Stress piddler

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by kalina82

i'm not sure if you totally understand what "blue born" means. Its not just about the color of the coat. "Blue" yorkies have coat and skin problems. Most die within the first few days of life. Some live to adulthood but they start to loose their hair and their skin becomes leather-like and extremely painful. So painful that they need to be put to sleep because there is nothing else that can be done. A few can live normal lives but they are the exception.

Here is a thread on YT http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...e-puppies.html that talks about blue borns. Even if your pup is healthy and fine he is not a dog you want to breed. he can pass on the harmful blue type gene and his puppies may suffer and die.

please reconsider. Have your boy neutered and the female too. Work with her and she will come around. I'm sure the urination problems will stop if you seriously work with her. have a trainer come to the house or speak with an animal behaviorist.

Also you say that you go away a lot and leave your husband and son to care for the dogs. Are they going to know what to do if something happens to pregnant Birdie while you are gone? What if she whelps when you aren't there? Will they be able to help her? What about taking care of the puppies when she has them? Normal healthy puppies are hard enough to care for but imagine if they have health problems. that is a lot to ask of your husband and son, especially since they are already not happy with her peeing problems.

I agree with Kalina about the blue born. I did read that you (OP) said you had read on here that some breed blue born dogs to strengthen the blue in their line. I think you may be mistaken. Some breed the red-legged yorkies to bring stronger color back in their line, but I have NEVER read anyone recommending breeding blue born to strengthen the blue. For one thing, it is not the same thing at all. Kalina has already explained a little about the blue born genetics and linked more info for you. I would read that and make sure you understand that a blue born should never be bred. Here is another reference to read on them: Top Yorkie Genetics Chocolate Yorkies Chocolate Yorkie Red Golden Blue Born Yorkshire Terrier

Almost every yorkie owner has had family and friends say they want a puppy from them. Let's face it -- Yorkies are adorable! Some of these people are even serious and not just saying what they wish or think is cute to say. But -- breeding a toy dog is serious business. It should not be entered into lightly or assumed that it is such a natural thing they will take care of it on their own. Since you say you do not want to be a breeder, then you should not breed, as you would then be a breeder, just not a very good one. To be a good breeder, you need to spend some time researching, reading, talking, absorbing, and studying the breed, mating, whelping, care and rearing of a litter, etc. You need to have your male and female tested for genetic conditions and diseases that can be passed on either to each other or their offspring. You need to have them evaluated by experienced breeders who are very knowledgeable and can compare them to the standards they should meet before reproducing. Just to have cute puppies, is not a reason to breed. There are plenty of cute puppies in the shelters and rescue organizations. Leave breeding to the ones who are willing to invest the time and energy to do it right.

Love your pups, spay/neuter them and relax. Those friends and relatives will live without one of your dog's pups. If they really wanted a yorkie that much, I figure they would probably go ahead and buy one of their own, regardless of you being able to hand them a free one. With all of the other stressors you have mentioned, this does not seem like a good time in your life to have puppies anyway and you certainly do not have an appropriate pair to mate.

Since you are not bonding with this female, I would take Manolos up on her offer to buy her now before either of you go through any more frustration. I do not think you are abusing her. I do think you are unhappy with her and I am sure she can sense that at some level. Better for her to go now to a new home and hopefully bond with a family that is right for her. I do think there are dogs that are not right for every family.

I have previously tried to talk people into being patient and working through problems with their new dogs. After more than one tragic result, I have changed my mind. If someone is unhappy enough to come on a Yorkie forum and say they are going to rehome their dog, then I think they should do it for the sake of the dog. So, I will not encourage you to work with her or seek training remedies. Since you have already voiced the desire to sell her as soon as you can get a litter from her, I would encourage you to forgo the breeding and rehome her now. Best for all concerned, imo. I have tried to make sure I have worded everything in such a way that you will really consider it and not react in the sarcastic, obviously irate way you originally responded. I don't want to make you mad, but do want you to take onboard the information and opinions I am relaying. Wish the best for all of you!

