Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3295265)

I doubt any breeder here would teach him a thing. I did not read anything into your post that wasn't already there. And you just confirmed it - you think this man can be taught to breed and I think the only hope for him is a hit in the head with a hammer. He left his dog in feces in the night while he slept in a clean place. I think he is UNEDUCABLE because he already missed the basics. I don't think he can read and learn anything because if he could, he'd already have done it.

Now if you want to quote me that's fine. If you've got an ax to grind with me, take it up in a PM or give me a call.

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295267)

How is a little dog that is a little wet and has a small amount of feces on her butt (not covered as JMuedog has said it was, but you know this because you were here) any different than a dog that is kept in an outside kennel?

My god, there are more haters than helpers on here. No wonder the world is such a dark place with all the haters! If you very first reaction is to flame and hate...you need to really look at yourself. That is not the way to be. Spreading hate and shame. I doubt there is a postive side to you at all after the things you have said.

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295272)

Thanks for your thoughts Beamers Mom.

I will add you the list of people who are haters first. This list is far longer than those who would rather help.

I think people with bigger minds would still answer the questions.... but they cannot get past the wet and poop part. I am sure none of you have ever had a dog give birth unexpectedly. I mean I have read several who have lost pups to not being there. Maybe I will go back and see if you all flamed them. It is very sad that my first ecperience with this place is one that has spewed nothing but hate and insults.

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295267)

How is a little dog that is a little wet and has a small amount of feces on her butt (not covered as JMuedog has said it was, but you know this because you were here) any different than a dog that is kept in an outside kennel?

My god, there are more haters than helpers on here. No wonder the world is such a dark place with all the haters! If you very first reaction is to flame and hate...you need to really look at yourself. That is not the way to be. Spreading hate and shame. I doubt there is a postive side to you at all after the things you have said.

Originally Posted by BaxtersMommy (Post 3295274)

HAHAHAHA an ax to grind. I confirmed it? Are you crazy?

Where did I say anything he did was OK? I think it is VERY sad. I told him to go to Breeder Talk where he will be able to READ what he did wrong. You certainly aren't telling him by telling him to take a hammer to his head! What good does that do?

What I have learned from YT is that so many people are clueless when it comes to breeding. They do not educate themselves first (which takes years) and then something like this happens. So, why not be the person who points out WHY you dont put a dog in a kennel out in the garage?

Sorry you feel the need to attack me when all I said he needed to read. A good breeder would tell him what he did wrong and convince him that his is something that never needs to happen again. Have you ever thought that this might just continue? You all have a way to explain WHY this was wrong so it doesnt happen again.

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 3295289)

Okay since I am a experienced breeder, I will tell you what you did wrong. You never ever leave a pregnant bitch alone for a minute when she is around 58 days until she whelps. I will not let mine go outside at all at this time. She is moving the pup around because she doesn't feel safe, when you have a bitch pregnant, you need to get them in a safe, quite area in a whelping box, they need to get used to it before they have pups. There is so much stuff you have to do before the whelping, Yorkies usually need help from their human.

As for breeding again, I agree SPAY your girl, its not fair for the pups that suffered because of your ignorance in trying to breed. I keep thinking about that poor pup laying in your garage cold, hungry and dieing.

If you wanted to breed you really should have a mentor and done your homework before you breed them.

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 3295289)

Okay since I am a experienced breeder, I will tell you what you did wrong. You never ever leave a pregnant bitch alone for a minute when she is around 58 days until she whelps. I will not let mine go outside at all at this time. She is moving the pup around because she doesn't feel safe, when you have a bitch pregnant, you need to get them in a safe, quite area in a whelping box, they need to get used to it before they have pups. There is so much stuff you have to do before the whelping, Yorkies usually need help from their human.

As for breeding again, I agree SPAY your girl, its not fair for the pups that suffered because of your ignorance in trying to breed. I keep thinking about that poor pup laying in your garage cold, hungry and dieing.

If you wanted to breed you really should have a mentor and done your homework before you breed them.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 3295241)

The questions that you are asking should have been done LONG BEFORE you posted about your breeding experience at the expense of your poor dog and the death of her puppies. If you think that this is an elitist attitude then you are entirely correct in your assumption! Your actions and lack of knowledge of breeding is inexcusable. I am hoping that your posts are just a way to rile us up on a Sunday morning and not truthful. But unfortunately I believe you to be for real is heartbreaking. :(

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 3295264)

Posting in the breeder forum to gather knowledge regarding breeding should have been done long before you have dead puppies scattered around your home!

