docking tails for yorkies illegal - YorkieTalk.com Forums

HannahandMo · 10-03-2009, 12:42 PM

Why is it that in Germany it illegal to dock the tails of Yorkie Biewers aka Biewers akc Beiwer ala pom pon etc... and yet we in the United States won't pass that law. FYI this is not a posting on whether the Biewer is a seperate Terrier or part of the Yorkie family. It is about what can be done if anything about making it illegal to dock yorkies tails. Yes I dock tails as I am a breeder and I conform to the standards of AKC though mine are CKC registered, but I would love for a new standard to be in place. I know they are cute with docked tails, no disputing that. But if amputating something can be avoided ..why not. I have seen some beautiful yorkies with long tails as well. I am basically curious as to if anyone has information or if any laws are being worked on for this. Not interested in starting a long debate on it. Just simply curious. I do understand the health and hazards of dewclaws, but not the tail. If anyone could tell me if there is a reason other than cosmetic that would be appreciated. I am not being sarcastic, I just truly don't know

Nancy1999 · 10-03-2009, 12:55 PM

It use to be legal in England as well, but an animal rights group got involved, and showed videos of many inexperienced breeders butchering the tails. This prompted people to outlaw it altogether, and other European countries followed. Many experienced breeders claim it is not painful if done early enough and using the proper techniques, however there will always be those, who don't bother to read up on using the right techniques and will cause pain and mutilation. I have mixed feelings on the procedure. Joey's breeder docks a little longer than average, and I like this look, and don't care for the stubby look of too short of tail, you know, hardly an inch. I do wish we had some sort of a law that it should be done by an experienced vet, or a breeder who has passed some sort of test. I read too many threads about newbie breeders not wanting to pay a vet $5.00-20.00 to do it, and they want to do themselves, and are willing to learn all about it through a forum thread. I think this sort of thing happening will cause it to be outlawed here too.

HannahandMo · 10-03-2009, 01:03 PM

Yes I agree and I do dock (my vet physically does it). I do hope it becomes outlawed. I just wondering is someone or a group was working on it. My vet cuts the tail, cauterizes it and puts a stitch in it. I watched once. ONLY once! The puppies did squeal whether that be from pain or fear I am sure a plethora if comments would side with one or the other or both. If your not a puppy yourself how would you know. I have seen some of mine act like nothing ever happened then the others squeal very loud.
I must say though even if someone could say there is no pain...just the stress alone to mom and pups should make it outlawed

yorkie mad · 10-03-2009, 01:17 PM

Yorkies look cute with or without tails without a doubt but I don't like the idea of chopping any parts off of animals if it isn't necessary so here is Tia wagging her tail and I look forward to that wag every time I see her.

docking tails for yorkies illegal-867701505c.jpg

HannahandMo · 10-03-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkie mad

Yorkies look cute with or without tails without a doubt but I don't like the idea of chopping any parts off of animals if it isn't necessary so here is Tia wagging her tail and I look forward to that wag every time I see her.
Attachment 293908

cute

She looks happy

HannahandMo · 10-03-2009, 01:35 PM

I do like the tails and when I find a reputable IBC Biewer breeder to purchase from, I will happily enjoy the darlings little tail!!!! I cannot wait until the yorkie falls under the same regulations for their little tails

yorkie mad · 10-03-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HannahandMo

cute

She looks happy

Britster · 10-03-2009, 03:58 PM

Jackson's got his tail and I love it and so does everyone else who sees it

I don't find it to be "cruel" per say but I do think it's a completely unnecessary procedure and shouldn't be done. It just seems so pointless to me. Why should we cut off a dog's tail just so they can have a certain look that humans want? I love being able to see Jackson express his full tail, wagging!

kezza · 10-03-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britster

Jackson's got his tail and I love it and so does everyone else who sees it

I don't find it to be "cruel" per say but I do think it's a completely unnecessary procedure and shouldn't be done. It just seems so pointless to me. Why should we cut off a dog's tail just so they can have a certain look that humans want? I love being able to see Jackson express his full tail, wagging!

I'm very glad it has been banned here and i really hope the USA follow suit in the near future.
I too think it is totally unnecessary and many will still try to defend this procedure by saying it is for 'hygeine reasons' or to 'prevent tail injuries'...these just sounds like weak excuses to me for a procedure they know deep down is wrong and uncalled for...its dated in my opinion and it is about time this beautiful breed was celebrated in its full entireity.....the sooner the top show yorkies are being shown with complete full tail the better.
I love my Pixie's tail...its so pretty...she has long silky hair on hers which i brush out everyday..it is truly beautiful and never stops wagging...why would you want to remove it?

Lee B · 10-03-2009, 04:27 PM

All docking and cropping done for breed standards in the U.S. is done to achieve "beauty" in the eyes of humans. What God gave them is not quite good enough, and humans think it can be improved

.

For most of the rest of the world, it's considered animal cruelty to "mutilate" an animal. Dogs from the U.S. are not allowed to be shown in European shows if they've been "cosmetically altered".

