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FlDebra

10-10-2010 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimem2003 (Post 3295545)

wow! This person asked for advice and help from you guys and all yall did was be hatefull and disrespectful! Alot of what was wrote back to her was disgusting and this isn't a high school chat room. The fact is that the event already occured. ppl putting her down isn't going to change that and just because you tell her to spay her dog doesnt mean that she is so I would think the next best thing to do is hear her out and give the advice that you can so this doesn't happen again. I can understand that if what she wrote made you upset but theres a better way to express that then what yall have shown. she came here for advice not for a tongue lashing and if she didn't care then she wouldn't have bothered to write everyone asking for advice at all!! When I was 17 I was living on my own and saved a pregnent mini rat terrier from a bad situation. I knew around the time she was soppose to be due. I never had a expecting dog before I did all the research I could do, made her a whelping box and had a bed room all to her self. I left to go to the store to get groceries and I had a bad feeling in my gut and turned around to come back home. She had had two puppies one was not breathing and was starting to get cool. I suctioned her mouth and nose and tried to get some breath in her and it didn't work. the other survived and I was so upset and blamed my self for not being there or not knowing enough. I LOVED that dog and I loved her pup and it broke my heart !! now does that make me a bad person!! I makes me inexperienced, but not a bad person to where it would give a right for yall to say the horrible things you have to this person. Mistakes happened, yes I know that. and theres a way to get your point across than being plain out hatefull. I read her messages and a few ppl did give her advice that may help her for next time. the ones that were so upset with her didnt give any helpful advice at all! so what do you think your fussing is going to do? nothing. if this makes you upset then try to help her realize what next time she can watch out for so it wont happen agian. The way she was attacked makes me afraid to ask questions on here for the fear that I may to be in the line of fire. I would think she feels bad enough. I know I sure did. so can we all for the good of yorkies that we love help each other when the ppl need help the most or just tear them down so when they really do need some helpful advice they will be to afraid to ask for it?

Slimem -- I can't in good conscious give advice on how to breed better next time if I truly believe they should NOT be breeding their dog at all. That is why so many are not offering advice on breeding, whelping, etc. If we do, that is giving tacit approval to their breeding. Not something I want any part of. It is not the inexperience as much as the way certain things do not seem to be viewed as wrong. The lack of preparation even after being a 14 year yorkie owner, suggests less interest in becoming knowlegable than should be the case. Even at 17 yr old, you were concerned about leaving a pregnant dog alone and turned around, came back, and probably saved the life of the other pup and maybe the mom too. That is the sort of dedication and compassion one looks for in a post before considering offering breeding suggestions. I know the printed word does not always convey true emotion but I can usually see "heart" when and if it is there.

The only cceptble advice that anyone can give the OP is to spay the mom.

slimem2003

10-10-2010 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felicity1008 (Post 3295568)

Advice is wonderful. But answer the questions first then give it without being nasty. You have a better chance of someone listening to your advice if your words are kind. Like i yell at my kids and they do not listen, but when i explain my reasoning, kindly, first then i get a better response from them.

THANK YOU !! I'm glad that others on here feel as I do. I was reading all that was said to this person and It hurts my heart. My heart hurts for the little girl, for the pups and her the writer. Its a sad situation and the last thing they need is all this hatefullness. and you are right. you get more flys with honey..... This person also explained that they realized she was experienced enough. not like they thought they were. and nows shes asking for advice so they can become more experienced and learn what they can and become more knowledgable on bredding.. everyone is saying dont do it agian you dont know enough. thats not going to stop them from doing it agian. so help them become more experienced. dang! i mean in reality thats all anyone can really do !

