in shelters and rescues that need homes. I would suggest the family members look there for a pet.

Breeding dogs is difficult enough, breeding Yorkies is more difficult. Too many things that can go wrong which someone so ignorant and inexperienced would not know how to handle!
I have experience breeding Lhasa's, no way would I feel capable of breeding Yorkies.

As to why you lost the second pup, maybe Gracie was hiding it because she couldn't trust you to do the right thing. I would have had the vet do a necropsy to determine the cause of death.

The responsible thing to do now is to spay Gracie so it doesn't happen again. The irresponsible thing to do is to go ahead and let her have another litter!

As to your posts being moderated, every new members posts are moderated for a short while.

How is a little dog that is a little wet and has a small amount of feces on her butt (not covered as JMuedog has said it was, but you know this because you were here) any different than a dog that is kept in an outside kennel?

My god, there are more haters than helpers on here. No wonder the world is such a dark place with all the haters! If you very first reaction is to flame and hate...you need to really look at yourself. That is not the way to be. Spreading hate and shame. I doubt there is a postive side to you at all after the things you have said.

Are you planning on using that needle on yourself? :clapsmileProbably less painful than the hammer method. :fainted:

Thanks for your thoughts Beamers Mom.

I will add you the list of people who are haters first. This list is far longer than those who would rather help.

I think people with bigger minds would still answer the questions.... but they cannot get past the wet and poop part. I am sure none of you have ever had a dog give birth unexpectedly. I mean I have read several who have lost pups to not being there. Maybe I will go back and see if you all flamed them. It is very sad that my first ecperience with this place is one that has spewed nothing but hate and insults.