[yorkie mad]

Originally Posted by kerrylatrece

I bought a 2yr. old female from a breeder. She was moving into town and getting out of the business. The dog has had one litter previously. This dog is VERY submissive. My main problem is that she is a stress piddler. If she is scared or surprised she piddles. Otherwise she is well housebroken.
Any tips for breaking this behavior?
Once a dog has submissive behavior can it be changed?

I have not bonded well with this dog. She is pretty and sweet but she just does not have the personality I like in a dog. Once I have bred her and weaned my pups I will probably sell her.

Did you honestly not expect a bad reaction after writing that?
Think before you type if you want positive feedback , there was no need to add the last 3 sentences, we all love dogs here .

[blancla]

I was just curious if you decided to sell her today?

[megansmomma]

I have read through this entire thread and would like to add one thing that I do not think was mentioned previously. Once you use Petey as a stud you can pretty much guarantee that he will MARK(pee) in your home. So even if you sell your female after her litter you will still have a dog that could quite possibly spend the rest of his life either in belly bands or marking indoors. Just a little food for thought.

I'm hoping that you have decided to reconsider your decision to have a litter of puppies for your friends and family.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I have read through this entire thread and would like to add one thing that I do not think was mentioned previously. Once you use Petey as a stud you can pretty much guarantee that he will MARK(pee) in your home. So even if you sell your female after her litter you will still have a dog that could quite possibly spend the rest of his life either in belly bands or marking indoors. Just a little food for thought.

I'm hoping that you have decided to reconsider your decision to have a litter of puppies for your friends and family.

Good point! How could I have not thought to mention that? Since I am going through that very problem with my once wonderfully house-trained Ben. Now, he likes to mark table legs and even wall corners. He is testing me big time on this. I was about ready to make an appointment to neuter him, but I am being talked out of it by everyone who sees him. He is a pretty boy but I can't deal with this marking thing!

[Robin Lodal]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I agree with Kalina about the blue born. I did read that you (OP) said you had read on here that some breed blue born dogs to strengthen the blue in their line. I think you may be mistaken. Some breed the red-legged yorkies to bring stronger color back in their line, but I have NEVER read anyone recommending breeding blue born to strengthen the blue. For one thing, it is not the same thing at all. Kalina has already explained a little about the blue born genetics and linked more info for you. I would read that and make sure you understand that a blue born should never be bred. Here is another reference to read on them: Top Yorkie Genetics Chocolate Yorkies Chocolate Yorkie Red Golden Blue Born Yorkshire Terrier

Almost every yorkie owner has had family and friends say they want a puppy from them. Let's face it -- Yorkies are adorable! Some of these people are even serious and not just saying what they wish or think is cute to say. But -- breeding a toy dog is serious business. It should not be entered into lightly or assumed that it is such a natural thing they will take care of it on their own. Since you say you do not want to be a breeder, then you should not breed, as you would then be a breeder, just not a very good one. To be a good breeder, you need to spend some time researching, reading, talking, absorbing, and studying the breed, mating, whelping, care and rearing of a litter, etc. You need to have your male and female tested for genetic conditions and diseases that can be passed on either to each other or their offspring. You need to have them evaluated by experienced breeders who are very knowledgeable and can compare them to the standards they should meet before reproducing. Just to have cute puppies, is not a reason to breed. There are plenty of cute puppies in the shelters and rescue organizations. Leave breeding to the ones who are willing to invest the time and energy to do it right.

Love your pups, spay/neuter them and relax. Those friends and relatives will live without one of your dog's pups. If they really wanted a yorkie that much, I figure they would probably go ahead and buy one of their own, regardless of you being able to hand them a free one. With all of the other stressors you have mentioned, this does not seem like a good time in your life to have puppies anyway and you certainly do not have an appropriate pair to mate.

Since you are not bonding with this female, I would take Manolos up on her offer to buy her now before either of you go through any more frustration. I do not think you are abusing her. I do think you are unhappy with her and I am sure she can sense that at some level. Better for her to go now to a new home and hopefully bond with a family that is right for her. I do think there are dogs that are not right for every family.

