Not All Vets Are Wrong

[chachi]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

If anyone in this thread is feeling offended, re-read my original post. The title says "Not All Vets are Wrong" and it is merely my opinion, which is by no means hypocritical of anyone in this thread. If anyone is offended this posting, then you should probably look at your own habits and why you are offended. I was simply saying that "not all vets are bad" and we should heed the advice of people in a forum with open ears, but not always with complete certainty.

I wasnt offended and I wasnt refering to you in my post. There has been an underlying sentiment on the forum for awhile now from a few that people shouldn't give medical advice. If they didn't there would be no need for a sick and injured section . Thats all my posts were refering to

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by chachi

I think we need to stop criticizing and realize people are taking their time to help people here and focus on the positive not the negative.

I agree. I have never seen the forum this divided and the # of long time members gone is incredible. If you don't want to help and all you want to do is nit pick then get out of the way so those that do help can[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY

If you have no advice and cannot help offer your prayers but do not create a bunch of drama around a sick dog situation criticizing others who are trying to help for your own personal gain. There is a sick dog in the middle - give your point of view and you can say you agree or disagree that is cool as we will not all agree all of the time on what we are seeing or what we feel and that is ok as sometimes the pet owner needs to see more than one side and make the decision for their pet on what they are comfortable with. I personally want to know all sides myself as i can learn from the opposing side but not when done with mean spirit. We are all here to learn and none of us knows everything

Some people like holistic, some like modern medicine, some like specialists and some like myself like all of the above and try to look at it from all angles.

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by chachi

I wasnt offended and I wasnt refering to you in my post. There has been an underlying sentiment on the forum for awhile now from a few that people shouldn't give medical advice. If they didn't there would be no need for a sick and injured section . Thats all my posts were refering to

Oh gosh, I wasn't really referring to anyone in general. I don't know much about an underlying sentiment going on here. And, I'll be the first to post in the sick/injured section if my vet wasn't available so that I can get some opinions (before I go to the vet).

I also consider myself a fairly average dog owner. I don't know about medical issues, diseases or symptoms, and I don't always know what food to give, etc. But with someone with my knowledge of dog health, I don't feel confident questioning, or better yet second-guessing my vet. Maybe someone with a vast knowledge of dog health information is comfortable doing that, but I personally couldn't really say "why didn't you give him xxx test". And if I did, I wouldn't understand the answer. I assume most of us fall in this category, but I could be dead wrong.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by chachi

I think we need to stop criticizing and realize people are taking their time to help people here and focus on the positive not the negative.

I agree. I have never seen the forum this divided and the # of long time members gone is incredible. If you don't want to help and all you want to do is nit pick then get out of the way so those that do help can[/QUOTE]


Amen !

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by chachi

I wasnt offended and I wasnt refering to you in my post. There has been an underlying sentiment on the forum for awhile now from a few that people shouldn't give medical advice. If they didn't there would be no need for a sick and injured section . Thats all my posts were refering to

I am not offended at all and so glad this was brought to light as tired of it myself there are some that believe vets are GOD some believe to educate and question and some in the middle. We can all learn from each other nothing wrong with that but do it in a way that is constructive

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by dwerten

I agree. I have never seen the forum this divided and the # of long time members gone is incredible. If you don't want to help and all you want to do is nit pick then get out of the way so those that do help can

EXACTLY

If you have no advice and cannot help offer your prayers but do not create a bunch of drama around a sick dog situation criticizing others who are trying to help for your own personal gain. There is a sick dog in the middle - give your point of view and you can say you agree or disagree that is cool as we will not all agree all of the time on what we are seeing or what we feel and that is ok as sometimes the pet owner needs to see more than one side and make the decision for their pet on what they are comfortable with. I personally want to know all sides myself as i can learn from the opposing side but not when done with mean spirit. We are all here to learn and none of us knows everything

Some people like holistic, some like modern medicine, some like specialists and some like myself like all of the above and try to look at it from all angles.[/QUOTE]


Yea That !

