debarking or bark "softening"

[Tae1107]

I have head that while it is an easy thing for the vet to do it is very painful for the dog.

MA (where I live) just passed a law making de-barking illegal .......so here is MA there would be no discussion about this...

Good Luck!

[chachi]

Originally Posted by jencar98

No offense intended and sorry to go OT but, I took it that MaDeDo's post only meant that it is nice to see a *controversial topic* be discussed on YT without disrespectful/rude posts. I am aware most of the threads/posts on YT are respectful, kind, thoughtful, informative and even fun but, when it comes to controversial topics things in the past have had a way of turning ugly.....it's refreshing to see this thread be different.

I would agree if she had not have said all but a few posts. Thats why I was surprised she wrote that because this thread had been going so well

[Roccosmommy]

Originally Posted by mommyofsophie

Britster, I always love your baby's undocked tail! Yes, I did know that a pet would cost money for medical, etc. I've had dogs since I was a child and have never had a barking problem like this on my hands. I live in Ann Arbor, MI, which is the hometown of the University of Michigan. The cost of living is quite high here due to the university. I checked into doggy daycare in 3 places (2 private and also at PetSmart... which would really have been a last resort!), but the price range was all around $700 per month for 5 days/week of doggy daycare. I did not anticipate that cost. As for choosing a breed carefully: I agree wholeheartedly! Sophie was a gift from my extended family chipped in on as a gift for completing my doctoral program. Do I love her, absolutely! Would I have chosen a Yorkie? Probably not. I could have said no to the gift, but I fell in love with her immediately. :-)

Again, I'm so sorry you have to be going through this. Can you bear one more suggestion? Since you live in a university city, what about finding a college student (or two or three) that would be able to pet sit during the day? They could always use extra money, and you could probably offer them an amount affordable to you. The extra perk for them is to have a quiet apartment during the day to study, while also making money just by puppy sitting your sweet little baby! Just a thought...

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by mommyofsophie

I actually get nauseated because I get so stressed out about it. :-( And I have this irrational fear that the snotty neighbor (who has been incredibly hateful about all of this) is going to leave poison on the ground for Sophie or something. I know, irrational, but I'm worried. Last night I was online reading about debarking risks/potential benefits and I came across a Sheltie rescue site that had photos of dogs that had been terrorized by neighbors for their barking. One dog had oven cleaner sprayed down his throat (causing massive internal damage and loss of his teeth). Another had its snout wrapped shut with barbed wire! Another had its throat slit (luckily it survived). I shouldn't have looked at that site! I've asked to move locations within my apt. complex and I'm looking into home rentals, but the barking will go with Sophie at this point.

i would be very scared and worried as well if i were you. i hope that the home rental is a possibility for you. i really think it can work out for you and sophie. sure, the barking will go with shopie and you to the new living place. but i just think that the source of all the stress for you comes from your neighbor complaining NOT sophie or her barking. even if you debarked shopie, will that make the worry about your neighbor doing something to sophie go away? i think you and sophie would both feel less stressed if you can move to a house.

at the very least, moving will give you more time to make a rational choice on whether or not you really want to debark sophie. i feel that with the stress and worry about your neighbors calling the police and complaining will make it hard to be completely rational and calm about making the best choice you can for you and sophie. i still want to say that this living arrangement is a temp./reversible situation for you and sophie, while debarking is not. you might feel sad to hear her new "voice" once she is debarked. i love milu's voice, and i am sure i would cry if i can never hear her true bark again.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

Ok now I consider myself a reputable breeder and I am against debarking at all costs. I feel that there are too many other options not attempted...trainer, collars, voice prompts, moving, finding an older person or stay at home doggy family to watch over her, or last resort rehoming. I have seen debarking that was done in the 80s and 90s while a vet tech and I am completely against it. I feel that it is outlawed in states because it is inhumane. But that is my opinion and I do feel for the OP as she is in a hard place. I hope she makes the right decision by her Sophie.

