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-   -   Defamation, dishonesty and untruths (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/206262-defamation-dishonesty-untruths.html)

capt_noonie 06-14-2010 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppylove11 (Post 3162958)
I have to state I am disgusted by the video of the poor boy! How could anyone stand there and give a play by play of his seizure and not hold and comfort him? I could never do that to one of my kids even if I was mad at their breeder! All creators big and small God made them all and as far as I am concerned they all deserve to be loved! Shame on both of you in my opinion.
That's what I was thinking. I couldn't watch more than a few seconds, and I saw the total length of the vid was well over 4 mins! No way I was going to watch that. :thumbdown

I also have opinions on long time members who are breeders with a ridiculously low post count.

Breezeaway 06-14-2010 04:32 PM
Most defiantly sounds familiar.

BaxtersMommy 06-14-2010 04:40 PM
This is very sad. The video was heartbreaking.

DvlshAngel985 06-14-2010 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppylove11 (Post 3162958)
I have to state I am disgusted by the video of the poor boy! How could anyone stand there and give a play by play of his seizure and not hold and comfort him? I could never do that to one of my kids even if I was mad at their breeder! All creators big and small God made them all and as far as I am concerned they all deserve to be loved! Shame on both of you in my opinion.
I only have experience with a seizing human (my dad has epilepsy) but I would assume much of how a human is cared for when seizing can a apply to a dog. You're not suppose to pick them up, move them, or do anything that might jeopardize anyone, or anything that is having a seizure. If you pick up a seizing dog, it will not bring him/her out of it. You should keep it from hurting itself, but "comforting" them isn't going to change the fact that they're seizing. If anything, you put it in harms way because they have no control of their bodily functions and could very easily fall out of your hands. The best thing to do in these cases is put them in a safe place, time it, and clean them up once they come out of it. If I had a epileptic dog, I would document it also. Not so I could post it on the interwebs, but so I could show my vet and show the breeder.

manolos mom 06-14-2010 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3163043)
I only have experience with a seizing human (my dad has epilepsy) but I would assume much of how a human is cared for when seizing can a apply to a dog. You're not suppose to pick them up, move them, or do anything that might jeopardize anyone, or anything that is having a seizure. If you pick up a seizing dog, it will not bring him/her out of it. You should keep it from hurting itself, but "comforting" them isn't going to change the fact that they're seizing. If anything, you put it in harms way because they have no control of their bodily functions and could very easily fall out of your hands. The best thing to do in these cases is put them in a safe place, time it, and clean them up once they come out of it. If I had a epileptic dog, I would document it also. Not so I could post it on the interwebs, but so I could show my vet and show the breeder.
I know it looks cruel but you are right! You must not move them just make sure they are safe. When Manolo had a Seizure I am sure he did not know where he was until he woke up 1 min later.

yorkiegirl2 06-14-2010 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3163043)
I only have experience with a seizing human (my dad has epilepsy) but I would assume much of how a human is cared for when seizing can a apply to a dog. You're not suppose to pick them up, move them, or do anything that might jeopardize anyone, or anything that is having a seizure. If you pick up a seizing dog, it will not bring him/her out of it. You should keep it from hurting itself, but "comforting" them isn't going to change the fact that they're seizing. If anything, you put it in harms way because they have no control of their bodily functions and could very easily fall out of your hands. The best thing to do in these cases is put them in a safe place, time it, and clean them up once they come out of it. If I had a epileptic dog, I would document it also. Not so I could post it on the interwebs, but so I could show my vet and show the breeder.
As much as you would like to comfort them as you have said they need to be in a control place as to not hurt themself.

I would not have posted the video but the OP claims there was nothing wrong with the dog.

Like I said I have long since moved on.
The OP is the one who keeps wanting to stir things up.
Those posts were not longer visable until she posted them again.

She have been stalking and following me all over the net looking for any
peice of info to twist around.

DvlshAngel985 06-14-2010 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3163069)
As much as you would like to comfort them as you have said they need to be in a control place as to not hurt themself.

I would not have posted the video but the OP claims there was nothing wrong with the dog.

Like I said I have long since moved on.
The OP is the one who keeps wanting to stir things up.
Those posts were not longer visable until she posted them again.

She have been stalking and following me all over the net looking for any
peice of info to twist around.
I'm glad the pup is better. My dad is controlled by meds too. I posted because not everyone knows that this type of distress can't be stopped. You have to wait it out. If anything, see this thread as informative for those who didn't know what not to do when a dog is seizing. I know it sounds mean but it's the best thing you could do.