Personally I have Woogieman in the knowledgeable breeder category and agree with his post. FlDebra is a former breeder and I agree with her post as well. Even if this ourtagous thread had been posted in the Breeder Forum any reputable breeder would be taken back by the lack of care for this mother, her surviving and dead puppies. It's just shocking to me!

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3295285)

You're right Dana.

Shame on me for not stepping up to the plate and taking on a responsibility to teach. I would if I could but I will hold firm that some people are not able to be educated and in my judgment and experience Ron is one of them.

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295293)

This is great stuff here! A bunch of perfectionists and haters. A bunch of people who do not have a clue about how much we love and care for our dogs. I guess having another yorkie for 14 years (that never had any pups) does not show this..but I never mentioned this so how would you know right?

The kennel was inside the house. The dog went outside and then in the dog door to the garage (because I am uncaring...I have a door to get out of the weather). I let the dog in and then I picked her up. The amount of poop matted on her butt was maybe 1/4 in long and her wetness did not warrant a full blown bath and freak out party at 11:30 at night. All this time her behavior was not anything out of the ordinary.

We asked the vet about her trying to hide the pup and he said this was normal and nothing to worry about. I am sure you will say this vet was wrong....I am expecting that based off the responses so far....after the fact. I am very thankful to the member who thinks she was hiding the pup because of our treatment.

See a bunch of would have's and should have's is all I am seeing on here. You act like you are all perfect and have never made a mistake you have learned from. You know the phrase about the muscle to smile are far less to use than it is to frown, yet you do nothing but hate and talk so negative.

I am sure I would learn more from this place, but sticking around here and being around those that are so negative and hateful is not very appealing.

Originally Posted by BanditSocks2 (Post 3295296)

:thumbup:



So many people on here have so much knowledge about breeding, so I imagine this to be almost a slap in the face. I can assure you nobody is trying to come off as a "perfectionist behind a keyboard" rather they are trying to share their wealth of knowledge they have, but it's falling on deaf ears. I understand you might feel bombarded and attacked, but you haven't once said you would do things differently the next time. If you were an expert on something and saw somebody doing the complete opposite and complaining about people telling him the correct way to do it, what would you think? Please take the posts for what they are... EXPERTs who have had years of experience with this.

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295306)

Of course I would do it different! My whole issue is how many people are acting like they have never made a mistake. How they would rather hate and be negative. How their first response is not a helpful one. Attack..attack..attack is the only thing that is on the mind.

Then to continue to insult and have negative opinions.

All I see is a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon and hating because that is the way to go. I am complaining that most all are hating and not helping. Of couse their way of helping is insulting and thinking that I cannot learn or read or have the ability to.

Thanks again for the warm welcomes and wonderful conversations. Makes me think I am at home......

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295306)

Of course I would do it different! My whole issue is how many people are acting like they have never made a mistake. How they would rather hate and be negative. How their first response is not a helpful one. Attack..attack..attack is the only thing that is on the mind.

Then to continue to insult and have negative opinions.

All I see is a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon and hating because that is the way to go. I am complaining that most all are hating and not helping. Of couse their way of helping is insulting and thinking that I cannot learn or read or have the ability to.

Thanks again for the warm welcomes and wonderful conversations. Makes me think I am at home......

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3295307)

This thread is a joke, right? Please, someone tell me that we are being punked.

If not, no one is insinuating that you don't have the ability to learn, just that if you had given a damn you would have learned about whelping before your bitch got pregnant in the first place. Nothing in your post suggest that you were even slightly prepared for the responsibility you were given. And because of it, innocent pups died and your bitch suffered.

Call me a hater, I don't care. At least I'm not guilty of animal abuse.

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295293)

This is great stuff here! A bunch of perfectionists and haters. A bunch of people who do not have a clue about how much we love and care for our dogs. I guess having another yorkie for 14 years (that never had any pups) does not show this..but I never mentioned this so how would you know right?

The kennel was inside the house. The dog went outside and then in the dog door to the garage (because I am uncaring...I have a door to get out of the weather). I let the dog in and then I picked her up. The amount of poop matted on her butt was maybe 1/4 in long and her wetness did not warrant a full blown bath and freak out party at 11:30 at night. All this time her behavior was not anything out of the ordinary.