My pups conformed to U.S. standards when I got them; if they didn't have their tails docked, it wouldn't have made a difference to me because I had no intention of ever showing them.

I must say, however, that I appreciate that they don't have dewclaws anymore: those have always annoyed me.

Britster · 10-03-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezza

I'm very glad it has been banned here and i really hope the USA follow suit in the near future.
I too think it is totally unnecessary and many will still try to defend this procedure by saying it is for 'hygeine reasons' or to 'prevent tail injuries'...these just sounds like weak excuses to me for a procedure they know deep down is wrong and uncalled for...its dated in my opinion and it is about time this beautiful breed was celebrated in its full entireity.....the sooner the top show yorkies are being shown with complete full tail the better.
I love my Pixie's tail...its so pretty...she has long silky hair on hers which i brush out everyday..it is truly beautiful and never stops wagging...why would you want to remove it?

I agree. I think it's ridiculous. If tails caused bad hygiene or there were a bunch of tail injuries, etc, tails on EVERY breed would have been docked. It's simply to please the humans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee B

All docking and cropping done for breed standards in the U.S. is done to achieve "beauty" in the eyes of humans. What God gave them is not quite good enough, and humans think it can be improved

.

For most of the rest of the world, it's considered animal cruelty to "mutilate" an animal. Dogs from the U.S. are not allowed to be shown in European shows if they've been "cosmetically altered".

My pups conformed to U.S. standards when I got them; if they didn't have their tails docked, it wouldn't have made a difference to me because I had no intention of ever showing them.

I must say, however, that I appreciate that they don't have dewclaws anymore: those have always annoyed me.

Jackson's still got dewclaws and they've never bothered him yet; however I feel like removing dewclaws is for a necessary reason as they can be very painful to a dog is caught on something, etc. I'm not against removing dewclaws at all.

Pup-e-Love · 10-03-2009, 06:16 PM

My Reesie still has his dewclaws and the vet said we should have them removed when he gets neutered. They do not seem to bother him, or me for that matter. Why are they routinely removed? What are the health reasons?

capt_noonie · 10-03-2009, 07:41 PM

I fostered a boy yorkie a while back. he had his dewclaws in. As a matter of fact, he even had some double teeth. His prior vet didn't bother to fix the teeth or mention dewclaws to the original owner when he was neutered, not good. Anyway, he hated people touching his feet. And it was reeeeeeeeally hard to clip his nails, esp the dewclaws. if not clipped, they can grow in a circular way and end up growing up into itself and into the skin (if that makes sense), causing pain. But if your dog is ok with nail clippings and feet handling, I guess it wouldn't matter then.

capt_noonie · 10-03-2009, 07:45 PM

I thought I read somewhere that it is not considered a fault for showing if a yorkie has a full tail? Is that only in the UK?

BanditSocks2 · 10-03-2009, 07:50 PM

I agree that if docking is done it should be done by a vet or a QUALIFIED person. Bandit was our first dog and we got him from a backyard breeder and he was extremely sick, very mistreated, and came to us with a plethora of physical illnesses and some issues. We even got $100 off because they CUT HIS TAIL OFF!!! They said it just "happens" sometimes when they (themselves...so scary after seeing their house and the dogs there!) dock the tails. When our second dog was in puppy class, there were 2 dobermans who were four months old who had their tails and ears docked. They were obviously in pain and uncomfortable even 1 and 2 weeks after the procedure. As for the dew claw, I'm personally glad they had theirs removed!

10-03-2009, 12:42 PM	#1
HannahandMo Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Palm Coast, FL US Posts: 126	docking tails for yorkies illegal Why is it that in Germany it illegal to dock the tails of Yorkie Biewers aka Biewers akc Beiwer ala pom pon etc... and yet we in the United States won't pass that law. FYI this is not a posting on whether the Biewer is a seperate Terrier or part of the Yorkie family. It is about what can be done if anything about making it illegal to dock yorkies tails. Yes I dock tails as I am a breeder and I conform to the standards of AKC though mine are CKC registered, but I would love for a new standard to be in place. I know they are cute with docked tails, no disputing that. But if amputating something can be avoided ..why not. I have seen some beautiful yorkies with long tails as well. I am basically curious as to if anyone has information or if any laws are being worked on for this. Not interested in starting a long debate on it. Just simply curious. I do understand the health and hazards of dewclaws, but not the tail. If anyone could tell me if there is a reason other than cosmetic that would be appreciated. I am not being sarcastic, I just truly don't know

10-03-2009, 12:55 PM	#2
Nancy1999 I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 25,396 Blog Entries: 2	It use to be legal in England as well, but an animal rights group got involved, and showed videos of many inexperienced breeders butchering the tails. This prompted people to outlaw it altogether, and other European countries followed. Many experienced breeders claim it is not painful if done early enough and using the proper techniques, however there will always be those, who don't bother to read up on using the right techniques and will cause pain and mutilation. I have mixed feelings on the procedure. Joey's breeder docks a little longer than average, and I like this look, and don't care for the stubby look of too short of tail, you know, hardly an inch. I do wish we had some sort of a law that it should be done by an experienced vet, or a breeder who has passed some sort of test. I read too many threads about newbie breeders not wanting to pay a vet $5.00-20.00 to do it, and they want to do themselves, and are willing to learn all about it through a forum thread. I think this sort of thing happening will cause it to be outlawed here too. __________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals

