Debarking Hooks

[bjh]

I have never had a dog debarked but if I had to choose between losing my dog or having it debarked then I would chose the debarking. Why is debarking anymore cruel than spay and neutering, is that 'natural'? I have a friend that bought a 8 month old puppy from a top show breeder and he was debarked. He could still bark but it was a quiet bark. He is a champion now. I agree that other methods should be tried first but the OP should make the decision based on what is best for her dog and her situation. Whatever she decides she has my support and I wish her the best.

[k9trainer]

Ahem. A dog is a dog. A dog barks. If a may be so blunt, if you didnt want a dog that barks, may i suggest a stuffed one?

Ive been around debarked shelties. IT IS TERRIBLE. The dog can still make little barking sounds. It is so strained because he WANTS to bark, but he cant. Its like a person that has lost there voice. They bcome frustrated. You are taking away a big way of how your dog communicates when you debark a dog.

Its like declawing a cat. Which i am 100 % against. You get a cat, a cat has claws. Cats scratch, its a well known fact. If you didnt want a cat with claws, that will scratch things, get a stuffed one. (FYI, declawing a cat is a MAJOR amputation, taking part of the cats toes, and the human equivilant would be chopping your fingers off at the knuckle, many cats will not use a litter box after wards. Or jump. Or get on any high surfaces, it effects balance. Which i know is off topic, but declawing a cat is animal cruelty, and so is de barking, an animal.)
how would you like to have your voice box removed?

[mjharpst]

I would like to see the dogs go to somewhere else rather than to resort to the debarking. I agree with the above that as a student and getting away with it for so long, you will not be able to do it for long! Please try other methods before resorting to this.

I want the best for you and your dogs and I do think you want what is best for them, but I think you are risking a lot sneeking them around. Good luck!

[makhro]

I think one of my biggest concerns and why I am so passionate about the issue is because I've lived on campus, from dorms to on campus apartments and a lot, a LOT of people try to have pets and I would say most of them get busted. I would hate to have this pup lose his bark possibly permanently for something that is a temporary situation that is not even guaranteed.

[k9trainer]

Originally Posted by bjh

. Why is debarking anymore cruel than spay and neutering, is that 'natural'? I.

Your right. S/N is just a cruel. S/N helps control pet population, and many people who dont s/n will not taht the initiative to stop a pregnancy from happening. S/N helps get dogs/cats off the streets and ends alot of needless suffering. S/N also reduces the number of unwanted animals in shelters,making less animals having to experience life in a cage. Not to mention how much alot of shelters save money when an animal is not allowed to reproduce because of S/N.. And lets not forget how many animals would have to be needlessly uthanized daily because of pet over population... Its just a joy to see a 1 year old black mixed breed dog be put to sleep because nobody wanted him. Even though he was never anything but kind, loyal and loving.

but debarking is only to accomedate the owner. And the owners "happiness" whilst not taking the dogs hapiness into consideration at all.

Yep, exactly the same thing

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

I have to admit I was pretty horrified when I opened this thread, but then I got to thinking: we breed our dogs artificially, we take away their sex organs, we cut off their tails, we choose when they die... I know this is a very bald way of putting it, but a surgical de-bark doesn't seem out of the question to me.

HOWEVER, like others have said, I would consider it an absolute last resort. Your dog may need his bark someday to let you know he's in trouble, or to tell others that YOU are in trouble. He needs his bark to communicate with other dogs. And from what I have heard, the resulting sounds are really pitiful.

Thor barked inside a lot until I tried pennies in a can. I literally shook it maybe a dozen times, and that was the end of that. Much cheaper, much faster, and much less invasive.

You make a neat little list, but if you consider each of these individually, they don't necessary have to be cruel. We breed dogs, yes, but good breeders understand how to do this successfully and not produce a genetically crippled offspring. Taking away a dogs sex organs is also not a cruel behavior, what I believe to be cruel, is having a male dog who has this incredible urge, and yet no way to satisfy it. Cutting off their tails, if done early, and with the correct procedure, I also consider not to be cruel. Your last reason of choosing when they die, is perhaps the kindest thing we do for animals that we don't do for humans. However, there are some breeders who recommend hitting the dog with a hammer to induce death.