We asked the vet about her trying to hide the pup and he said this was normal and nothing to worry about. I am sure you will say this vet was wrong....I am expecting that based off the responses so far....after the fact. I am very thankful to the member who thinks she was hiding the pup because of our treatment.

See a bunch of would have's and should have's is all I am seeing on here. You act like you are all perfect and have never made a mistake you have learned from. You know the phrase about the muscle to smile are far less to use than it is to frown, yet you do nothing but hate and talk so negative.

I am sure I would learn more from this place, but sticking around here and being around those that are so negative and hateful is not very appealing.

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295311)

Yet another who has assumed they know everything and has made a response without any thought. At least any thought with helping in mind. That wagon must be getting full now!

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295195)

Hi there,

We lost a couple pups this week. In searching for answers and things I came across this site.

Here is the story.

Have 2 yorkies. Gracie and Bolt. This is Gracies first litter and she had 2 pups. We lost the 1st pup because she had it in the garage and we did not know it. This was last Thursday evening. I let her outside before bedtime like we always do. She was not displaying any behavior that was odd. When I let her in she came in as usual. She noramally sleeps in our bed, but when I picked her up I noticed she was all when and had poop on her end, so I put her in her kennel since it was late.

Friday morning, my oldest son lets her out ans she runs into our room under our bed. He wakes us up and says Gracie has a rat in her mouth. We get her out and it is the 2nd pup. So we get her up and out and clean her kennel up and find no other pups. I went outside and looked around and then found one barely alive in the garage. We warmed it up slowly with moms body heat, but it only lasted another hour or so.

Since then Gracie has taken care of the remaining one. Took it to the vet and checked out and dew claws and tail docked. We have left mom and pup in the kennel all this time and have taken out Gracie to eat and drink and be outside. She has kept trying to take the pup out of the kennel and go hide. Lat night she was barking and my wige got up at 3:30 to let Gracie out. She did see the pup moving in the blanket inside the kennel. This morning, the pup was dead and we reallydo not have a clue why.

So my questions are for the next time.

The kennel we have is a 2 ft by 3 ft wired cage. Has a cover on 3 sides. Is this approriate? A whelping box should be placed in a part of the house that is quiet and away from other pets and children. I don't recommend a wire cage.

The kennel had a flat sheet on the bottom and then a small fleece blanket. Is this ok? Yes, sheets , blankets are fine.

Why would she keep taking the pup out and go hide with it? How old is your female? Was she old enough to breed?
She was hiding it because of any number of reasons:
She felt insecure with it
She didnt know what to do with it
Too much noise or traffic around the kennel
Not dark enough
etc etc.

I appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. We want Gracie to have another litter and that is rallyit. We know more of time frames and what to watch for, but the death this morning was rather odd.

Thanks for your help.

Ron & Cassie

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 3295309)

I answered your questions, I wasn't attacking you, but you refuse to see the problem. You admit that you made a mistake, but are you willing to do whats best for your girl. All you care about is "everyone" is attacking you. Did you sleep well last night, I am sure that poor pup didn't. Thats what some of us are trying to tell you. You don't need to breed.
I have some questions for you, how many days was she when she had them, what supplies did you have, and why did you put her in a crate?

Originally Posted by roncassie (Post 3295332)

I am sorry for not responding sooner. I was actually responding to a person in a PM that was being helpful.

she was around 60 days.

towels
hair dryer
scissors
heating pad
paper & pen

There crate was used because I have seen examples of this and so many different types of things to use. We had planned on using a large open tote for the whelping. The crate is her normal kennel.

Originally Posted by Beamers Mom (Post 3295321)

Actually compared to you, they do know everything.

How did you expect to be helped??? The pups are already born and dead through your neglect. So, how do you expect to be helped now? Want us to say "oh, no, poor pups, you did everything right, don't blame yourself" - That is not going to happen.
The members on here care more about the Yorkies than the owners feelings.
If the help you wanted is how to avoid it happening in the future, you have already been given that advice - SPAY!

The help and advice is not to your liking. That is just too tough! Sometimes truth is a bitter pill to swallow.

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 3295336)

Why the hair dryer? And you should know the day base on the first, second, tie.

Also , how long was she outside in the garage by herself before she came in?