I have previously tried to talk people into being patient and working through problems with their new dogs. After more than one tragic result, I have changed my mind. If someone is unhappy enough to come on a Yorkie forum and say they are going to rehome their dog, then I think they should do it for the sake of the dog. So, I will not encourage you to work with her or seek training remedies. Since you have already voiced the desire to sell her as soon as you can get a litter from her, I would encourage you to forgo the breeding and rehome her now. Best for all concerned, imo. I have tried to make sure I have worded everything in such a way that you will really consider it and not react in the sarcastic, obviously irate way you originally responded. I don't want to make you mad, but do want you to take onboard the information and opinions I am relaying. Wish the best for all of you!

Great post, Debra.

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Good point! How could I have not thought to mention that? Since I am going through that very problem with my once wonderfully house-trained Ben. Now, he likes to mark table legs and even wall corners. He is testing me big time on this. I was about ready to make an appointment to neuter him, but I am being talked out of it by everyone who sees him. He is a pretty boy but I can't deal with this marking thing!

Same here. My Max is struggling with this as well, especially when he feels that he is alone (no humans) in the house (I think he has separation anxiety). He is Houdini and can almost escape from just about anything and when he does, he marks EVERYTHING. Its totally NOT fun scouring the house finding all his little markings every time he escapes when we are not home. Its been very trying.

[kerrylatrece]

Submissive Urination

The Dog Can't Help It

Thanks for this article. This is the kind of info I came here for. Maybe my natural instincts of not being emotionally tied to this dog were correct. But I have been fighting it, trying extra hard to connect. It is very hard to see a poor little animal cowering every time you look at her. Your natural human instinct is to comfort her. But I need to think in dog, not in human.

[kerrylatrece]

"This poor girl, has been through a lot in her short 2 years,no wonder she is submissive, used as a puppy machine $,and sold to a new owner, is reason enough for her to pee when scared or surprised.Good thing you were able to rescue her from unscrupulous hands and give her a good loving home .If the possibility of health problems is not an issue,she could be fixed and I'm sure with time, love and patience she will come around and you two will be able to bond"

I appreciate the fact that you think I might be of some good in this dogs life.

I do have issues with the bold statements quoted.
I guess only the breeders who post here are scrupulous? Have you been to her house? Seen her kennel? What in what I wrote led you to believe she is unscrupulous. All breeders will go out of the business or die at some point. What is to become of their breeding stock? Won't they sell them to people who want them as pets or to other breeders?

To say she was used as a puppy machine when she only had one litter is a little extreme in my opinion. Do the breeders who post here miraculously produce pups without their dams giving birth? Do they only ever breed their dams once? Why are they not unscrupulous?

Really, don't you think that you are insinuating a lot into something you do not know to be fact?

[kerrylatrece]

Originally Posted by sugarmamma

My sister is very shy and submissive....AND SHE'S PREGNANT I better warn her not to reproduce

I'm not sure what the point is here. Are you saying that shy submissive dogs should or should not reproduce? As for your sister, she may be pregnant because she is submissive.(For the humorously impaired, that was a joke)

[livingdustmops]

[QUOTE
I do have issues with the bold statements quoted.
I guess only the breeders who post here are scrupulous? Have you been to her house? Seen her kennel? What in what I wrote led you to believe she is unscrupulous. All breeders will go out of the business or die at some point. What is to become of their breeding stock? Won't they sell them to people who want them as pets or to other breeders?

To say she was used as a puppy machine when she only had one litter is a little extreme in my opinion. Do the breeders who post here miraculously produce pups without their dams giving birth? Do they only ever breed their dams once? Why are they not unscrupulous?