BanditSocks2

10-10-2010 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimem2003 (Post 3295545)

While a lot of what was said could be hurtful, he was given constructive advice which he pretty much blatantly said he wouldn't follow. Also, he came on with the attitude as everyone on here as "bullys with keyboards" and people should should "say it to his face." Now a lot of what is said online can be misconstrued because you're not talking to the actual person, but constructive advice was given. There was some insults that didn't need to be a part of the thread but I could see how frustrating it would be when you are an expert breeder giving advice to someone who won't take it and then knowing there will be another preventable death. I understand that the OP would want some compassion but when you start hurling insults and refuse to take advice, compassion becomes hard to dole out except for anyone except the innocent puppies who suffered to death and any future puppies.

I know I would not be able to breed dogs because I don't have the knowledge base. For this reason, and for health reasons, I had my dogs spayed/neutered. This was the responsible and right decision for my dogs. If I had this tragedy happen, I for sure would not try to breed again. That is what is causing such upset and anger.

roncassie

10-10-2010 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 3295575)

Perhaps you all will be fortunate enough to receive some of the distasteful, rude, and threating PMs from this person like I have received. (Although I'm sure some of you have...I can't imagine I am the only lucky one.) I'm sure that would clear the air a bit as to why he is getting the types of responses that he is. I'll be glad to forward it to those of you interested in getting a better understanding of this person.

Nope...just you!

megansmomma

10-10-2010 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 3295575)

Got one too. So all I can say at this point is :wavey:Ron and Mrs. Ron. Too bad you can't take constructive advice and not become abusive.

BamaFan121s

10-10-2010 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felicity1008 (Post 3295568)

I can completely understand your stance and support of this person, given that you too have been criticized for your breeding decisions as well. Guess you can relate--always easier to sympathize with others when that is the case and you have walked a mile in their shoes.

megansmomma

10-10-2010 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295582)

Nope...just you!

What about what you just said to me~! :eek:

BamaFan121s

10-10-2010 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295582)

Nope...just you!

Then I'm flattered. And for the record, the amount of posts I've accumulated during my time here have never interfered with the amount of "action" I get at home. And although I've never personally tried it, I'm pretty sure that is not one of the intended uses for flour. ;)

Beamers Mom

10-10-2010 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kdgd14 (Post 3295566)

Oh my god! This just makes me sick. If you were going to "breed" her, or whatever you think is breeding, you should have done your research. I don't know much about breeding, but would have done heck of a lot more research than you have done. Seriously, leaving your dog in a crate when she was wet, you should have checked! Then for the excuse that it was raining outside, that is exactly what it is, an excuse!
And if you want to leave because you think all of us are rude and this isn't a way to treat a new member, then by all means, leave! We wouldn't have to treat you this way, if you wouldn't have done such a imature thing. It's like a person murdering someone, then saying that this person is such a great person. and you shouldn't be so rude. Well, you have done this to yourself.
Now, I am sincerely sorry for the loss of your pups. I know that you didn't WANT this to happen, but it did, and you can't go back and fix it. Like I said, I don't really know much about breeding so I can't really help you, but I'm sure somebody can.

From what I read the breeding was unintentional. A neighbor was looking after the dogs at the time while OP and wife were out of town.
I had a similar thing happen to me, when Bruce and I first came to the USA with our Lhasa's and Yorkies. We had to leave them in kennels while we found a house etc. I specifically asked the kennels to keep the male Lhasa away from one of the females as she was in heat.This was in June. We didn't get a house until August and couldn't move in until the end of August. The same day we moved in we had the phone turned on. We called the kennels to let them know that we would be picking up the dogs in a couple of days when the movers had finished delivering our things.
That night we got a call that Tee-Nah was having puppies! We immediately drove over to the kennels (over an hour away) to pick up the dogs. Tee-Nah had 5 puppies, one of them didn't live.
Obviously the kennels had not kept them apart like I requested.
(She wasn't spayed as we used to breed Lhasa's in England, and had planned on breeding here if we could find the right breeding lines).

Cares4Dogs

10-10-2010 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295272)

Thanks for your thoughts Beamers Mom.

I will add you the list of people who are haters first. This list is far longer than those who would rather help.

