Help with Breeding questions

[BamaFan121s]

4 yo is really a bit old for a female to have a first litter...at least without increased risks of complications. At that age, her skeletal structure will be "too set" to accomodate easily for the litter as it grows.

For future reference, skipping 3 days in between ties is too long. I personally prefer 3 ties, one per day, within a 4 day period. The key is knowing when that appropriate time for her to be bred is. When in question, have progesterone testing done. If you can assure you are breeding her on her most fertile days, only a few ties should be needed. Also, the goal should be to produce a healthy litter, which is not necessarily related to the number of pups in the litter, if you catch my drift.

[SET Yorkies]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Why is it that when someone comes here asking questions about breeding, there is always someone, a breeder themselves, that tells them all of the horrible things that can happen?

Why do they believe that they, themselves are so much better equipped to breed than the next person.

Why not merely suggest to them that they talk to other breeders so they know what they are getting into, so they can be prepared. Rather than to talk to them like they are a couple of 13 year olds who have decided to get pregnant.

Sugarsmom addressed the issue of the 4 year old dog. That was all that was needed on that issue.

To the OP, Good Luck to you if you decide to go into this. Please take the advise of Sugarsmom on the 4 year old. Get a new girl, and take your time researching.

I think there is certainly a multi-fold answer in that many want a lot less competition and would like to see a great deal fewer breeders out there. Others truly want to educate but sometimes come off a bit rude b/c their passion for the breed gets all tangled up the their posts. I think, too, a straight forward very dry response can come off rude as well... I'm certainly guilty of both at times... Well, and some folks are just not very nice.... but I degress... I've posted the following story before, and I think it may give the OP a healthy perspective on breeding and also explain why sometimes seasoned breeders can be a bit sharp....I know I've responded at times with this story in the back of my mind and could have been more diplomatic and gentle with my answers.... It isn't always rainbows and butterflies, but for some its the best thing they've ever done. Learning, reading, researching are all key to breeding; but, nothing can replace experience.


Every breeder on this board started somewhere….You certainly have the right to explore this endevor... Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor full of knowledge and experience (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor she offered me lots of advice, understood my grief and said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is really for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice and it is your responsibility”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. What I learned that winter about myself has carried me through a great deal of difficult days.... Since those early days, we've certainly had lots more good than bad. If you have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new endevor…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

[miikah rae]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Why is it that when someone comes here asking questions about breeding, there is always someone, a breeder themselves, that tells them all of the horrible things that can happen?

Why do they believe that they, themselves are so much better equipped to breed than the next person.

Why not merely suggest to them that they talk to other breeders so they know what they are getting into, so they can be prepared. Rather than to talk to them like they are a couple of 13 year olds who have decided to get pregnant.

Sugarsmom addressed the issue of the 4 year old dog. That was all that was needed on that issue.

To the OP, Good Luck to you if you decide to go into this. Please take the advise of Sugarsmom on the 4 year old. Get a new girl, and take your time researching.

I'm pretty new to YT and every single thread I open up somebody is complaining about another person's advice or opinion being to harsh or out of line. I dont see what the problem is. People come here for advice whether good or bad nice or "mean". Hopefully we are adults here and can consider the fact that people are gonna have opinions whether we like it or not. People spend too much tme worryng about how the person responded and not the informaton in the responses. I have yet come across an "out of line" response to a question just honest heart felt opinions. Some things you just cant take to heart and think that they are attacks. If it was verbally said i'm pretty sure it wouldnt come off as harsh or out of line, it would just be two or more people having a discusson or debate about some thing that touches them deeply. Take what you can out of the answers to the question people ask. Nobody says you have to agree with what is being said but we are entitled to our opinions. The reason for this forum (at least that's what I thought) was information, opinions and what you can learn from others experiences whether negative or positive. It's not about who's better than who or the competition, it's about the knowledge whether good/bad. Take what you can out of all the answers. If everyone agreed with each other this forum wouldnt be interested and there would be no growth in the knowledge you can get from here. Stop all this complaining and get to the real deal which is the fact that people are gonna have opinions. Agree to disagree.
I wonder what the Yorkies are thinking about this nonsense.
P.S. Dont take this as an "out of line" comment, it's surely out of good faith

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by miikah rae

I'm pretty new to YT and every single thread I open up somebody is complaining about another person's advice or opinion being to harsh or out of line. I dont see what the problem is. People come here for advice whether good or bad nice or "mean". Hopefully we are adults here and can consider the fact that people are gonna have opinions whether we like it or not. People spend too much tme worryng about how the person responded and not the informaton in the responses. I have yet come across an "out of line" response to a question just honest heart felt opinions. Some things you just cant take to heart and think that they are attacks. If it was verbally said i'm pretty sure it wouldnt come off as harsh or out of line, it would just be two or more people having a discusson or debate about some thing that touches them deeply. Take what you can out of the answers to the question people ask. Nobody says you have to agree with what is being said but we are entitled to our opinions. The reason for this forum (at least that's what I thought) was information, opinions and what you can learn from others experiences whether negative or positive. It's not about who's better than who or the competition, it's about the knowledge whether good/bad. Take what you can out of all the answers. If everyone agreed with each other this forum wouldnt be interested and there would be no growth in the knowledge you can get from here. Stop all this complaining and get to the real deal which is the fact that people are gonna have opinions. Agree to disagree.
I wonder what the Yorkies are thinking about this nonsense.
P.S. Dont take this as an "out of line" comment, it's surely out of good faith

You read the post you quoted wrong. The OP did not come here asking for tips or lectures on whether or not to breed altho someone saw fit to do just that. That is what we are complaining about. The questions he wanted answered were not even addressed in that big long lecture he got that he didn't ask for. Some of us tried to answer his questions and provide him with the info HE REQUESTED. And yes, I do think your post is out of line to those of us that did try to help him. Are you a breeder? Did you come to the thread to try to help? To learn? Everyone on this thread is an experienced breeder so far and hopefully, we were able to help him before the thread went astray .

