Lost our 2 pups....

[roncassie]

Originally Posted by 107barney

You're right Dana.

Shame on me for not stepping up to the plate and taking on a responsibility to teach. I would if I could but I will hold firm that some people are not able to be educated and in my judgment and experience Ron is one of them.

Wow...because you know me so well!

How about I write up what I think of you based off my first experiences with you? I am sure it will be a flattering read!.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by roncassie

This is great stuff here! A bunch of perfectionists and haters. A bunch of people who do not have a clue about how much we love and care for our dogs. I guess having another yorkie for 14 years (that never had any pups) does not show this..but I never mentioned this so how would you know right?

The kennel was inside the house. The dog went outside and then in the dog door to the garage (because I am uncaring...I have a door to get out of the weather). I let the dog in and then I picked her up. The amount of poop matted on her butt was maybe 1/4 in long and her wetness did not warrant a full blown bath and freak out party at 11:30 at night. All this time her behavior was not anything out of the ordinary.

We asked the vet about her trying to hide the pup and he said this was normal and nothing to worry about. I am sure you will say this vet was wrong....I am expecting that based off the responses so far....after the fact. I am very thankful to the member who thinks she was hiding the pup because of our treatment.

See a bunch of would have's and should have's is all I am seeing on here. You act like you are all perfect and have never made a mistake you have learned from. You know the phrase about the muscle to smile are far less to use than it is to frown, yet you do nothing but hate and talk so negative.

I am sure I would learn more from this place, but sticking around here and being around those that are so negative and hateful is not very appealing.

If you can't accept that you killed two pups from not researching and being prepared, then there is nothing any of us can tell you. Coming on her after the fact the pups are dead is your deal. I told you the truth as what I think, as you asked, and then you act as if we are awful, I cant speak for the rest of poster, but for me as a breeder, I am sick at my stomach and shocked that you would breed again. Owning a yorkie and breeding are two different things. Most respected breeders I know stay up for days with the girls, and don't let them out of there sights. As for the poop, how long would it took you to clean her up, then you may have seen she had a pup, this says to me, you don't care. I have clean mine up at 1:00 in morning, cause it is easier to clean up then, then waiting hours.
If you really want to breed dogs, get something other than a yorkie. I seems to me you don't have the time, it takes to breed Yorkies.

[roncassie]

Originally Posted by BanditSocks2

So many people on here have so much knowledge about breeding, so I imagine this to be almost a slap in the face. I can assure you nobody is trying to come off as a "perfectionist behind a keyboard" rather they are trying to share their wealth of knowledge they have, but it's falling on deaf ears. I understand you might feel bombarded and attacked, but you haven't once said you would do things differently the next time. If you were an expert on something and saw somebody doing the complete opposite and complaining about people telling him the correct way to do it, what would you think? Please take the posts for what they are... EXPERTs who have had years of experience with this.

Of course I would do it different! My whole issue is how many people are acting like they have never made a mistake. How they would rather hate and be negative. How their first response is not a helpful one. Attack..attack..attack is the only thing that is on the mind.

Then to continue to insult and have negative opinions.

All I see is a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon and hating because that is the way to go. I am complaining that most all are hating and not helping. Of couse their way of helping is insulting and thinking that I cannot learn or read or have the ability to.

Thanks again for the warm welcomes and wonderful conversations. Makes me think I am at home......

[Rhetts_mama]

This thread is a joke, right? Please, someone tell me that we are being punked.

If not, no one is insinuating that you don't have the ability to learn, just that if you had given a damn you would have learned about whelping before your bitch got pregnant in the first place. Nothing in your post suggest that you were even slightly prepared for the responsibility you were given. And because of it, innocent pups died and your bitch suffered.

Call me a hater, I don't care. At least I'm not guilty of animal abuse.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by roncassie

Of course I would do it different! My whole issue is how many people are acting like they have never made a mistake. How they would rather hate and be negative. How their first response is not a helpful one. Attack..attack..attack is the only thing that is on the mind.

Then to continue to insult and have negative opinions.

All I see is a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon and hating because that is the way to go. I am complaining that most all are hating and not helping. Of couse their way of helping is insulting and thinking that I cannot learn or read or have the ability to.

Thanks again for the warm welcomes and wonderful conversations. Makes me think I am at home......

I answered your questions, I wasn't attacking you, but you refuse to see the problem. You admit that you made a mistake, but are you willing to do whats best for your girl. All you care about is "everyone" is attacking you. Did you sleep well last night, I am sure that poor pup didn't. Thats what some of us are trying to tell you. You don't need to breed.
I have some questions for you, how many days was she when she had them, what supplies did you have, and why did you put her in a crate?