JeanieK 06-14-2010 05:24 PM
Were there other puppies in that litter? Did any of them show any signs of seizures? Were those two dogs mate at any other time? did any of those litters contain puppies that had seizures?

I think it is unfair to blame the breeder for something that has not been proven. I believe that is the issue here. The breeder was called a bad breeder but no one can say that the seizures were due to in-breeding.

It could have been the food, or it could have been caused by head trauma. If there has never been any other dogs in that line with seizures, it seems unlikely that the seizures were caused by faujlty breeding.

Close line breeding is not uncommon with experienced breeders, that know the lines and feel comfortable that there are no hereditary issues in the line.

BamaFan121s 06-14-2010 05:35 PM
Given the fact that there have been several people quick to jump in with strong opinions in defense of the breeder and comments about how 'familiar' this situation seems, one can only assume that there is more to the story than what is being told.

Regardless, I hope that this poor little one is living the good life in his new pet home. :)

puppylove11 06-14-2010 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3163069)
As much as you would like to comfort them as you have said they need to be in a control place as to not hurt themself.

I would not have posted the video but the OP claims there was nothing wrong with the dog.

Like I said I have long since moved on.
The OP is the one who keeps wanting to stir things up.
Those posts were not longer visable until she posted them again.

She have been stalking and following me all over the net looking for any
peice of info to twist around.
One of our rescues had seizures and our vet recommended I get on the floor and hold her while she was going through it. I would do this every time she had a seizure and it did make a difference! I am still greatly disgusted by someone who should love their animals would post such a video.

jackson25 06-14-2010 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 3162905)
I think the first pedigree posted is of the dog Scooter, the other pedigrees are of yorkiegirl2's other dogs who all have the same line that Scooter has through Champagne Wishes Bam Bam. You'd think if someone felt a line had hereditary problems, that you'd probably want to steer clear of those lines?
One would like to think that is the obvious choice.

capt_noonie 06-14-2010 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3163092)
I'm glad the pup is better. My dad is controlled by meds too. I posted because not everyone knows that this type of distress can't be stopped. You have to wait it out. If anything, see this thread as informative for those who didn't know what not to do when a dog is seizing. I know it sounds mean but it's the best thing you could do.
You're right. I did'nt know that, and I was horrified watching that vid.

DvlshAngel985 06-14-2010 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppylove11 (Post 3163161)
One of our rescues had seizures and our vet recommended I get on the floor and hold her while she was going through it. I would do this every time she had a seizure and it did make a difference! I am still greatly disgusted by someone who should love their animals would post such a video.
I've actually been told different. I guess it depends on the type of seizure. Sometimes stimuli like touch makes it worse. They're not in control of themselves at all, they will pee and poop on themselves, and bite their tongue. They can't control their reactions to anything. I once spoke to my dad and it took him 15 more minutes for him to come to. I guess every case is different.

I'm glad touch worked for you and your rescue pup, but it still isn't something I would recommend. For someone who doesn't know what's going on or what to do picking up a seizing pup is the absolute worst thing. If you must pick them up, it's best to place them somewhere safe, like a comfy bed that is on the floor, and monitor them until they come to. Never leave them alone.

livingdustmops 06-14-2010 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3163173)
I've actually been told different. I guess it depends on the type of seizure. Sometimes stimuli like touch makes it worse. They're not in control of themselves at all, they will pee and poop on themselves, and bite their tongue. They can't control their reactions to anything. I once spoke to my dad and it took him 15 more minutes for him to come to. I guess every case is different.

I'm glad touch worked for you and your rescue pup, but it still isn't something I would recommend. For someone who doesn't know what's going on or what to do picking up a seizing pup is the absolute worst thing. If you must pick them up, it's best to place them somewhere safe, like a comfy bed that is on the floor, and monitor them until they come to. Never leave them alone.
I agree...I have been told the same thing.

puppylove11 06-14-2010 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3163173)
I've actually been told different. I guess it depends on the type of seizure. Sometimes stimuli like touch makes it worse. They're not in control of themselves at all, they will pee and poop on themselves, and bite their tongue. They can't control their reactions to anything. I once spoke to my dad and it took him 15 more minutes for him to come to. I guess every case is different.