I think people with bigger minds would still answer the questions.... but they cannot get past the wet and poop part. I am sure none of you have ever had a dog give birth unexpectedly. I mean I have read several who have lost pups to not being there. Maybe I will go back and see if you all flamed them. It is very sad that my first ecperience with this place is one that has spewed nothing but hate and insults.

Wow...those who feel passion towards your bitch and lost puppies are haters?? What does that say about you as a dog owner?

There is more to breeding than just throwing 2 dogs together and thats it. You should have done your research. You should have been paying attention when the due date drew closer that your bitch was nesting. They nest so much that its very difficult to miss. A pregnant momma with a wet behind and feces is breeding grounds for infection. Thats sad that she had to deliver her pup in a cage with a matted poopy behind and all by herself. Your lucky you didnt lose your momma too.

Coming to a forum to ask questions you should have asked before you got to this point is unacceptable. Nobody is going to support NEGLECT and pat you on the back and say you did the best you could because you didnt.

Breeders who care about their yorkies do not let their yorkies out of their site when they are pre-whelp. Most people know their dogs behavior to know something is wrong or out of the ordinary. The fact that you didnt notice a thing leads everyone to believe that you dont even know your dog at all.

Now, please tell inquiring minds......why should anyone here be congratulating ignorance and neglect? Do your dog a favor...if you even care 1 ounce, have her spayed.

roncassie

10-10-2010 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 3295586)

What about what you just said to me~! :eek:

oh yes.....the one who was just as rude and crappy in the forum........then try to be helpful in a PM.

If I read this type of thread before I joined...I would not have because of just how many hateful and rude people there are compared to the ones that want to help.

To those who have been supportive and helpful, I do appreciate it. I am sorry if you are cast in a bad light now for that support.

If I did not truely care about any of this, I would never had asked to begin with.

slimem2003

10-10-2010 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlDebra (Post 3295578)

I have a lot of respect for what you just said. and I don't mean to come of as being hateful myself. I understand everyones concerns I really do and I thank you for writing back to me as nicely as you did bc I know when someone is passionate about something emotions can get high. I know that I should have done more in my situation and I'm just tring to put my self in their shoes and at that time in my life when my baby girls pup passed away and I was upset and heartbroken, and I'm just thinking that if that just happened and i was on YT asking for advice and these were some of the responces I got I would prob be sobbing right now. I did get my little girl spayed after that, as though this person might end up at the same conclusion. It could be that they are defensive maybe bc they are emotional right now and not thinking clearly or that they may feel as though they can learn alot from this expericnce. I don't know I am not them but like I said before my heart did go out to them bc of the whole situation. and I fully respect your view and how nicely you put it. I was expecting to get a backlashing my self for try to stand up for them but my felt like it was something I have to do and I hope that you can respect me for that to.

BamaFan121s

10-10-2010 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimem2003 (Post 3295601)

I know that I should have done more in my situation and I'm just tring to put my self in their shoes and at that time in my life when my baby girls pup passed away and I was upset and heartbroken, and I'm just thinking that if that just happened and i was on YT asking for advice and these were some of the responces I got I would prob be sobbing right now.

I am not aware of your situation, the circumstances, or responses you got when you joined. I am sorry for whatever it was and I hope that you and your dog/dogs? are OK now. :hug: (Again, don't know the details.)
However, please do not let anything that happened to YOU cloud your judgment of THIS situation. I am sure the circumstances were not the same and I doubt you were harassing people privately with crude, sexually suggestive comments.

furbutt

10-10-2010 12:27 PM

I think its about time this thread was removed or stopped

peanut

10-10-2010 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295409)

I never said or thought something couldn't happen. So you are assuming I had no clue, but you are not assuming that......

It is so easy to continue to point and blame after the fact. You are all great at that.

We will leave. I know you all will be happy. Have fun in your world of blame, hate, and assumptions. It must be better than the learn, grow and help place I thought I found.