[pawever Yorkie]

Originally Posted by roncassie

Of course I would do it different! My whole issue is how many people are acting like they have never made a mistake. How they would rather hate and be negative. How their first response is not a helpful one. Attack..attack..attack is the only thing that is on the mind.

Then to continue to insult and have negative opinions.

All I see is a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon and hating because that is the way to go. I am complaining that most all are hating and not helping. Of couse their way of helping is insulting and thinking that I cannot learn or read or have the ability to.

Thanks again for the warm welcomes and wonderful conversations. Makes me think I am at home......

No one hates you, we are just upset at the fact how unprepared you were... Because you were not prepared for your girl, you lost precious 2 lives... how tragic is that? You can't say losing 2 lives is a mistake...

[roncassie]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

This thread is a joke, right? Please, someone tell me that we are being punked.

If not, no one is insinuating that you don't have the ability to learn, just that if you had given a damn you would have learned about whelping before your bitch got pregnant in the first place. Nothing in your post suggest that you were even slightly prepared for the responsibility you were given. And because of it, innocent pups died and your bitch suffered.

Call me a hater, I don't care. At least I'm not guilty of animal abuse.

Yet another who has assumed they know everything and has made a response without any thought. At least any thought with helping in mind. That wagon must be getting full now!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by roncassie

This is great stuff here! A bunch of perfectionists and haters. A bunch of people who do not have a clue about how much we love and care for our dogs. I guess having another yorkie for 14 years (that never had any pups) does not show this..but I never mentioned this so how would you know right?

The kennel was inside the house. The dog went outside and then in the dog door to the garage (because I am uncaring...I have a door to get out of the weather). I let the dog in and then I picked her up. The amount of poop matted on her butt was maybe 1/4 in long and her wetness did not warrant a full blown bath and freak out party at 11:30 at night. All this time her behavior was not anything out of the ordinary.

We asked the vet about her trying to hide the pup and he said this was normal and nothing to worry about. I am sure you will say this vet was wrong....I am expecting that based off the responses so far....after the fact. I am very thankful to the member who thinks she was hiding the pup because of our treatment.

See a bunch of would have's and should have's is all I am seeing on here. You act like you are all perfect and have never made a mistake you have learned from. You know the phrase about the muscle to smile are far less to use than it is to frown, yet you do nothing but hate and talk so negative.

I am sure I would learn more from this place, but sticking around here and being around those that are so negative and hateful is not very appealing.

Ron not one of your responses indicates any sort of remorse or sadness in what has happened to your pup. You have expressed a great amount of ignorance on the subject and you set yourself up for the collective response that you got.

If you owned a yorkie for 14 years, did you not learn anything about them? I've had mine for 10 and I can tell you that there will never be a night one goes to bed with even a drop of feces on its butt. No matter if it is 11:30 PM or 3:00 AM. I have woken up many times in 10 years to clean feces off my dog who has IBD or to wipe vomit off her fur when she threw up. Not one would be in my garage or an outside kennel. In fact, they would not have access to a dog door because they might encounter something bigger than them in the night...like a coyote. My girl would never have been put in the position of an uninformed irresponsible breeding because she was spayed before her first heat for her health and for her best interests.

I do not judge those who choose to breed but I'd never do it myself and if I did, my garage, feces, and a wire kennel would certainly not be involved.

So if you think we are mean, it is because we are tired of people like you who want to be embraced for their neglect of their dogs. I will admit that my hammer statement was a little mean. In fact, I really don't think you should own a hammer now that I really think about it.

If you want to learn, take your dog as soon as your vet has an opening and have her spayed. Sell the wire crate and enroll in a responsible pet ownership class. There might be one at the local elementary school.

I'm sure you really love your dog...but owning a dog is more than loving it. You've neglected your dog and cost one a life. Do something about it beside cry that we are all meanies.

[peanut]

If you want the help you have asked for, then why don't you answer me?

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by roncassie

Yet another who has assumed they know everything and has made a response without any thought. At least any thought with helping in mind. That wagon must be getting full now!

Actually compared to you, they do know everything.

How did you expect to be helped??? The pups are already born and dead through your neglect. So, how do you expect to be helped now? Want us to say "oh, no, poor pups, you did everything right, don't blame yourself" - That is not going to happen.
The members on here care more about the Yorkies than the owners feelings.
If the help you wanted is how to avoid it happening in the future, you have already been given that advice - SPAY!

The help and advice is not to your liking. That is just too tough! Sometimes truth is a bitter pill to swallow.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by roncassie

Hi there,

We lost a couple pups this week. In searching for answers and things I came across this site.

Here is the story.

Have 2 yorkies. Gracie and Bolt. This is Gracies first litter and she had 2 pups. We lost the 1st pup because she had it in the garage and we did not know it. This was last Thursday evening. I let her outside before bedtime like we always do. She was not displaying any behavior that was odd. When I let her in she came in as usual. She noramally sleeps in our bed, but when I picked her up I noticed she was all when and had poop on her end, so I put her in her kennel since it was late.