I'm glad touch worked for you and your rescue pup, but it still isn't something I would recommend. For someone who doesn't know what's going on or what to do picking up a seizing pup is the absolute worst thing. If you must pick them up, it's best to place them somewhere safe, like a comfy bed that is on the floor, and monitor them until they come to. Never leave them alone.
First off I never picked her up! I would lay on the floor beside her and hug her until her seizure would stop. I would lay on the floor beside her in her pee and hold her until it was over, because I loved her and I would never post such a video of a dog I loved.

JeanieK 06-14-2010 06:49 PM
I don't understand why the OP was not given a statement from the vet. Why would the buyer not give her a statement and return the dog for a refund.

No one can expect to be given a refund and still keep the dog.

Things just don't add up.

BanditSocks2 06-14-2010 06:51 PM
Poor Scooter :( I hope his seizers are under control now with the meds and testing and everything.

DvlshAngel985 06-14-2010 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppylove11 (Post 3163184)
First off I never picked her up! I would lay on the floor beside her and hug her until her seizure would stop. I would lay on the floor beside her in her pee and hold her until it was over, because I loved her and I would never post such a video of a dog I loved.
I never said you picked up your pup. I just wanted to make it clear to anyone who doesn't know, or has never encountered a seizing pup that it is not a good idea. Many people read this thread, even non-members. If someone Googles "seizing dog" or "seizing puppy" the last thing I would want is for them to get the wrong idea when this thread is pulled up as a Google result. None of my comments were directed as an attack on you, they were comments based off your post. I'm sorry you took them the wrong way.

mojo 06-14-2010 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3163196)
I don't understand why the OP was not given a statement from the vet. Why would the buyer not give her a statement and return the dog for a refund.

No one can expect to be given a refund and still keep the dog.

Things just don't add up.
I've always wondered that in these disputes too. Why can't they provide something from the vet? I would personally never return a dog as you are attached to it at that point, but you could surely provide proof of the dogs ilness.

Baby Pepper 06-15-2010 03:36 AM
ditto. What is the value of such a video in a post like this, where two sides are trying to present themselves as having integrity and being trustworthy? To appeal to the emotional side of readers? Wouldn't most people have some idea what seizures look like?
A questionable approach to strengthen the buyer's argument, in my opinion.

Sugar's Mom 06-15-2010 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3163069)
As much as you would like to comfort them as you have said they need to be in a control place as to not hurt themself.

I would not have posted the video but the OP claims there was nothing wrong with the dog.

Like I said I have long since moved on.
The OP is the one who keeps wanting to stir things up.
Those posts were not longer visable until she posted them again.

She have been stalking and following me all over the net looking for any
peice of info to twist around.
Sherry, just so you know, Defamation according to the law, doesn't have to always be a false claim someone has made against you. You can be defamed by someone spreading stuff around on you that is done for the sole purpose of destroying your reputation and with a malicious intent. it does not have to be false. Just that they are running their mouth about you to hurt you. So if this person tries anything with you, you do have a leg to stand on. no matter what anyone's opinion is, and we all have them, this situation is five years old and as you said, you have moved on.

Sugar's Mom 06-15-2010 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3163196)
I don't understand why the OP was not given a statement from the vet. Why would the buyer not give her a statement and return the dog for a refund.

No one can expect to be given a refund and still keep the dog.

Things just don't add up.
you'd be surprised!!!!!!!

JeanieK 06-15-2010 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo (Post 3163281)
I've always wondered that in these disputes too. Why can't they provide something from the vet? I would personally never return a dog as you are attached to it at that point, but you could surely provide proof of the dogs ilness.
The problem is, if you don't return the dog, you cannot expect the seller to pay for the vet bills. A refund, upon proof of the condition, is reasonable, but not an open checkbook indefinitely.

Maximo 06-15-2010 05:37 AM
I found the title of the video distasteful: "Scooter the Seizure Yorkie."

Not a very compassionate title.

livingdustmops 06-15-2010 05:43 AM
Personally I find this whole thread has other motives and to post something 5 years later is just ridiculous and a lot of mis-information is being given.

I might add a lot of reputable breeders would let the owner keep the dog and pay the vet bills. If someone is only into breeding for the $$$ then they will do anything in their power to blame the new owner instead of stepping up to the plate and admit it might be from their breeding. Someone who is concerned for the dogs first would do this.

I highly doubt this happened because of dog food or a an injury to the brain but that is just my opinion based on a dog that was hit in the head with a baseball bat and if it was dog food the dog would be dead.