Well apparently you didn't or you would have known she had a puppy.
This whole time all you can think about is everyone being hateful, you asked questions and I answered them.
1. I know that it was pretty cold in Mandan, ND that night, cause I looked it up. That poor puppy didn't stand a chance.
2. When she had the puppy in the garage, she should have been very wet, and you should have noticed, you noticed the poop.
3. After you realized what was going on, you should have watched more carefully or read the threads, since you said you had been on before then.
4. I don't care if you leave or not, I just hope you never breed her again, cause you don't know what you are doing, and you don't seem to want advice, even if you ask for it. If your that concerned about what happen to your girl, then get on line and research and study, instead of fighting with everyone on here, cause your not taking anyones advice, good or bad.

Cares4Dogs

10-10-2010 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 3295607)

harrassing people privately with crude and sexually suggestive comments???

Yikes!!!!!!!!

bellemarie

10-10-2010 12:33 PM

Ron, its all vey well complaining about everyone being hateful, but the fact is you own both the male and female involved and have stated that you knew she was pregnant and that she was due, so your pior research should have told you to be monitoring her Very closely (thats mentioned in most threads in the breeders section which if you were researching on this site i can only assume you read). the best advise that could be given has been given... Spay and Neuter.
there very well may have been genetic factors involved in the death of the 2nd pup and the fact that she willingly left the 1st pup and didnt frantically try to get back out to it suggests to me that she isnt an overly maternal dog (or that there was something wrong with that pup from birth and she knew it) so again, is another litter really in Her best intrests? would a sibling of hers not be a nice addition rather than subjecting her to another pregnancy and possible loss of pups?
if you insist on breeding her again, you must find out the actual reason for the death of both pups and address it accordingly.
remember you will have to wait at least a year before letting her have her next litter, so when shes due in heat again it is vital your male is kept away from her or is neutered. if this is not done and she gets pregnant next cycle then it will have been down to neglegence and not ignorance.

for the record, this is not a hateful reply- it is information, just like you asked for... i do not agree with your plans on future breeding at all and find it pretty rude that you didnt answer the questions asked by megansmomma or accept the advise given by countless other well known breeders who have given their opinions on this situation (and have been very helpful to me personally in past threads!) who are too many to mention)... if your not willing to work with the YTers then i very much see the general reasoning behind Not being helpful to you...
if you are going to leave, then simply YT then simply do so, without insulting the breeders and members here further.

bellemarie

10-10-2010 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs (Post 3295612)

harrassing people privately with crude and sexually suggestive comments???

Yikes!!!!!!!!

:eek: that Is out of line.

Kdgd14

10-10-2010 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bellemarie (Post 3295624)

:eek: that Is out of line.

Ditto. That should have never even crossed his mind.

slimem2003

10-10-2010 12:42 PM

Bamafan121a- This was my original post about my situation-

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimem2003 http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...s/viewpost.gif
wow! This person asked for advice and help from you guys and all yall did was be hatefull and disrespectful! Alot of what was wrote back to her was disgusting and this isn't a high school chat room. The fact is that the event already occured. ppl putting her down isn't going to change that and just because you tell her to spay her dog doesnt mean that she is so I would think the next best thing to do is hear her out and give the advice that you can so this doesn't happen again. I can understand that if what she wrote made you upset but theres a better way to express that then what yall have shown. she came here for advice not for a tongue lashing and if she didn't care then she wouldn't have bothered to write everyone asking for advice at all!! When I was 17 I was living on my own and saved a pregnent mini rat terrier from a bad situation. I knew around the time she was soppose to be due. I never had a expecting dog before I did all the research I could do, made her a whelping box and had a bed room all to her self. I left to go to the store to get groceries and I had a bad feeling in my gut and turned around to come back home. She had had two puppies one was not breathing and was starting to get cool. I suctioned her mouth and nose and tried to get some breath in her and it didn't work. the other survived and I was so upset and blamed my self for not being there or not knowing enough. I LOVED that dog and I loved her pup and it broke my heart !! now does that make me a bad person!! I makes me inexperienced, but not a bad person to where it would give a right for yall to say the horrible things you have to this person. Mistakes happened, yes I know that. and theres a way to get your point across than being plain out hatefull. I read her messages and a few ppl did give her advice that may help her for next time. the ones that were so upset with her didnt give any helpful advice at all! so what do you think your fussing is going to do? nothing. if this makes you upset then try to help her realize what next time she can watch out for so it wont happen agian. The way she was attacked makes me afraid to ask questions on here for the fear that I may to be in the line of fire. I would think she feels bad enough. I know I sure did. so can we all for the good of yorkies that we love help each other when the ppl need help the most or just tear them down so when they really do need some helpful advice they will be to afraid to ask for it?