Friday morning, my oldest son lets her out ans she runs into our room under our bed. He wakes us up and says Gracie has a rat in her mouth. We get her out and it is the 2nd pup. So we get her up and out and clean her kennel up and find no other pups. I went outside and looked around and then found one barely alive in the garage. We warmed it up slowly with moms body heat, but it only lasted another hour or so.

Since then Gracie has taken care of the remaining one. Took it to the vet and checked out and dew claws and tail docked. We have left mom and pup in the kennel all this time and have taken out Gracie to eat and drink and be outside. She has kept trying to take the pup out of the kennel and go hide. Lat night she was barking and my wige got up at 3:30 to let Gracie out. She did see the pup moving in the blanket inside the kennel. This morning, the pup was dead and we reallydo not have a clue why.

So my questions are for the next time.

The kennel we have is a 2 ft by 3 ft wired cage. Has a cover on 3 sides. Is this approriate? A whelping box should be placed in a part of the house that is quiet and away from other pets and children. I don't recommend a wire cage.

The kennel had a flat sheet on the bottom and then a small fleece blanket. Is this ok? Yes, sheets , blankets are fine.

Why would she keep taking the pup out and go hide with it? How old is your female? Was she old enough to breed?
She was hiding it because of any number of reasons:
She felt insecure with it
She didnt know what to do with it
Too much noise or traffic around the kennel
Not dark enough
etc etc.

I appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. We want Gracie to have another litter and that is rallyit. We know more of time frames and what to watch for, but the death this morning was rather odd.

Thanks for your help.

Ron & Cassie

I agree that before you breed again you should do some major research better yet leave it someone that knows what they are doing. Ignorance about breeding is not an excuse. The thought of that poor puppy laying out in the garage all night is just too heartbreaking, Just thinking about it brings tears to me. So sad.

[roncassie]

Originally Posted by peanut

I answered your questions, I wasn't attacking you, but you refuse to see the problem. You admit that you made a mistake, but are you willing to do whats best for your girl. All you care about is "everyone" is attacking you. Did you sleep well last night, I am sure that poor pup didn't. Thats what some of us are trying to tell you. You don't need to breed.
I have some questions for you, how many days was she when she had them, what supplies did you have, and why did you put her in a crate?

I am sorry for not responding sooner. I was actually responding to a person in a PM that was being helpful.

she was around 60 days.

towels
hair dryer
scissors
heating pad
paper & pen

There crate was used because I have seen examples of this and so many different types of things to use. We had planned on using a large open tote for the whelping. The crate is her normal kennel.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by roncassie

I am sorry for not responding sooner. I was actually responding to a person in a PM that was being helpful.

she was around 60 days.

towels
hair dryer
scissors
heating pad
paper & pen

There crate was used because I have seen examples of this and so many different types of things to use. We had planned on using a large open tote for the whelping. The crate is her normal kennel.

Why the hair dryer? And you should know the day base on the first, second, tie.

Also , how long was she outside in the garage by herself before she came in?

[roncassie]

Know everything about us and the situation.

I did not expect sympathy...really...

I do blame myself. Who wouldn't when something wrong happens? You always want learn to prevent it from happening again.

Just another example of assuming you have every detail. Did the thought of asking more questions to get more of the picture? Most likely not because hating and pointing a finger was the first thought.

Thanks for your input. Really similar to the rest of the folks you are with on the hate and blame bandwagon.

The help and learning wagon is pretty empty....

Originally Posted by Beamers Mom

Actually compared to you, they do know everything.

How did you expect to be helped??? The pups are already born and dead through your neglect. So, how do you expect to be helped now? Want us to say "oh, no, poor pups, you did everything right, don't blame yourself" - That is not going to happen.
The members on here care more about the Yorkies than the owners feelings.
If the help you wanted is how to avoid it happening in the future, you have already been given that advice - SPAY!

The help and advice is not to your liking. That is just too tough! Sometimes truth is a bitter pill to swallow.

[roncassie]

Originally Posted by peanut

Why the hair dryer? And you should know the day base on the first, second, tie.

Also , how long was she outside in the garage by herself before she came in?

Less than 10 minutes. She was already on our bed and was yipping like she always does when she wants down. She went direclty to the door so I could let her out. I let her out and she was yipping in the garage to be let in like she always does when she is ready to come in.

Hair Dryer...because it was a suggestion I read to help dry them off. On a low warm setting.

If you are trying to find a flaw in my preparation, then I am sure you will. I can find so many different examples of what one should have to prepare for. So to say oneway or another is right or wrong is not going to help.