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by miikah rae

I'm pretty new to YT and every single thread I open up somebody is complaining about another person's advice or opinion being to harsh or out of line. I dont see what the problem is. People come here for advice whether good or bad nice or "mean". Hopefully we are adults here and can consider the fact that people are gonna have opinions whether we like it or not. People spend too much tme worryng about how the person responded and not the informaton in the responses. I have yet come across an "out of line" response to a question just honest heart felt opinions. Some things you just cant take to heart and think that they are attacks. If it was verbally said i'm pretty sure it wouldnt come off as harsh or out of line, it would just be two or more people having a discusson or debate about some thing that touches them deeply. Take what you can out of the answers to the question people ask. Nobody says you have to agree with what is being said but we are entitled to our opinions. The reason for this forum (at least that's what I thought) was information, opinions and what you can learn from others experiences whether negative or positive. It's not about who's better than who or the competition, it's about the knowledge whether good/bad. Take what you can out of all the answers. If everyone agreed with each other this forum wouldnt be interested and there would be no growth in the knowledge you can get from here. Stop all this complaining and get to the real deal which is the fact that people are gonna have opinions. Agree to disagree.
I wonder what the Yorkies are thinking about this nonsense.
P.S. Dont take this as an "out of line" comment, it's surely out of good faith

Your post in no way pertains to what the OP asked. However, neither did several of the other responses I suppose. It strayed off topic before you posted. That being said though, I completely agree with what you've stated.

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

The OP did not come here asking for tips or lectures on whether or not to breed altho someone saw fit to do just that. The questions he wanted answered were not even addressed in that big long lecture he got that he didn't ask for. Some of us tried to answer his questions and provide him with the info HE REQUESTED.

Agreed. I think that the OP got the answers he was looking for (regarding how to space out ties) and some other helpful information on top of that that he likely didn't know but desperately needed to be aware of (regarding a a first litter for a 4 yo not being ideal).

Generally speaking, I like to see people receiving the information they are looking for, but also, if something else presents itself that others can offer advice on, that's good to see too. For example, I would HOPE that if someone posted up asking for advice on some specific detail on breeding a 3 pound girl, that someone would have the gall to speak up and advise against it...whether it was specifically asked about or not.

[TOY]

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies

I think there is certainly a multi-fold answer in that many want a lot less competition and would like to see a great deal fewer breeders out there. Others truly want to educate but sometimes come off a bit rude b/c their passion for the breed gets all tangled up the their posts. I think, too, a straight forward very dry response can come off rude as well... I'm certainly guilty of both at times... Well, and some folks are just not very nice.... but I degress... I've posted the following story before, and I think it may give the OP a healthy perspective on breeding and also explain why sometimes seasoned breeders can be a bit sharp....I know I've responded at times with this story in the back of my mind and could have been more diplomatic and gentle with my answers.... It isn't always rainbows and butterflies, but for some its the best thing they've ever done. Learning, reading, researching are all key to breeding; but, nothing can replace experience.


Every breeder on this board started somewhere….You certainly have the right to explore this endevor... Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor full of knowledge and experience (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor she offered me lots of advice, understood my grief and said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is really for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice and it is your responsibility”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. What I learned that winter about myself has carried me through a great deal of difficult days.... Since those early days, we've certainly had lots more good than bad. If you have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new endevor…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

In full disclosure...I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in breeding. In fact, the one year I taught a primary grade, I gagged every time a child pulled a tooth and proudly stuck it in my face so I could join in their celebration and their excited anticipation of the tooth fairy.

I don't even remember now why I wandered into this thread but the concept about not doing a first breeding at 4 years caught my interest.

I do want to tell you though that your description of your first experience as a breeder is profoundly touching. In fact, I wish there was a section where a post like that could be saved for easier access such as when a sticky is attached (for lack of a better description). Perhaps a "hall of fame" for great posts, if you will.

The story of your experience gives the most heartfelt and detailed explanation of why one should approach the subject of becoming a breeder with full knowledge and acceptance of how difficult the job can become. You mentor should be very proud and your story would well serve those who need a more balanced view on breeding.

It is quite apparent to me that breeding Yorkies is a bit like teaching. From the outside looking in it doesn't appear to be that difficult especially when observing someone who knows what they are doing. However, from the inside looking out it is the most difficult job you'll ever love because if it is your passion, nothing could keep you from it...not even the scoops of poop as you so expressively state!

Kudos to you for a fantastic post about your experience!

[bailie]

hi to all i wud just like to say when someone comes on and asks for advice on breeding they shud get it in a way that is friendly, when someone is harsh in the answer the op will not listen to cheeky but true advice, sure i dont think that the op has even answered back. i believe there is a way off talking to people and getting ur point across to which they wud listen