Not All Vets Are Wrong

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by BonBon

And there are some members here who seem to think they are God by stating that so & so's dog wouldn't have died if they'd been online that day, then blame the dog's death on other members who were online trying to help. They also threaten others with the words: if you don't pass on what I've told you to say on my behalf, whatever happens to this dog "will be on your head." Those are not the words of a considerate, compassionate person just trying to help. I've had those words said to me more than once and I've never been able to reconcile them to the kind, helpful members they present themselves to be.

I agree whole-heartedly with the line above - "do it in a way that's constructive." Be kind, helpful, concise, informative and factual - never assume.

well kind people do not withhold information to help a dog and proclaim to be helping them

[Wylie's Mom]

Here is the ORIGINAL POST, so we can get back on topic :

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

I'm seeing so many threads lately from members who have questions and are seeking advice regarding medical & basic health issues regarding their dogs, which I think is fantastic. The amount of information I have personally learned since I've been a forum member is astonishing, although I take everything learned with a grain of salt.

I'm seeing members dishing out advice that flat out goes against what the dog's veterinarian recommends. Literally, I see people say "no your vet is wrong" or "your vet is not doing the right tests", etc. The vet may say to try a certain food, while someone else may say "no, chicken is no good".

Without actually seeing the dog's symptoms is it possible to really give a clear diagnosis online? I think that advice is priceless, but I also think that the folks asking questions may be getting confused by so many contradictions. I see so many new people come home from the vet, post their information and after seeing the replies they now say "gosh I'm so confused and don't know what to do". Shouldn't the vet's advice generally be followed?

While I think sharing information and stories is a huge asset to this forum, i'm not so sure that clinically diagnosing is. I've never had a major issue with a veterinarian in a negative way and perhaps I'm lucky. I really have a great relationship with my vet and do trust them. Maybe I would feel differently if I've had a horrific experience.

Thanks for letting me post.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by dwerten

well everyone is entitled to their opinion of the info I have given out and I always provide links so people can read about it and see if that is what is going on with their dog so they can try to figure out with info given provided and read up on it to consult with vet so if that is me thinking i am God then I am in good company i guess lol. I know I am the know it all, dr google, and whatever other names you all have for me helping pet owners with sick dogs but ya see I do not do it for anyone else other than the owner and that dog as I personally know how it feels and some of the people on this thread today do not so to sit back and judge those of us that do is sad to me. I do not expect you to understand unless you have been through it and I am sure all of us will at some point or another and those of us like myself will always try to be here to help you and not judge by this here today. It is just sad as people like jodi and the people i pulled up on that search are no longer helping - were they know it alls, dr googles too and did they just feel the frustration was not worth it anymore so there are less of us trying to help these newbies with their sick dogs. Just sad and never ever thought helping people would turn so ugly. Why? because someone does not write info the way you feel it should be written? who cares it is info to help someone and maybe they are at work and trying to jump in while on hold on the phone bc they care

I posted the examples to show everyone mistakes happen not that i was right or wrong. Honestly they are not my dogs and I am only responsible for my dogs but i care enough to share what I have learned to help others and maybe others should do the same and not be so worried about how it has to be worded a certain way to not sound like a know it all or not provide links from vet written websites and be called dr google.

See this is an example of what I mean, you seem to read something and don't understand what is being said, I never said that providing links was God like, yet this how you interpret what I said.

I said I'm upset when you say things like, "If people would have listened to me, so and so would still be alive", I just am very uncomfortable when you say things like this because this makes YOU sound God like.

Also, why do you say, I have called you names, when have I done this? I too google an illness, and read several sources, you have wonderful links on many things, I'm not criticizing you for helping or giving links.