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by dwerten

Just how you feel strongly about dosing on meds I feel just as strongly that people need to question their vets if something does not seem right. How many times have we seen on here over and over and over the vet cannot figure out what is wrong with my dog as the blood work looks good but my dog keeps having diarhea and as soon as the antibiotic is done the dog has diarrhea and they are at a loss. More than I can count and we all know ibd runs in this breed and the dog is eating a chicken based diet. So should we say - oh bc your vet cannot figure it out just keep giving the dog the chicken diet and hopefully after running thousands of dollars in testing and sedating your dog and doing endoscopy to come up with the same diagnosis - up yes IBD and your dog cannot eat chicken diet - I think that is less invasive than giving doseages of medication when some of us have been down that road and spent thousands of dollars figuring it out.

No one is saying people shouldn't question their vets, I'm sorry you are getting that interpretation from the posts on this thread. I think you have been very helpful to people, but all advice must be offered tentatively, as in "it's possible," or "it may be this", or ask "your vet about this." Also, sometimes people offer links, and don't even understand what the link is saying and offer poor advice based on what they "think" the link means. This can be outright dangerous. When you have a problem with your dogs, you say you ask the vet lots of questions and like vets who welcome your questions. I think this is such great advice, and I wouldn't ever want a vet who didn't welcome my questions. I'm upset when you say things like, "If people would have listened to me, so and so would still be alive", I just am very uncomfortable when you say things like this because this makes YOU sound God like. While it's wonderful to help people, sometimes I think egos are too involved in the advice. Lets make sure we are helping for the right reasons. I do want to say, some of your advice is extremely helpful, but you are not privy to everything the vet has told the client, and visa versa, so criticizing the vet seems out of line.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

Oh gosh, I wasn't really referring to anyone in general. I don't know much about an underlying sentiment going on here. And, I'll be the first to post in the sick/injured section if my vet wasn't available so that I can get some opinions (before I go to the vet).

I also consider myself a fairly average dog owner. I don't know about medical issues, diseases or symptoms, and I don't always know what food to give, etc. But with someone with my knowledge of dog health, I don't feel confident questioning, or better yet second-guessing my vet. Maybe someone with a vast knowledge of dog health information is comfortable doing that, but I personally couldn't really say "why didn't you give him xxx test". And if I did, I wouldn't understand the answer. I assume most of us fall in this category, but I could be dead wrong.

trust me if your dog ever gets sick you will learn alot real fast. Many of us have been baptised by fire and why we come here to help people when it happens to them but if you keep criticizing these people for every word eventually they go away like Jodi did. Everyone kept saying her nutritionist is not AAFCO (?) approved etc - who cares seriously the AAHA vet jacked up my dog so guess what judge by what you see and I see her nutritionist helping dogs and healing them on here and others whose dogs are still jacked up so please stop being so closed minded to things that can work and do your homework and learn.

If you have not had a sick dog do not be so quick to judge those that do and deal with it daily like Jodi does. Sometimes people like her spend more time than most vets educating themselves about a certain disease and know more about it than the vet and why i like yahoogroups as those people are SHARP. They live the disease not just read about it.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

I realize this is one of those *hot* topics here. There are many here who have vets that they would trust with their life and then there are some us who have had some very bad experiences with vets, sadly some have lost pets at the hands of vets. I think the ones with the bad experiences will never have that peace of mind and trust again, how could we??......Therein lies the reason for the researching and asking for additional info, we just don't want to have to experience that again for ourselves or foranother.......

For me, I am sorry to say that I have lost faith in the profession….Not without saying, I will always go to a vet when a problem arises but I’m always cautious and I will do research when I feel the need. No vet knows it all, some are better than others, as in any profession. If the vet doesn’t have the desire, time or interest in keeping up on new research, treatments or testing then things will be misdiagnosed, mistreated, or over treated. And then there are some vets who will put his concern for profits above what’s in the best interest of the pet…….

There many ways to approach a problem that range from traditional medicine to holistic medicine and many other options in between. If the vet is approaching the health concern with only what was learned in school, which was more than likely decade’s age, or is approaching the problem by treating symptoms instead of getting to root of the problem then yes, I will look elsewhere for info. Ultimately I will be held responsible for the treatment chosen..…….This is just one of those topics that we all will never agree on.....

{Have you been reading my mind lately, what the heck? First yesterday, and now today ?}

This ^^^ is pretty much what I would like to say, if my brain was up to par.

As far as canine heatlh, healthcare, protocol, nutrition, and basic information - probably 20% of what I know has come from a Vet. The other 80% has come from elsewhere, most of that online.