thank you for your input. i was shocked to hear how nonchalant the breeders were about de-barking a dog. i have a lot of respect for good breeders, but i really was not happy and shocked when i hear how easily de-barking a dog is considered, and hopefully i will get a reason as to why for them it's not considered inhumane to debark a dog.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

i would be very scared and worried as well if i were you. i hope that the home rental is a possibility for you. i really think it can work out for you and sophie. sure, the barking will go with shopie and you to the new living place. but i just think that the source of all the stress for you comes from your neighbor complaining NOT sophie or her barking. even if you debarked shopie, will that make the worry about your neighbor doing something to sophie go away? i think you and sophie would both feel less stressed if you can move to a house.

at the very least, moving will give you more time to make a rational choice on whether or not you really want to debark sophie. i feel that with the stress and worry about your neighbors calling the police and complaining will make it hard to be completely rational and calm about making the best choice you can for you and sophie. i still want to say that this living arrangement is a temp./reversible situation for you and sophie, while debarking is not. you might feel sad to hear her new "voice" once she is debarked. i love milu's voice, and i am sure i would cry if i can never hear her true bark again.

This is a great post .

I've read this whole thread. I really feel for you, mommyofsophie - it's clear you love your kiddo so much.

Surgery is radical and permanent, as I know you know. And before going down that road - you still have other options to exhaust. Things I'd try:

1) DAP collar or plug-in when gone (and, try the 6hr recording experiment again)
2) do keep her in smaller area, like you've tried (like kitchen or whatever) bc dogs can feel more secure when they have a smaller area to guard
3) Professional trainer who has testimonials in dealing w/ exactly your issue
4) Valium or similar from vet - in my opinion, I would absolutely try meds before surgery - and I'd try a *few*. Med aren't necessarily long-term either, they may just be a few months or whatever to help re-train her to learn how to be calm. You could use your recorder here again too, in order to track progress.
5) Move to rental home (this sounds like such a peaceful and wonderful solution for you both) - if you can find something within or close to your budget.

I haven't been in your situation, so I can't say "I've been there". However, I can't imagine de-barking my babies, for any reason. If I found myself in your situation someday, I would want to look for a rental home, a roommate etc. I hope everything works out .

[Mitzis Mom]

Originally Posted by Roccosmommy

Again, I'm so sorry you have to be going through this. Can you bear one more suggestion? Since you live in a university city, what about finding a college student (or two or three) that would be able to pet sit during the day? They could always use extra money, and you could probably offer them an amount affordable to you. The extra perk for them is to have a quiet apartment during the day to study, while also making money just by puppy sitting your sweet little baby! Just a thought...

[TwoforFun]

2) do keep her in smaller area, like you've tried (like kitchen or whatever) bc dogs can feel more secure when they have a smaller area to guard


In her case I don't think this will help. My dog went bananas and made a worse riot, for hours. I even think he had phobia of being enclosed. I know what she is going through and the best option will be to move to a corner apt if a house is out of the question. Most dogs quiet down after an hour or two but not my dog. I feel so bad you have to go through this since I know how stressful it is. Talk to the leasing office and see if they can tranfer you to a corner apt. Are they any townhomes, some of them are not cling wall to wall.

This might be an awful solution but I think it might be better than debarking. How about those things that cover their mouth. Don't remember the name of it. But it's normally put so they won't bite. One other thing, I used to sneak out of the house while she was entertain with a chew (I used the Himalayan one). It worked at times.

[MyBabyFynnlie]

I'm still against this. It's just wrong. I wouldn't do it if I had to. I would move.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by TwoforFun

2) do keep her in smaller area, like you've tried (like kitchen or whatever) bc dogs can feel more secure when they have a smaller area to guard


In her case I don't think this will help. My dog went bananas and made a worse riot, for hours. I even think he had phobia of being enclosed. I know what she is going through and the best option will be to move to a corner apt if a house is out of the question. Most dogs quiet down after an hour or two but not my dog. I feel so bad you have to go through this since I know how stressful it is. Talk to the leasing office and see if they can tranfer you to a corner apt. Are they any townhomes, some of them are not cling wall to wall.