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Here is the ORIGINAL POST, so we can get back on topic :

[Patti]

I for one am very, very happy and familiar with my vets. Having 4 dogs with many vet visits. I usually go to my vet and then post or have Connie post for me. I still like to get the feedback and support from my fellow YT members. Where I see YT fits in to my needs when I have a sick dog is to hear other peoples experiences with that particular illness, the treatments they were prescribed and the outcome. That doesn't mean I am going to go back and question my vet because she treated mine differently. Unless, I was getting no results or was concerned they had missed something. Then I would go back to my vet and see what she suggested. I was very confused on the aftercare of Pixie on her LP surgery. I had talked to the surgeon, read the instructions and was having a mental block about how much walking she should be doing. A very kind and experienced member here explained a lot and answered all my questions so I had a better understanding of what to do. Just now I posted in Sick and injured that Nikki started vomiting a lot after putting a glucosamine supplement on his food. I asked for any one who had had this happen. I planned on taking him to the vet if he continued to vomit. He hasn't vomited since I posted it so I will not be giving him that again just in case. If he throws up again, in he will go. So I think there is a need to get people's feedback but most people know that generally your vet is the best source of information. I just hate to see this thread get so heated.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

See this is an example of what I mean, you seem to read something and don't understand what is being said, I never said that providing links was God like, yet this how you interpret what I said.



Also, why do you say, I have called you names, when have I done this? I too google an illness, and read several sources, you have wonderful links on many things, I'm not criticizing you for helping or giving links.

no you have not called me names Nancy but others have and it is cool - just was trying to help is all so if being ridiculed is part of helping people I can handle it. I am not God, Vets are not God, no one on here is God - we are all just people who care about a sick dog and owner trying to gather some info to help that dog since they cannot talk and tell us what is wrong. How we all interpret that is up to us.

[Rhetts_mama]

Thank you AllDogsBoots for posting this.

One thing that frustrates me is when people are giving their diagnosis of a dogs problems based on the result of a lab result or single symptom. NO test is or diagnosis is done in a vacuum. A vet (or any doctor for that matter) is taking not only what that lab number is in to consideration, but looking at things that you may or may not even begin to think are important. They are looking at a much bigger picture than we could ever begin to describe here in our posts.

It's fine to come on to the internet looking for information. But when you start taking everything that's written out there as gospel, you have a problem. Telling someone that they should NEVER give their pet med 'A' because this yahoo group all had dogs that had a reaction to it is not science or good advice. Is there a comparable group out there that says we gave med 'A' and it worked out great for our pet? Probably not. That's because we tend to use the internet to vent about things that have gone wrong and to find others who have had similar experiences. It's rare to find a pro-med 'A' group out there because no one thinks to start one. Yet despite the number of bad reactions to it, the number of pets who have used it safely and with good benefits are just as likely to be far greater in number.

Do treatments have risks? Of course they do. Everything we do has risks. You could put your pup on a leash to go for a walk and the leash could break allowing the dog to run in to the street and get hit. We could spread salmonella to our families by preparing and feeding raw chicken to our pets. We could slip and fall in a piddle puddle and break our necks. Does that mean we shouldn't ever walk our dogs, feed a raw diet or even have a dog? Of course not. We balance the risks versus the benefits to our lives and our pets lives every single day and we make our choices based on what matters to us and what our risk tolerance is.

We've all got our biases (my personal one is that I don't trust pharmacists any further than I could throw them , but I won't go in to that right now). It's great to share experiences and find out what worked for someone else. A team approach is almost always better than a single input as long as each realizes they each have their part and none have all the answers. But personally, if I ever had anyone on that team who was telling me that all my other docs were too stupid to do things the right way, that would be the first person I would be walking away from.

Bottom line, whether it's your dog, your child or yourself, you need to have a doctor (or team of specialists) who's experience and judgment you feel comfortable in. It's your responsibility to find that person, even if it means switching 6 times until you do.
And if you still feel that your vet is too stupid, too influenced by the med companies or is just doing things because it's the flavor of the month, then why bother taking them at all? Better yet, why don't you get off the internet, go to veterinary school and become the kind of vet you think you need?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I am following along here and don't understand the Benadryl issue and why it keeps getting brought up.