I've been through 5 vets since moving to Phoenix and have finally found a competent place to go. Previous to that, Wylie was misdiagnosed for...oh...6 months plus? I kept taking him in w/ symptoms and *knew* something was wrong, Vet kept saying "Nope, ALL looks normal" . I finally went to a specialist - he was finally diagnosed with Atypical Cushings, Hypothyroid, and pyoderma. Marcel has also been misdiagnosed by a different Vet.

I think it takes a very unique person with a combination of skills and values to make a *good* Veterinarian. It's a very tough career, and there are so many reasons why. I think it is an industry in which consumers have very little recourse, if any, so that makes the consumer and its patients automatically vulnerable, in my opinion. The health of the patient is absolutely not always first for some vets, that's why it's so imperative to try to choose wisely.

In my humble opinion, the onus of pet health care is shared by the owner. I feel I have to research for my pets' health wayyyyy more than I need to for my own health, or that of my family members. My degree is in Nursing, and I've worked with tons of docs, nurses, techs etc - and I feel much more confident and easy about entrusting my healthcare to my Doctors than I do my pets' healthcare to Vets. That said, Doctors and other med-pros make unthinkable mistakes every day. Human error is unavoidable.

The actual diagnosis should come from a competent Vet. It cannot be done on the internet. A patient must be seen and evaluated. The information, however, surrounding the symptoms is really where the owner can be invaluable to their pet by using the internet and other sources as tools. Forums and groups can (and have) save lives, and HELP sift through symptoms and identify possibilities of what might be going on.

Sharing experiences during a crisis or illness can't be measured, and that's where I think forums are also valuable. But the internet should never, ever be relied upon as a diagnosis - it's a place to gather information, share ideas, learn, improve your dialogue with your vet, and in the end - help you provide your pet with the BEST dang healthcare they can obtain.

As far as dosages, people need to be very careful. That said, in a true emergency where there appears to be no other available options and there is some way to help online - I would help in any way I could. I also think it is okay to share basic First Aid information and some dosages there, because that also can save a life - especially during a situation of poison, stings, etcetera.

Wow, this was really verbose...apologies.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

If anyone in this thread is feeling offended, re-read my original post. The title says "Not All Vets are Wrong" and it is merely my opinion, which is by no means hypocritical of anyone in this thread. If anyone is offended this posting, then you should probably look at your own habits and why you are offended. I was simply saying that "not all vets are bad" and we should heed the advice of people in a forum with open ears, but not always with complete certainty.

I think there are many things thatt go on that clients aren't even aware of. They have no idea how much the vet cares and how they want to be able to do everything for free. But they have lives too and families to feed. They don't know everything (far from it) and should be more than willing to answer questions, look at research that a client brings in, refer out, etc. If they aren't, then find a new one. I hate to see that people think they are money hungry monsters who want to run every test in the book or they are totally clueless. Tons of possible diagnoses run through their heads, but they have to rule out what they think is most likely first (or sometimes just wait it out) because not every client is willing to hand over thousands in the beginning. They will make mistakes. They're human. But they are also very smart individuals who had more schooling (and at a very difficult leverl) than most could even imagine.

Obviously I think we should give people suggestions. I think my post count speaks for that. But sometimes there are reasons why a vet doesn't want to go a certain way with something and IMO some respect is deserved. Maybe they know something that we don't.

There have been quite a few times when I read something online and talk to Ellie's vet about it. While it's not necessarily always bad info, sometimes it just isn't quite right. And she will explain why it may not be right if I ask her to.

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

Oh gosh, I wasn't really referring to anyone in general. I don't know much about an underlying sentiment going on here. And, I'll be the first to post in the sick/injured section if my vet wasn't available so that I can get some opinions (before I go to the vet).

I also consider myself a fairly average dog owner. I don't know about medical issues, diseases or symptoms, and I don't always know what food to give, etc. But with someone with my knowledge of dog health, I don't feel confident questioning, or better yet second-guessing my vet. Maybe someone with a vast knowledge of dog health information is comfortable doing that, but I personally couldn't really say "why didn't you give him xxx test". And if I did, I wouldn't understand the answer. I assume most of us fall in this category, but I could be dead wrong.

