Desperate! Need advice

[JamieP]

Originally Posted by toke

I can't imagine that someone would be willing to take a 12 year old, sick pooch for some nefarious purpose. Seriously, why would they?

No, I don't either at all. It's not that I think she wont provide her with the things she needs. I'm upset that I left her in such a dirty environment. I'm honestly not trying to insinuate that I'm spotless, but my home is clean and taken care of. Makes me wonder if Ciera will have a clean place to sleep and baths when she needs them. I'm not even exaggerating, the place was gross and I'm hating myself for leaving her there due to my lack of funds to support her and her needs.

[lulumom]

Originally Posted by JamieP

I agree. Plus I still have her AKC papers. I'm just worried for her. The place was disgusting. She had another yorkie there that was in a DIAPER because she said it peed everywhere. When I walked into the livingroom, I witnessed the dog pee even thru the 'diaper' and then it pooped in the floor shortly before I left! My Ciera is housebroken! That could also send her in another direction. I don't know, if the conditions of the home were different, this would be hard and I would miss her but I wouldn't be panicing that I did the wrong thing.

holy smokes.....look my house is far from worthy of being in a home and gardens magazine but that just sounds...well...unsanitary?

either way, if i were you, i would be on my way to get my girl right now. sure, the lady may have some choice words for you but who cares? take her akc papers and if she gives you a hard time whip out your camera and start photographing the place. that will shut her up.

[lulumom]

that may well be but often times people take in every pet they hear about even to the detriment of the pet. they think they're helping until the spca shows up and removes dozens of malnourished, sick animals from the house. their initial intentions were good, but good intentions eventually became breeding ground for mental health issues to surface. it happens. may not be the case here, but who knows?

[JamieP]

Oh my gosh!!! You all are such wonderful, wonderful people on here and so helpful and supportive. I'm so blessed!
Like I mentioned, I just joined so I haven't really gone into many of the boards to read posts. I did read a few and felt everyone was so helpful to others in need that i decided to join up and get help with my problem.

No, I haven't tried Care Credit because I am drawing unemployment and to be honest, facing another bill on top of what I already have going out a month would put me in poverty. No joke!!! I am sooooo strapped now that if any medical crisis occured it would devastate me! I have already forgone my own health for my babies. Just last month one of my other babies had her teeth cleaned and a couple cysts removed and I had to pay over 350.00 for that. I'm just at a loss of what to do. I don't think I'll be in this situation long but one never knows. I'd hate for something to happen to one of them and me not being able to help them. Thus, why I went to this extreme. It's just so hard and it's harder to think that she is living in squaller thanks to me!!!

[ellabee]

your original post states that you contacted your local shelter, and that they provided your contact info to this woman to take your yorkie for you. contact the shelter that sent this woman to you and ask what your options are. maybe they can help in getting the pup back...although, it doesn't sound like you are in any position to take her back. discuss your concerns with the shelter, and see what they can do.

[yorkie_mama22]

I don't agree with the lady who said having a dirty house doesn't make you a bad owner, or something along those lines. It IS important. Urine, feces and garbage around your house is unsanitary. You may have a good heart and good intentions but that isn't what it is ALL about. Have you ever watched the show Hoarders. Those people sometimes have animals and sometimes those animals get lost in the mess and die. One time a lady had a couple dead cats that were YEARS old.


I personally don't see any excuse for having a messy house IF your expecting company over.

If I was having someone bring a dog to my home that I wanted to take in, my house would be spotless to put the best impression forward. Yes my house is messy sometimes. My bedroom is horrible at the moment but I keep the door closed, no kids or animals go in there when there is a mess, you just never know what they can get into or find!

[JamieP]

Originally Posted by yorkie_mama22

I don't agree with the lady who said having a dirty house doesn't make you a bad owner, or something along those lines. It IS important. Urine, feces and garbage around your house is unsanitary. You may have a good heart and good intentions but that isn't what it is ALL about. Have you ever watched the show Hoarders. Those people sometimes have animals and sometimes those animals get lost in the mess and die. One time a lady had a couple dead cats that were YEARS old.