Because, for some reason, Dwerten keeps harping about *me* giving out the wrong dosage on Benadryl. She says someone PMd her about it. For the life of me, I don't know why somoene did not PM *ME* so that the mistake could have been immediately corrected???? I would hate to think it was withheld just so that someone could later say how awful I am and how I gave bad advice??

Dwerten, how about you paste the link where I told someone to give the wrong dosage of Benadryl so that I can see if it can be removed and/or corrected. I certainly don't want anyone to see anything I posted that could harm their pupsters.

AGAIN, people are human and maybe I made an error. I don't know...but, I don't make a habit of giving out dosages of meds because I think it teeters on a dangerous territory...but IF I was perhaps out of my mind one day/night and did tell someone to overdose their pup, I really would like to fix that. Thank you so much.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Thank you AllDogsBoots for posting this.

One thing that frustrates me is when people are giving their diagnosis of a dogs problems based on the result of a lab result or single symptom. NO test is or diagnosis is done in a vacuum. A vet (or any doctor for that matter) is taking not only what that lab number is in to consideration, but looking at things that you may or may not even begin to think are important. They are looking at a much bigger picture than we could ever begin to describe here in our posts.

It's fine to come on to the internet looking for information. But when you start taking everything that's written out there as gospel, you have a problem. Telling someone that they should NEVER give their pet med 'A' because this yahoo group all had dogs that had a reaction to it is not science or good advice. Is there a comparable group out there that says we gave med 'A' and it worked out great for our pet? Probably not. That's because we tend to use the internet to vent about things that have gone wrong and to find others who have had similar experiences. It's rare to find a pro-med 'A' group out there because no one thinks to start one. Yet despite the number of bad reactions to it, the number of pets who have used it safely and with good benefits are just as likely to be far greater in number.

Do treatments have risks? Of course they do. Everything we do has risks. You could put your pup on a leash to go for a walk and the leash could break allowing the dog to run in to the street and get hit. We could spread salmonella to our families by preparing and feeding raw chicken to our pets. We could slip and fall in a piddle puddle and break our necks. Does that mean we shouldn't ever walk our dogs, feed a raw diet or even have a dog? Of course not. We balance the risks versus the benefits to our lives and our pets lives every single day and we make our choices based on what matters to us and what our risk tolerance is.

We've all got our biases (my personal one is that I don't trust pharmacists any further than I could throw them , but I won't go in to that right now). It's great to share experiences and find out what worked for someone else. A team approach is almost always better than a single input as long as each realizes they each have their part and none have all the answers. But personally, if I ever had anyone on that team who was telling me that all my other docs were too stupid to do things the right way, that would be the first person I would be walking away from.

Bottom line, whether it's your dog, your child or yourself, you need to have a doctor (or team of specialists) who's experience and judgment you feel comfortable in. It's your responsibility to find that person, even if it means switching 6 times until you do.
And if you still feel that your vet is too stupid, too influenced by the med companies or is just doing things because it's the flavor of the month, then why bother taking them at all? Better yet, why don't you get off the internet, go to veterinary school and become the kind of vet you think you need?

Again, I am in a HUGE hurry and cannot read and respond to all posts...this one just jumped out at me.

Excellent post!

[ldcox29]

What i've learned from reading forum posts is what questions I should be asking a vet. I have always thought, "the Dr. knows best," and just kept my mouth shut. Now I know I have to be an advocate for Ruby and the best advocate is knowledgeable, which is what I've gained from these posts -- lots of knowledge. I also try to incorporate some common sense. If something doesn't sit right with me, I move on or do more research.

Ruby had a terrible reaction to her vaccines. I thought I was going to lose her and I had just gotten her. After coming here I realized it was the lepto vaccine that did it to her. I recall telling the vet I felt he wanted to do too many shots, but he said,"No, she'll be fine." Well, she wasn't fine and had to spend the night in the hospital. This was a situation where I felt the vet knew better and I just agreed.
She ended up having to spend the night in the hospital. That vet even had the nerve to tell me that the vaccines the breeder gave her could have been watered down or just plain water, that's why she didn't have a reaction with the breeder.