Originally Posted by dwerten

trust me if your dog ever gets sick you will learn alot real fast. Many of us have been baptised by fire and why we come here to help people when it happens to them but if you keep criticizing these people for every word eventually they go away like Jodi did. Everyone kept saying her nutritionist is not AAFCO (?) approved etc - who cares seriously the AAHA vet jacked up my dog so guess what judge by what you see and I see her nutritionist helping dogs and healing them on here and others whose dogs are still jacked up so please stop being so closed minded to things that can work and do your homework and learn.

If you have not had a sick dog do not be so quick to judge those that do and deal with it daily like Jodi does. Sometimes people like her spend more time than most vets educating themselves about a certain disease and know more about it than the vet and why i like yahoogroups as those people are SHARP. They live the disease not just read about it.

I really hope this was not directed towards me. I have and would never criticize someone for what they say, nor am I closed minded at all! And judge people who have sick dogs? I offer any compassion that I can.

Again, the thread is about bringing this learned forum information to your vet and people's opinions on the subject. I feel like you are bashing me, and I'm only giving my opinions.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by dwerten

I am not offended at all and so glad this was brought to light as tired of it myself there are some that believe vets are GOD some believe to educate and question and some in the middle. We can all learn from each other nothing wrong with that but do it in a way that is constructive

And there are some members here who seem to think they are God by stating that so & so's dog wouldn't have died if they'd been online that day, then blame the dog's death on other members who were online trying to help. They also threaten others with the words: if you don't pass on what I've told you to say on my behalf, whatever happens to this dog "will be on your head." Those are not the words of a considerate, compassionate person just trying to help. I've had those words said to me more than once and I've never been able to reconcile them to the kind, helpful members they present themselves to be.

I agree whole-heartedly with the line above - "do it in a way that's constructive." Be kind, helpful, concise, informative and factual - never assume.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

No one is saying people shouldn't question their vets, I'm sorry you are getting that interpretation from the posts on this thread. I think you have been very helpful to people, but all advice must be offered tentatively, as in "it's possible," or "it may be this", or ask "your vet about this." Also, sometimes people offer links, and don't even understand what the link is saying and offer poor advice based on what they "think" the link means. This can be outright dangerous. When you have a problem with your dogs, you say you ask the vet lots of questions and like vets who welcome your questions. I think this is such great advice, and I wouldn't ever want a vet who didn't welcome my questions. I'm upset when you say things like, "If people would have listened to me, so and so would still be alive", I just am very uncomfortable when you say things like this because this makes YOU sound God like. While it's wonderful to help people, sometimes I think egos are too involved in the advice. Lets make sure we are helping for the right reasons. I do want to say, some of your advice is extremely helpful, but you are not privy to everything the vet has told the client, and visa versa, so criticizing the vet seems out of line.

well everyone is entitled to their opinion of the info I have given out and I always provide links so people can read about it and see if that is what is going on with their dog so they can try to figure out with info given provided and read up on it to consult with vet so if that is me thinking i am God then I am in good company i guess lol. I know I am the know it all, dr google, and whatever other names you all have for me helping pet owners with sick dogs but ya see I do not do it for anyone else other than the owner and that dog as I personally know how it feels and some of the people on this thread today do not so to sit back and judge those of us that do is sad to me. I do not expect you to understand unless you have been through it and I am sure all of us will at some point or another and those of us like myself will always try to be here to help you and not judge by this here today. It is just sad as people like jodi and the people i pulled up on that search are no longer helping - were they know it alls, dr googles too and did they just feel the frustration was not worth it anymore so there are less of us trying to help these newbies with their sick dogs. Just sad and never ever thought helping people would turn so ugly. Why? because someone does not write info the way you feel it should be written? who cares it is info to help someone and maybe they are at work and trying to jump in while on hold on the phone bc they care

I posted the examples to show everyone mistakes happen not that i was right or wrong. Honestly they are not my dogs and I am only responsible for my dogs but i care enough to share what I have learned to help others and maybe others should do the same and not be so worried about how it has to be worded a certain way to not sound like a know it all or not provide links from vet written websites and be called dr google.

[Jilleen]

Well...... so much for the thread from Wylies' mom today on everyone showing compassion....

Pretty soon no one will want to start a thread because most seems to get blown way out of portion..

To me all the OP was saying was taking advise from here is okay, but should be discussed with the vet before acting on it.

IMO

[Wylie's Mom]

So anyways...we were having a great discussion on Vets?