I personally don't see any excuse for having a messy house IF your expecting company over.

If I was having someone bring a dog to my home that I wanted to take in, my house would be spotless to put the best impression forward. Yes my house is messy sometimes. My bedroom is horrible at the moment but I keep the door closed, no kids or animals go in there when there is a mess, you just never know what they can get into or find!

Yeah, I mentioned the 'hoarder' thing earlier, saying it was like walking into a hoarders home. To me, there's NO excuse for having urine stains all over the place unless you just don't care! I did find it unsettling because she made no effort to allow me to sit comfortably. There were 4 chairs in that room and a sofa you could only see the legs of. 2 chairs were available to sit in so my daughter had to stand the whole time. I had to move things out of the way to sit. I am uneasy about this. I'm sick to my stomach over it not knowing what to do to help this situation I have found myself in.

[Patti]

If it were me I would call the lady and say you realized you made a big mistake in rehoming her and you have found a way to financially provide for her and could you please come get her. Then maybe you could keep her and hopefully she won't need major vet care and when she does you may be in a better place. If not, you could place her in a rescue at that time. I would really act fast on this for all involved. Please keep us posted.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Patti

If it were me I would call the lady and say you realized you made a big mistake in rehoming her and you have found a way to financially provide for her and could you please come get her. Then maybe you could keep her and hopefully she won't need major vet care and when she does you may be in a better place. If not, you could place her in a rescue at that time. I would really act fast on this for all involved. Please keep us posted.

I really agree with Patti and the only other thing I would do is call the shelter that recommended this lady and tell them what you walked into. This was not a good place to leave your little one and the shelter needs to know this.

[TLC]

My heart is pounding for you. That poor senior girl is probably scared to death being in that place. Her heart is breaking too, being in a good loving home for 11 years and now that is gone.

There is NO excuse for urine to be ALL over the place!

Please go get your baby....

[mscat]

I would be having serious regrets leaving my baby in a filthy house , no matter house nice the person was. Right there, IMO , is a breech of contract. Granted, My place is not the most spotless, however, dirty , and clutter, poo and urin from other animals is a bad sign , especially if she did not hurry up and clean up after the dogs right away in front of you .
Do everything and anything in your power to get your dog back and out of this home . Your baby is elderly , and the unsanitary conditions that she is in , their is no doubt that this will effect her health in the long run .
Call the woman back asap , and beg for the return of your precious girl. tell her you have come up with the extra money to take care of your dog, and can do so, or tell her that you made other arrangements for your baby , that she can have the clean home, and loving care that she deserves.
No animal deseerves to live in a filthy home, regardless of how nice the human is.

[vbayne]

That 'contract' is not even worth the paper it is written on. GO get her!! Quickly!!

[JamieP]

Originally Posted by vbayne

That 'contract' is not even worth the paper it is written on. GO get her!! Quickly!!

LOL!!! I love you all!!!! What you all have said is exactly how I feel and where I'm coming from on this! It's driving me crazy not knowing how things are going over there with her. I tried to call her a little while ago and got no answer. The lady is an older lady and I'd say she is probably in bed. I'll call her in the morning tho and will let you all know what happens. Thank you to ALL of you. You've been great to me thru this, very kind and very helpful! I appreciate the support!
God bless you all!!! Please pray for us...

[katie_n_me]

It looks like you’re in a real mess; I sure feel for you.

I have some thoughts and advice that may be helpful. Please understand that I am not an attorney, and the advice I will share should not be relied upon as legal advice and you should consult with an attorney in your area for legal advice, if you want your dog back. With that said, here are my thoughts.

It seems like you clearly intended to give this dog away permanently based on your initial post.

However, if this was not your intention and you just wanted this woman to care for this dog temporarily until you were able to yourself, then bailment law seems to apply. Therefore, pursuant to bailment law, upon your demand, the dog would have to be relinquished or a wrongful misappropriation of your dog (property) could have occurred, ergo, embezzlement a.k.a. theft/larceny. If this is the case, you would have the right to use applicable force to retain your dog (property), contact the police as you would for stolen property or pursue legal action.