This was the first dog that I ever had that was mine. I was inexperinced and in hind site I should have found someone to take her that knew more than I did and maybe the other pup would have survived. at that time I assumed that dogs give birth all the time and it couldnt be that hard. I keep her while she was pregnant knowing that I never have done this before out of selfishness bc I feel in love with her and was really lonely bc at the time my parent lived out of state and wanted a companion. I was young and very wrong about my views of puppy birth. My little girl is doing great as well as the puppy. well hes not a puppy anymore lol .. I gave them to a lady and her sister. they lived next door to each other. I go over often and vist. Giving them away was one of the worst days of my life but agian I was 17 and tring to live on my own and I was working 2 jobs and tring to go to school and I felt like I couldnt give them the life I wanted them to have. they live in bliss now! spoiled rotton!! I have two dogs now and we are doing very well and they play with Baby Wiggles ( the mom, yeah I know baby is in her name lol) and Chomper( the pup, he chewed everything) often.

BamaFan121s

10-10-2010 12:49 PM

slimem2003--I will have to go back and read your story. I am glad that everything is better now. I am sorry, I did not mean for you to have to bring all of that up again.l Seems like you went though a rough bought.

I just meant not to use your situation as a basis for how you feel this OP should be treated as I'm sure your situations were not the same. :)

Beamers Mom

10-10-2010 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimem2003 (Post 3295631)

Bamafan121a- This was my original post about my situation- This was the first dog that I ever had that was mine. I was inexperinced and in hind site I should have found someone to take her that knew more than I did and maybe the other pup would have survived. at that time I assumed that dogs give birth all the time and it couldnt be that hard. I keep her while she was pregnant knowing that I never have done this before out of selfishness bc I feel in love with her and was really lonely bc at the time my parent lived out of state and wanted a companion. I was young and very wrong about my views of puppy birth. My little girl is doing great as well as the puppy. well hes not a puppy anymore lol .. I gave them to a lady and her sister. they lived next door to each other. I go over often and vist. Giving them away was one of the worst days of my life but agian I was 17 and tring to live on my own and I was working 2 jobs and tring to go to school and I felt like I couldnt give them the life I wanted them to have. they live in bliss now! spoiled rotton!! I have two dogs now and we are doing very well and they play with Baby Wiggles ( the mom, yeah I know baby is in her name lol) and Chomper( the pup, he chewed everything) often.

if you had come on YT at that time, you would have been given kudos for rescuing that little one and the fact that you exhibited due diligence by getting a whelping box and doing all the necessary research. For a 17 year old you acted responsible, and are to be commended for it.:)

megansmomma

10-10-2010 12:50 PM

I Pmed you links to read hoping to open communication off your vile and upsetting thead about dead puppies. Your response was uncalled for, offensive and a violation of YT rules. Why you continue to post as a member of this Yorkie loving forum is beyond me :eek:
I have begun to suspect other motivations .....

Quote:

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295599)

peanut

10-10-2010 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beamers Mom (Post 3295650)

:thumbup:
I shows you did act responsible and no one would of said anything, but commended you.

roncassie

10-10-2010 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 3295651)

No other motivations. YT would not be my first place to start...get over yourself.

You pm'd me links after spewing your messages that were of no use just like the rest of them and then try to play nice.

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