10-03-2009, 01:17 PM	#4
yorkie mad ♥Tiny Tia my Furbaby♥ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: portsmouth england Posts: 1,824 Blog Entries: 7	Yorkies look cute with or without tails without a doubt but I don't like the idea of chopping any parts off of animals if it isn't necessary so here is Tia wagging her tail and I look forward to that wag every time I see her. __________________ Lots of love from Julie , Olly &Tia's mummy. Yorkies leave paw prints on our hearts

10-03-2009, 03:58 PM	#8
Britster Action Jackson ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 17,814	Jackson's got his tail and I love it and so does everyone else who sees it I don't find it to be "cruel" per say but I do think it's a completely unnecessary procedure and shouldn't be done. It just seems so pointless to me. Why should we cut off a dog's tail just so they can have a certain look that humans want? I love being able to see Jackson express his full tail, wagging! __________________ ~ Brit & Lights! Camera! Jackson! CGC ETD TKP ~ Follow Jackson on Instagram: https://instagram.com/jacksontheterrier

10-03-2009, 07:41 PM	#13
capt_noonie www.yorkierescue.com Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Las Vegas & Orange County Posts: 17,408	I fostered a boy yorkie a while back. he had his dewclaws in. As a matter of fact, he even had some double teeth. His prior vet didn't bother to fix the teeth or mention dewclaws to the original owner when he was neutered, not good. Anyway, he hated people touching his feet. And it was reeeeeeeeally hard to clip his nails, esp the dewclaws. if not clipped, they can grow in a circular way and end up growing up into itself and into the skin (if that makes sense), causing pain. But if your dog is ok with nail clippings and feet handling, I guess it wouldn't matter then. __________________ The T.U.B. Pack! Toto, Uni, & Bindi RIP Lord Scrappington Montgomery McLimpybottom aka El Lenguo the Handicapped Ninja 10-12-12

10-03-2009, 01:03 PM	#3
HannahandMo Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Palm Coast, FL US Posts: 126	Yes I agree and I do dock (my vet physically does it). I do hope it becomes outlawed. I just wondering is someone or a group was working on it. My vet cuts the tail, cauterizes it and puts a stitch in it. I watched once. ONLY once! The puppies did squeal whether that be from pain or fear I am sure a plethora if comments would side with one or the other or both. If your not a puppy yourself how would you know. I have seen some of mine act like nothing ever happened then the others squeal very loud. I must say though even if someone could say there is no pain...just the stress alone to mom and pups should make it outlawed

10-03-2009, 01:35 PM	#6
HannahandMo Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Palm Coast, FL US Posts: 126	I do like the tails and when I find a reputable IBC Biewer breeder to purchase from, I will happily enjoy the darlings little tail!!!! I cannot wait until the yorkie falls under the same regulations for their little tails

10-03-2009, 04:27 PM	#10
Lee B YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Land O' Lakes, FL Posts: 735	All docking and cropping done for breed standards in the U.S. is done to achieve "beauty" in the eyes of humans. What God gave them is not quite good enough, and humans think it can be improved . For most of the rest of the world, it's considered animal cruelty to "mutilate" an animal. Dogs from the U.S. are not allowed to be shown in European shows if they've been "cosmetically altered". My pups conformed to U.S. standards when I got them; if they didn't have their tails docked, it wouldn't have made a difference to me because I had no intention of ever showing them. I must say, however, that I appreciate that they don't have dewclaws anymore: those have always annoyed me.

10-03-2009, 06:16 PM	#12
Pup-e-Love YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 896	My Reesie still has his dewclaws and the vet said we should have them removed when he gets neutered. They do not seem to bother him, or me for that matter. Why are they routinely removed? What are the health reasons?

10-03-2009, 07:45 PM	#14
capt_noonie www.yorkierescue.com Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Las Vegas & Orange County Posts: 17,408	I thought I read somewhere that it is not considered a fault for showing if a yorkie has a full tail? Is that only in the UK? __________________ The T.U.B. Pack! Toto, Uni, & Bindi RIP Lord Scrappington Montgomery McLimpybottom aka El Lenguo the Handicapped Ninja 10-12-12

10-03-2009, 07:50 PM	#15
BanditSocks2 YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Crofton, MD, USA Posts: 1,522	I agree that if docking is done it should be done by a vet or a QUALIFIED person. Bandit was our first dog and we got him from a backyard breeder and he was extremely sick, very mistreated, and came to us with a plethora of physical illnesses and some issues. We even got $100 off because they CUT HIS TAIL OFF!!! They said it just "happens" sometimes when they (themselves...so scary after seeing their house and the dogs there!) dock the tails. When our second dog was in puppy class, there were 2 dobermans who were four months old who had their tails and ears docked. They were obviously in pain and uncomfortable even 1 and 2 weeks after the procedure. As for the dew claw, I'm personally glad they had theirs removed!