Any of these things can be done cruelly, we all know breeders who breed 3 pounders who are at risk for cesareans, later joint problems, and worst. We all know breeders who breed a young dog before they even know if he has genetic ailments. I've read of breeders who perform neutering and spaying with no anesthesia, and of course all the byb's who don't know how to properly cut tails, and are too cheap to see a vet. These are the same people who often use debarking methods, and it usually involves a medal tube crammed down a dog's throat, very cost effective.

Even though the surgery she's choosing is a humane alternative, the result is the same, and the dog will know it can no longer bark, this is the part, I believe is inhumane. Neutered dogs, don't know what they're missing.

I would rehome a dog before I would consider debarking.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

You make a neat little list, but if you consider each of these individually, they don't necessary have to be cruel. We breed dogs, yes, but good breeders understand how to do this successfully and not produce a genetically crippled offspring. Taking away a dogs sex organs is also not a cruel behavior, what I believe to be cruel, is having a male dog who has this incredible urge, and yet no way to satisfy it. Cutting off their tails, if done early, and with the correct procedure, I also consider not to be cruel. Your last reason of choosing when they die, is perhaps the kindest thing we do for animals that we don't do for humans. However, there are some breeders who recommend hitting the dog with a hammer to induce death.

Any of these things can be done cruelly, we all know breeders who breed 3 pounders who are at risk for cesareans, later joint problems, and worst. We all know breeders who breed a young dog before they even know if he has genetic ailments. I've read of breeders who perform neutering and spaying with no anesthesia, and of course all the byb's who don't know how to properly cut tails, and are too cheap to see a vet. These are the same people who often use debarking methods, and it usually involves a medal tube crammed down a dog's throat, very cost effective.

Even though the surgery she's choosing is a humane alternative, the result is the same, and the dog will know it can no longer bark, this is the part, I believe is inhumane. Neutered dogs, don't know what they're missing.

I would rehome a dog before I would consider debarking.

I agree I would rehome before I debarked also.

[k9trainer]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

You make a neat little list, but if you consider each of these individually, they don't necessary have to be cruel. We breed dogs, yes, but good breeders understand how to do this successfully and not produce a genetically crippled offspring. Taking away a dogs sex organs is also not a cruel behavior, what I believe to be cruel, is having a male dog who has this incredible urge, and yet no way to satisfy it. Cutting off their tails, if done early, and with the correct procedure, I also consider not to be cruel. Your last reason of choosing when they die, is perhaps the kindest thing we do for animals that we don't do for humans. However, there are some breeders who recommend hitting the dog with a hammer to induce death.

Any of these things can be done cruelly, we all know breeders who breed 3 pounders who are at risk for cesareans, later joint problems, and worst. We all know breeders who breed a young dog before they even know if he has genetic ailments. I've read of breeders who perform neutering and spaying with no anesthesia, and of course all the byb's who don't know how to properly cut tails, and are too cheap to see a vet. These are the same people who often use debarking methods, and it usually involves a medal tube crammed down a dog's throat, very cost effective.

Even though the surgery she's choosing is a humane alternative, the result is the same, and the dog will know it can no longer bark, this is the part, I believe is inhumane. Neutered dogs, don't know what they're missing.

I would rehome a dog before I would consider debarking.

I would also rehome before even CONSIDERING debarking...I think it would be selfish not to.

[bjh]

Here is an interesting article that talks a little about debarking and some of the myths that go along with it.
NAIA: Debarking* (Bark Softening) - Myths and Facts

In my opinion, neutering male dogs is not in their best interest, the cons outweigh the pros. People do it because they don't want to be responsible for accidents. Spaying females at a very young age is cruel and not in their best interest. If a dog is barking to the point that it is disturbing the neighbors and everyone in the house then as a last resort it is better to debark than to send them to a animal shelter or to rehome the problem.

I have some very vocal outspoken babies and thank goodness I live way out in the country so me and my husband are the only ones that have to listen to them.