Really, don't you think that you are insinuating a lot into something you do not know to be fact?[/QUOTE]

No, not all breeders who post here are scrupulous which is sad but true. In answer to your question about breeding stock when they go out of business or die this is a very sad story also as many of these dogs go to auctions to be used over and over again from greeders. Some are even turned into shelters to be euthanized and some are taken out back and shot. The dog breeding world is not pretty and here are a couple of links you might want to look at.

YouTube - Dog Auctions

Puppymills - auctions of dogs in commercial kennels.

You are right we have not been to this breeders house but how do you know she was telling you the truth? I don't mean any disrepect with this statement but we all know on here breeders lie all the time. How did you find her (the breeder)? What proof do you have this little girl only had 1 litter? Where do you think the dogs slept at night? How did the other dogs act when you came to the house? What did the lady do to quiet them down? Does this breeder have a website? Was she breeding other breeds? I ask these questions because frankly most Yorkies are not submission and will fight to the end and will bark their fool heads off if someone comes to the house. I do have one of my rescue's that is submission but she was beaten and tortured so she is frightened of her shadow. I have to take everything slow with her.

I do believe it would be cruel to her to have a litter as her brain is very scrambled for whatever reason.

[kerrylatrece]

How did you find her (the breeder)? What proof do you have this little girl only had 1 litter? Where do you think the dogs slept at night? How did the other dogs act when you came to the house? What did the lady do to quiet them down? Does this breeder have a website? Was she breeding other breeds?

I replied to a classified add. I went to her home. She and her husband were in the back yard washing dogs. The dogs (maybe 6 or 7) barked of course. They were not unruly and we ignored them. She had one female she pointed out to me that was soon to deliver. She had one 15wk female puppy for sale and Birdie. She told me that she was moving into the city to be closer to her son who had recently moved out and I guess she had empty nest syndrome. The woman lived in a mobile home near a lake. She had kennels under the mobile home and fans under there. She told me that she alternated the dogs, taking some into the house and putting others out. She kept the mothers and pups in the house. Birdie was housebroken so I suppose she was getting some attention.
All the dogs looked clean. She had complete vet records, recently dated wormer sticker on Birdies record. She told me about homeopathic supplements she used with her dogs. She told me she had bred Birdie once, there were no complications. How does one prove that a bitch has only been bred once? How would I know if that was a lie or not? Her tits are not distended, but it is obvious that she has nursed in the past. She said that Birdie had recently been in heat. She was obviously not bred at that time. She has not come into heat again and I have owned her about 3 months. The woman didn't appear to hide anything from me. She allowed me to see her breeding stock and where they live. She sold me a dog, she didn't auction it or abandon it, or have it euthanized. I don't know if she had a website or not. The only breed I saw were standard size Yorkies. So forgive me if I take issue with you characterizing her as unscrupulous. I didn't see any evidence to support that remark.

[livingdustmops]

I DID NOT say this breeder was unscrupulous..I made a post to your point that you think (maybe.. maybe not) once breeders are done with their breeding stock they pet them out. NO they don't.

You prove a bitch has had x amount of litters from her registration papers...did you get any papers on her?

Now having read what you posted about this breeder keeping dogs under her trailer in kennels then this is a person to me that doesn't care about her dogs. Yorkies should never be treated this way....end of story.

[bailie]

Originally Posted by kerrylatrece

I bought a 2yr. old female from a breeder. She was moving into town and getting out of the business. The dog has had one litter previously. This dog is VERY submissive. My main problem is that she is a stress piddler. If she is scared or surprised she piddles. Otherwise she is well housebroken.
Any tips for breaking this behavior?
Once a dog has submissive behavior can it be changed?

I have not bonded well with this dog. She is pretty and sweet but she just does not have the personality I like in a dog. Once I have bred her and weaned my pups I will probably sell her.

OMG is this a joke, i cant believe what i have read, some bloody people just dont deserve pets

[Robin Lodal]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

[QUOTE
I do have issues with the bold statements quoted.
I guess only the breeders who post here are scrupulous? Have you been to her house? Seen her kennel? What in what I wrote led you to believe she is unscrupulous. All breeders will go out of the business or die at some point. What is to become of their breeding stock? Won't they sell them to people who want them as pets or to other breeders?