BamaFan121s 06-15-2010 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 3163514)
Personally I find this whole thread has other motives and to post something 5 years later is just ridiculous and a lot of mis-information is being given.
So it would seem...:thumbup:

Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 3163514)
I might add a lot of reputable breeders would let the owner keep the dog and pay the vet bills.
The points that have been made regarding this aspect kind of shocked me, to be honest.:confused: I was under the impression that the breeder *at least* assisting with vet bills was the norm. I would think at least paying the bills up to the purchase price of the dog would be resonable and not that unheard of. After seeing the comments made by some of the other breeders here, I see that is not the way this type of situation would typically be handled. :(

Pinehaven 06-15-2010 06:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 3163514)
Personally I find this whole thread has other motives and to post something 5 years later is just ridiculous and a lot of mis-information is being given.

I might add a lot of reputable breeders would let the owner keep the dog and pay the vet bills. If someone is only into breeding for the $$$ then they will do anything in their power to blame the new owner instead of stepping up to the plate and admit it might be from their breeding. Someone who is concerned for the dogs first would do this.

I highly doubt this happened because of dog food or a an injury to the brain but that is just my opinion based on a dog that was hit in the head with a baseball bat and if it was dog food the dog would be dead.
What misinformation is being given, do you have the email correspondence between these two people?

You say that "If someone is only into breeding for the $$$ then they will do anything in their power to blame the new owner instead of stepping up to the plate and admit it might be from their breeding." Well when the buyer will not provide vet reports, labs, and other information to back up their claims, do you really expect a breeder to end a breeding line, based on an unhappy buyers accusations? Sure it could be hereditary but it could also be a result of many other things too.

Opinions are one thing, actual happenings and facts are another, and the fact is, that dogs do have seizures as a result of food sensitivities and dogs do have seizures from something as simple as running into the leg of a table hard enough. My vet has seen both of these reasons, cause seizures in her patients.

BamaFan121s 06-15-2010 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 3163552)
You say that "If someone is only into breeding for the $$$ then they will do anything in their power to blame the new owner instead of stepping up to the plate and admit it might be from their breeding." Well when the buyer will not provide vet reports, labs, and other information to back up their claims, do you really expect a breeder to end a breeding line, based on an unhappy buyers accusations? Sure it could be hereditary but it could also be a result of many other things too.
No offense, but I think comments like this are exactly what Cindy meant in the whole thing sounding a bit fishy. Too many people quick to comment who are not involved with the situation, but who seem to have a lot of knowledge and very strong opinions regarding what has taken place. :)
When sides start being taken, seems like it's best for the parties involved to handled the matter privately instead of involving all of YT and having members drawing sides in the situation. But that's JMO. :)

chachi 06-15-2010 06:20 AM
I agree there should have been documentation then if the breeder stands by their breedings they should have paid the vet bills up to the purchase price. This is 5 yrs old though and I wonder why its all being hashed out now

livingdustmops 06-15-2010 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 3163552)
What misinformation is being given, do you have the email correspondence between these two people?

You say that "If someone is only into breeding for the $$$ then they will do anything in their power to blame the new owner instead of stepping up to the plate and admit it might be from their breeding." Well when the buyer will not provide vet reports, labs, and other information to back up their claims, do you really expect a breeder to end a breeding line, based on an unhappy buyers accusations? Sure it could be hereditary but it could also be a result of many other things too.

Opinions are one thing, actual happenings and facts are another, and the fact is, that dogs do have seizures as a result of food sensitivities and dogs do have seizures from something as simple as running into the leg of a table hard enough. My vet has seen both of these reasons, cause seizures in her patients.
Personally I think it is the approach a breeder takes and how the new owner will respond to them with information. If a breeder immediately starts trying to find reasons why it is not their breeding lines and back peddling then it shows me they are not as interested in the dogs as they are in shutting down a breeding line and their investment. A reputable breeder would not be as concerned with shutting down a line as they would be in producing happy heathy puppies. I have seen so many breeders immediately blame a dog for jumping off of a sofa for LP, I have seen contracts for puppies that makes my skin crawl to even call them breeders...they are just greeders IMHO. I don't personally think we spend enough time on YT looking at contracts of breeders because they tell a real story.

I would like to know how many dogs has your vet seen have seizures because of food sensitivites or run into the leg of a table? Yes it can happen but the odds are very slim on a dog having these kinds of seizure just from food.

I would also like to know why the OP has not come back to defend herself..


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