[FlDebra]

I agree -- rehome before debarking! What happens if you put your dogs through this debarking and then you get caught with them on campus and are told they must leave? What would you do then? Whatever it is, do that now instead. Think of your dogs instead of yourself. If dogs are against campus rules, then don't bring them on campus. I don't think anyone should think they are above the rules especially to the point that they would mutilate their dog just to keep them hidden. What happens if after debarking, they keep running out in the open where they could be seen? Will you find someone to hobble them?

It would be a simple procedure to make a person mute also. Hardly any harm done, except the loss of your voice. Would you want that? I don't think your dogs do either.

I have never heard of anyone but puppymillers debarking dogs! I did not realize a reputable vet would even do that!

[jeanm1963]

Humans talk & YELL, cats meow, cows moo, and dogs bark enough said!!

I think that is horribly cruel, barking and growling is a defense mechanisim , god gave them that tool , to alert and defend themselves, who are we to take it away.. Please rehome , do not debark....

The thought of someone removing my voice box because they didnt want to hear me talk makes me shrill...

[mjharpst]

I keep coming back and reading what others have posted, but what I can not get over is the fact that the dogs have to be sneeking around! What quality of life does this dog have? I know I may have snuck mine into Walmart but it was for a few hours- sneeking them into the dorms, when do they play and relax? These poor babies are being smuggled in and have no stability. It just seems all in all selfish to me. Possibly rehoming them is the best choice at this point in time. I am not trying to attack you, but there is a line between doing whats best for them and doing whats best for you.

[FlDebra]

I did read some on this and there are just as many sites against debarking as the one posted promoting it. It is illegal to debark dogs in Ohio! -- Yea Ohio! Other states have been trying to pass anti-debarking laws. Many vets refuse to perform the surgery! Yea vets! The Association of Pet Dog Trainers is against the surgery! Yea APDT! I guess if it was absolutely the last resort, meaning professional training had been tried and failed, and all other methods of behavior modification had been REALLY tried and failed, the penny can had tried and failed, the spray collar had tried and failed, and the dogs were living in an area where dogs were allowed, then, maybe .......... no then, I would still just move somewhere that would not annoy others and let them bark as God intended!

[Sookie]

After seeing a dog that was debarked I can't begin to tell you how heartbreaking it is...I was always, always against debarking (Matty Lu LOVES to bark, so I know what you are going through; believe me!!) but actually witnessing a dog after the procedure I am even more adamently against it.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

You make a neat little list, but if you consider each of these individually, they don't necessary have to be cruel. We breed dogs, yes, but good breeders understand how to do this successfully and not produce a genetically crippled offspring. Taking away a dogs sex organs is also not a cruel behavior, what I believe to be cruel, is having a male dog who has this incredible urge, and yet no way to satisfy it. Cutting off their tails, if done early, and with the correct procedure, I also consider not to be cruel. Your last reason of choosing when they die, is perhaps the kindest thing we do for animals that we don't do for humans. However, there are some breeders who recommend hitting the dog with a hammer to induce death.

Any of these things can be done cruelly, we all know breeders who breed 3 pounders who are at risk for cesareans, later joint problems, and worst. We all know breeders who breed a young dog before they even know if he has genetic ailments. I've read of breeders who perform neutering and spaying with no anesthesia, and of course all the byb's who don't know how to properly cut tails, and are too cheap to see a vet. These are the same people who often use debarking methods, and it usually involves a medal tube crammed down a dog's throat, very cost effective.

Even though the surgery she's choosing is a humane alternative, the result is the same, and the dog will know it can no longer bark, this is the part, I believe is inhumane. Neutered dogs, don't know what they're missing.

I would rehome a dog before I would consider debarking.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this, but I find the comment about my neat little list a little snide. Not sure if it was intended that way. I was merely trying to point out that we control almost every aspect of dogs' lives, and some we take for granted, while others seem horrifying. I disagree with some of your points, but I am not in favor of de-barking, so I don't really want to get into a point by point debate.

For the record, I don't believe in tail docking, declawing cats, or debarking. As I said before, there are many training alternatives, so no, it's not something I would do, particularly since it appears to be a permanent solution to a temporary problem.