If it was your intention to give your dog away permanently, then it seems that standard gift law would apply. The primary elements for which are: (1) donative intent on the part of the donor (you), (2) delivery and (3) acceptance by the donee (woman). In order for this gift to be effective all 3 of these elements must exist, most importantly, as seems to be the case here, donative intent. This is important because based on my reading it does not seem you were able to form donative intent due to your extenuating circumstances (courts would look at the nature of the gift-its importance in this instance-and would construe donative intent and applicable law narrowly because of the clear importance of this dog to you, which you raised for 12 years).

Additionally, fraud can render a gift ineffective. For example, if you understood that this woman would take good care of your dog and then it became clear that this was a misrepresentation of fact (i.e., you entered the living room AFTER you wrote what she fraudulently induced you to write. Meaning that she misrepresented the fact that she would take good care of your dog so you would write the note BEFORE she allowed you to see her home-clear evidence to the contrary.), the gift would be ineffective. Thus, title of the property (your dog) could not have transferred, meaning you still own the dog.

On top of all these possible scenarios, pets, such as dogs, can be considered in your jurisdiction human/”human-like” for different purposes. For example, there have been some “wrongful death” cases where dogs died and the damages were formulated in a manner that tracks more similarly to wrongful death suit damages for humans then it does for damages established for destruction of property, which dogs have historically been considered. The trend seems to be moving away from considering dogs as property. Consider the recent rescue effort for the dog stuck in the flooded LA River in CA.

Another way this similarity between dogs and humans is seen is in the defense of others where a dog or human is defended (as an example, the ability to rescue). Because of this, you might be able to defend your dog more like a person rather than property. Also, when exigent circumstances exist, one person can, for example, enter the home of a stranger, even forcefully, if they saw the home on fire and entered with the intent to help the people inside. This could mean that if you had a reasonable belief that your dog, or even possibly another dog, was in immediate danger, you could use reasonable force you believe reasonably necessary to protect that dog.

Now that I’ve informed you of my thoughts, it does seem you face some difficulties. For example, chances are if you use this information to contact your local police requesting that they assist you to get your dog (your property), they will likely not know what I have stated here. So, you will have to explain to them the facts as you’ve presented them considering what I have said: You intended to give your dog to this lady. There are extenuating circumstances and you were incapable of possessing the requisite intent, therefore, you were unable to effectively give this dog as a gift. Also explain, how you were fraudulently deceived, voiding the gift (as explained above). You want your dog returned immediately. You have requested return of your dog (do it, if you haven’t) and she has refused. As a result, she has your stolen your property which you still desire to possess and request their assistance. If, in this process, she references the “note” which has your signature, state the following: (1) As stated, a gift must have the requisite donative intent, which as a result of the extenuating circumstances (duress), did not exist; (2) As stated, due to the fraudulent misrepresentation, the gift was not effective (you didn’t “give it” to her). Reassert your position-you want your property back.

It might not be advisable, despite what I have said, to try something on your own using force to get your dog back. The animal rescue groups may help you, as others have stated. The only other option I can think of is legal action (I would suspect this would be free considering your financial position). The action would be essentially the same, i.e., there was no gift, she wrongfully possesses your property, you want it returned immediately and you want the potential danger which exists for your dog alleviated by the court.

Not sure how far you want to take this or even if you want your dog back for sure. Maybe if you just throw some of these terms around with the woman she’ll relinquish your dog. She may well be aware of some legality since she had you write the “note” and may, then, reconsider her position.

I really tried to be of some help. I hope I was and wasn’t confusing. I have to confess, my son, a descendant of Clarence Darrow, did this (LOL).

I can tell that Ciera means a lot to you and I wish the best outcome for you all. Get your dog back, if that’s what you want.

I wish you all the best.

[GPONTLITZ]

I'm hoping you bring your elder care baby back home, aren't there any family or relatives that could help care for her till your in better shape.. my heart breaks to hear you gave her up.