To say she was used as a puppy machine when she only had one litter is a little extreme in my opinion. Do the breeders who post here miraculously produce pups without their dams giving birth? Do they only ever breed their dams once? Why are they not unscrupulous?

Really, don't you think that you are insinuating a lot into something you do not know to be fact?

No, not all breeders who post here are scrupulous which is sad but true. In answer to your question about breeding stock when they go out of business or die this is a very sad story also as many of these dogs go to auctions to be used over and over again from greeders. Some are even turned into shelters to be euthanized and some are taken out back and shot. The dog breeding world is not pretty and here are a couple of links you might want to look at.

YouTube - Dog Auctions

Puppymills - auctions of dogs in commercial kennels.

You are right we have not been to this breeders house but how do you know she was telling you the truth? I don't mean any disrepect with this statement but we all know on here breeders lie all the time. How did you find her (the breeder)? What proof do you have this little girl only had 1 litter? Where do you think the dogs slept at night? How did the other dogs act when you came to the house? What did the lady do to quiet them down? Does this breeder have a website? Was she breeding other breeds? I ask these questions because frankly most Yorkies are not submission and will fight to the end and will bark their fool heads off if someone comes to the house. I do have one of my rescue's that is submission but she was beaten and tortured so she is frightened of her shadow. I have to take everything slow with her.

I do believe it would be cruel to her to have a litter as her brain is very scrambled for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]

Wow, that video was very disturbing.

[HERBS]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

No, not all breeders who post here are scrupulous which is sad but true. In answer to your question about breeding stock when they go out of business or die this is a very sad story also as many of these dogs go to auctions to be used over and over again from greeders. Some are even turned into shelters to be euthanized and some are taken out back and shot. The dog breeding world is not pretty and here are a couple of links you might want to look at.

YouTube - Dog Auctions

Puppymills - auctions of dogs in commercial kennels.

You are right we have not been to this breeders house but how do you know she was telling you the truth? I don't mean any disrepect with this statement but we all know on here breeders lie all the time. How did you find her (the breeder)? What proof do you have this little girl only had 1 litter? Where do you think the dogs slept at night? How did the other dogs act when you came to the house? What did the lady do to quiet them down? Does this breeder have a website? Was she breeding other breeds? I ask these questions because frankly most Yorkies are not submission and will fight to the end and will bark their fool heads off if someone comes to the house. I do have one of my rescue's that is submission but she was beaten and tortured so she is frightened of her shadow. I have to take everything slow with her.

I do believe it would be cruel to her to have a litter as her brain is very scrambled for whatever reason.

Oh Cindy,

I have been following this thread and had promised myself to not post again but, I just watched this video you posted... My heart hurts! My husband walked by and asked me why I was watching the video (he knows how tender my heart is). Then he began to watch with me. We are is shock this really happens. It was a true eye opener! Thank you for posting. As sad as it made me, it was very educational. I can't begin to imagine what all happens out in thhis great big world that I have no clue of! I live in my own little world and try to keep the people and dogs I love safe and show them everyday how special they are to me. I am blessed to be able to share my love with my fur kids and even more blessed they allow me to! Having a pet (any pet) in your world is not ownership, it is mutual respect and love for one another until death do you part. This is something that should be strongly remembered before bringing one home. Regardless of their faults or yours, there has to be unconditional love for one another. They breathe, eat, are happy and sad... They are just as alive as humans and the sad fact is, they cannot turn a door knob to leave. They are helpless and depend on us as their caregiver to do the right thing. This video has awakened many feeling inside me. One being shame for not rescuing a needy baby and buying babies only with pedigrees! This video has also brought me ironically, pride for the way my 4 babies (one of which is not a yorkie) are cared for and loved with my whole heart! My post should bring you a smile forever in your heart because I vow, the next baby that is brought into this home will be a rescue with or without papers! Thank you for your post. It was God's will that you touch one life today and it was mine!