Everytime I think about it I get soo mad. I felt I was treated that way because I didn't have the knowledge to ask the right questions or to speak to the vet with any confidence. Sorry If I have completely fallen off topic, I just wanted to share my story and the reasons why I think forum posts/opinions are invaluable. But I agree they can't be the ONLY advice you take. For me, it's a starting point.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Because, for some reason, Dwerten keeps harping about *me* giving out the wrong dosage on Benadryl. She says someone PMd her about it. For the life of me, I don't know why somoene did not PM *ME* so that the mistake could have been immediately corrected???? I would hate to think it was withheld just so that someone could later say how awful I am and how I gave bad advice??

Dwerten, how about you paste the link where I told someone to give the wrong dosage of Benadryl so that I can see if it can be removed and/or corrected. I certainly don't want anyone to see anything I posted that could harm their pupsters.

AGAIN, people are human and maybe I made an error. I don't know...but, I don't make a habit of giving out dosages of meds because I think it teeters on a dangerous territory...but IF I was perhaps out of my mind one day/night and did tell someone to overdose their pup, I really would like to fix that. Thank you so much.

sure here it is - I believe this is the thread someone pm me you gave information wrong about after you beat this person up for giving out a doseage on another med

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...ing-mg-ml.html

To be honest I do not know if you are wrong or not here but looks like crystal and kellie corrected your info. I personally do not rely on the internet for dosing my dogs so would not know if you were correct or not

and I know you make mistakes just like the rest of us including vets - we are human

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by dwerten

sure here it is - I believe this is the thread someone pm me you gave information wrong about after you beat this person up for giving out a doseage on another med

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...ing-mg-ml.html

To be honest I do not know if you are wrong or not here but looks like crystal and kellie corrected your info. I personally do not rely on the internet for dosing my dogs so would not know if you were correct or not

and I know you make mistakes just like the rest of us including vets - we are human

I see what happened, but she said how many mg needed to be given (which was correct). She never converted it to ml's so never gave the dose... She never said how many ml to give.

[shoefelmeyer]

I feel I am very fortunate to have excellent vets that care for my cats and now my 2 puppies.

One of the vets has been a neighbor and friend for many years. I trust her and the other vets thru this vet location. I also have another vet that has been caring for my yorkie since she was sick with kennel cough and all her bills were paid by where I bought her. Princess is fully over kennel cough and I thank this vet for their very thorough care they have provided for Princess and Ty. Now that Princess and Ty are both well, I will continue their vet care with both vets. If one is not able to see my dogs due to scheduling, I now have another vet that I trust 100%.

I understand some people here, don't have full trust in their vet and have had some bad experiences. But, I ask these people to please NOT bash those of us, that do have great vets and trust them 100% for the care of our pets.

I also have found when one of my bunnies needed care before my vet office was open, another vet that I can trust that will take great care.

The one vet I always take my cats and puppies for care, they have been so good to me. The neighbor that is one of the vets, has even come over to our home, to provide IV treatments, check on a kitty that was very ill with failing kidneys, in 2003. She even came to our home, when it was time to put this same kitty to sleep. I wanted this kitty to be in our home, without stress on him, as we put him to sleep in my arms. Since that time, I have rescued several kitties and have given all of them a much better life, filled with love, great vet care and spoil each of them.

I guess the point I am trying to share.... is please..... those that have had bad experiences, don't put down those of us, that have a great vet. And unless we are a vet, we really don't have the medical training to advise either.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Thank you AllDogsBoots for posting this.

One thing that frustrates me is when people are giving their diagnosis of a dogs problems based on the result of a lab result or single symptom. NO test is or diagnosis is done in a vacuum. A vet (or any doctor for that matter) is taking not only what that lab number is in to consideration, but looking at things that you may or may not even begin to think are important. They are looking at a much bigger picture than we could ever begin to describe here in our posts.