This might be an awful solution but I think it might be better than debarking. How about those things that cover their mouth. Don't remember the name of it. But it's normally put so they won't bite. One other thing, I used to sneak out of the house while she was entertain with a chew (I used the Himalayan one). It worked at times.

Are you talking about a muzzle? They don't stop barking, though they do limit the amount a mouth can be opened (even the soft ones). And they should ONLY be used while a dog is being directly supervised. Dogs can over heat quickly with them on because they have difficulties panting while wearing them. Even the manufacturers recommend they not be used for more than 20 minutes at a time.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

i am REALLY surprised that reputable breeders are supportive in debarking dogs...it's not a choice between

1)de-barking sophie

2)rehome shopie

there are OTHER options,

one happy option i can think of is moving.

i don't understand why moving is so easily written off as being something that is impossible to do, and debarking the dog is a good option when moving is an option. then i guess you should never sell to anyone who lives in an apartment, because they won't move, they'll just debark dog instead.

i can *understand* the reason why a breeder might de-bark a dog if a barker gets a room/house full of dogs to bark non-stop. but i did not know show breeders would de-barked dogs prior to reading this thread. and even though i can hardly talk to my breeder everytime i call her because her dogs all start barking, now i have a lot more respect for her for not debarking the barky ones that get all dogs to start barking.

please educate me if i am misinformed. if debarking is not so bad, why is it outlawed in some states? and i would like information on the benefits of debarking, and the safety of debarking. thanks.

Where in my post did I say I supported de-barking. What I said was I wasn't an advocate of the procedure, or that I have done it. What I did say, if I had exhausted all possibilities and the alternative option was to rehome......Never say never. As, the rehoming option would never be one for me. My dogs will never leave home. Have you ever worked with a re-homed dog....I have, they have feelings. I've dealt with my mother's dog and taken me 3 years to deal her having lost mother and fell normal and comforted again.....be a happy dog as she once was.

I have never debarked, so I have not researched the safety or the benefits.


As, "Walk A Mile In My Shoes" and Never Say Never........

[Nancy1999]

I understand that you have tried many things, but when training, consistency is such an important part of the process. For example, why did stop using the citronella collar, did it not work at all? You are going for a reduction in barking not a complete elimination in barking. Since your dog stops barking when you're home, and the problem is when you aren't at home, I would think anxiety might be the issue, and you really need to address this because barking is just a symptom. I agree with the suggestions Wylie's Mom gives in post 156, and I think a trainer with experience in this area is an absolute must before considering such a permanent procedure.

[BanditSocks2]

Originally Posted by Roccosmommy

Again, I'm so sorry you have to be going through this. Can you bear one more suggestion? Since you live in a university city, what about finding a college student (or two or three) that would be able to pet sit during the day? They could always use extra money, and you could probably offer them an amount affordable to you. The extra perk for them is to have a quiet apartment during the day to study, while also making money just by puppy sitting your sweet little baby! Just a thought...

That's a really good idea!! I would have loved having that job in college. Since that would hopefully be a lot cheaper than daycare, maybe you can do daycare once a week (that's what I do--Nala goes once a week and Bandit goes once every few weeks).

Good luck with your decision!

[luvfaithhill]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Since your dog stops barking when you're home, and the problem is when you aren't at home, I would think anxiety might be the issue, and you really need to address this because barking is just a symptom.

She said Sophie barks when she is at home, too. She has to tell her repeatedly to stop.

[TwoforFun]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Are you talking about a muzzle? They don't stop barking, though they do limit the amount a mouth can be opened (even the soft ones). And they should ONLY be used while a dog is being directly supervised. Dogs can over heat quickly with them on because they have difficulties panting while wearing them. Even the manufacturers recommend they not be used for more than 20 minutes at a time.

Ok thanks, I don't know anything about those. Was just throwing it out.