It's fine to come on to the internet looking for information. But when you start taking everything that's written out there as gospel, you have a problem. Telling someone that they should NEVER give their pet med 'A' because this yahoo group all had dogs that had a reaction to it is not science or good advice. Is there a comparable group out there that says we gave med 'A' and it worked out great for our pet? Probably not. That's because we tend to use the internet to vent about things that have gone wrong and to find others who have had similar experiences. It's rare to find a pro-med 'A' group out there because no one thinks to start one. Yet despite the number of bad reactions to it, the number of pets who have used it safely and with good benefits are just as likely to be far greater in number.

Do treatments have risks? Of course they do. Everything we do has risks. You could put your pup on a leash to go for a walk and the leash could break allowing the dog to run in to the street and get hit. We could spread salmonella to our families by preparing and feeding raw chicken to our pets. We could slip and fall in a piddle puddle and break our necks. Does that mean we shouldn't ever walk our dogs, feed a raw diet or even have a dog? Of course not. We balance the risks versus the benefits to our lives and our pets lives every single day and we make our choices based on what matters to us and what our risk tolerance is.

We've all got our biases (my personal one is that I don't trust pharmacists any further than I could throw them , but I won't go in to that right now). It's great to share experiences and find out what worked for someone else. A team approach is almost always better than a single input as long as each realizes they each have their part and none have all the answers. But personally, if I ever had anyone on that team who was telling me that all my other docs were too stupid to do things the right way, that would be the first person I would be walking away from.

Bottom line, whether it's your dog, your child or yourself, you need to have a doctor (or team of specialists) who's experience and judgment you feel comfortable in. It's your responsibility to find that person, even if it means switching 6 times until you do.
And if you still feel that your vet is too stupid, too influenced by the med companies or is just doing things because it's the flavor of the month, then why bother taking them at all? Better yet, why don't you get off the internet, go to veterinary school and become the kind of vet you think you need?

Thank you~thank you~thank you!!!!

You took the words right out of my mouth! It is just beyond me how the entire S & I forum has turned into a roadside vet clinic where bashing of an entire profession has become common place

There is a reason that there are a bunch of CAPITOL letters after a vets name~its because he earned it through schooling and education. It's fine to question you vet but when it comes to your dogs health you better make sure that you TRUST his knowledge. Your little one is counting on you to take care of him to the best of your ability.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by ldcox29

What i've learned from reading forum posts is what questions I should be asking a vet. I have always thought, "the Dr. knows best," and just kept my mouth shut. Now I know I have to be an advocate for Ruby and the best advocate is knowledgeable, which is what I've gained from these posts -- lots of knowledge. I also try to incorporate some common sense. If something doesn't sit right with me, I move on or do more research.

Ruby had a terrible reaction to her vaccines. I thought I was going to lose her and I had just gotten her. After coming here I realized it was the lepto vaccine that did it to her. I recall telling the vet I felt he wanted to do too many shots, but he said,"No, she'll be fine." Well, she wasn't fine and had to spend the night in the hospital. This was a situation where I felt the vet knew better and I just agreed.
She ended up having to spend the night in the hospital. That vet even had the nerve to tell me that the vaccines the breeder gave her could have been watered down or just plain water, that's why she didn't have a reaction with the breeder.

Everytime I think about it I get soo mad. I felt I was treated that way because I didn't have the knowledge to ask the right questions or to speak to the vet with any confidence. Sorry If I have completely fallen off topic, I just wanted to share my story and the reasons why I think forum posts/opinions are invaluable. But I agree they can't be the ONLY advice you take. For me, it's a starting point.

Thanks for sharing this and it was right on topic and know you are not alone as it has happened to alot of us who use to trust 100% the vet but once you know better you do better and you start trying to learn to be a better advocate to work as a team with your vet to keep your baby healthy.