Are male Yorkies just as good as females? - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

oopsmyhalofello · 05-16-2009, 06:50 PM

I have all female's in my home. there are 2 reasons I went with females 1. They are more independant and 2. I have all sons so I needed some girls in the house with me

wemple2 · 05-16-2009, 07:18 PM

I love the little boy dogs...Winston has never marked in the house, he is trained to go potty outside and yes, he lifts his leg outside and always has, way before he was neutered at 6 months. I really believe if they are marking in the house, they are not trained...Winston has never had a single accident in the house...ever. I swear he would explode before he let it trickle in the house. He is my little dream dog...and that's not a nightmare...

JoshieBoy · 05-16-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtsmichele

Oh let me tell you . . . I seriously considered it. Unfortunately, at some point, I do want grand kiddies that don't bark.

Michele :-)

Hilarious

Nancy1999 · 05-16-2009, 07:28 PM

Marking is different than peeing, and if you read about some of the early experiments in aversion training, scientists found it's almost impossible to get them to stop once it's started. This behavior is considered wired into the brain, and a dog has no real control over it. In the past, many techniques were use to try to reduce the behavior. Even extremely aversive techniques were used, and they had little or no effect on reducing the marking. Marking is influenced by the hormone testosterone, and while the testes make the bulk of testosterone, the adrenal glands make some too, and the amount varies greatly between dogs. Even female adrenal glands produce testosterone, and some females will mark. Other dogs and smells in the house also influence the marking behavior. So while they are some people that say they taught their dog not to mark, I wouldn't count on it.

QuickSilver · 05-16-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Marking is different than peeing, and if you read about some of the early experiments in aversion training, scientists found it's almost impossible to get them to stop once it's started. This behavior is considered wired into the brain, and a dog has no real control over it. In the past, many techniques were use to try to reduce the behavior. Even extremely aversive techniques were used, and they had little or no effect on reducing the marking. Marking is influenced by the hormone testosterone, and while the testes make the bulk of testosterone, the adrenal glands make some too, and the amount varies greatly between dogs. Even female adrenal glands produce testosterone, and some females will mark. Other dogs and smells in the house also influence the marking behavior. So while they are some people that say they taught their dog not to mark, I wouldn't count on it.

I'm sorry, I totally disagree with this, so much so that I feel like I must be reading it wrong. There are probably millions of intact male dogs in the country. Are you saying that all of these owners, myself included, have not noticed that our dogs are marking in the house? Believe me, I've seen Thor mark stuff indoors, and now he doesn't. He DID poop inside today, which was a huge bummer.

I have also known dozens of people with intact male dogs who do not mark indoors. It's simply not true that all male dogs mark inside.

Maybe you mean that you can't train a male dog completely out of marking, indoors or outdoors, and that may be true. I'd be surprised, because if you can train a dog not to mark indoors, I would imagine you could convince him not to mark other places, but certainly Thor is a determined little guy outside.

I would say that an otherwise well-behaved dog, male or female, may feel prompted to mark indoors if confronted with someone (usually another dog) who they feel has invaded their territory. But you absolutely, 100% can train your dog not to pee inside, meaning no urine leaves his body for any reason.

aslish_ps · 05-17-2009, 12:06 AM

chuck is 8 mo old, and I got him neutered when he was 6 1/2 mo. He never marked indoors or outdoors, never lifted his leg.
He now has a little brother who's almost 4 mo, they have been living together for 6 weeks now but there has been no marking (knock on wood

) And they're both pee pad trained. Well, let's say we're still working on it with little Apple

I've had both female and male dogs and males are definitely my favourite

chestermama · 05-17-2009, 01:09 AM

chester is potty pad trained and he does mark outside, he will pee inside sometimes but its just peeing not marking, nothing on furniture etc and females can mark its not only males. My girlfriend has a pom and she lifts her leg like a male. Chester is a love bug always has been and neutering a dog is less invasive than spaying a female

Marilize · 05-17-2009, 02:12 AM

I disagree that a dog can't be trained out of marking. I have a male and a female and Cash (male) used to mark everything inside. I couldn't take him into a new house because he would mark everything. I got him neutered and he has never marked inside again. He does lift his leg whenever he pees and he marks outside. He marked me when we went to meet June (totally gross), but he has never marked inside the house again.

With regards to the male vs female discussion, Cash is totally independent, he doesn't really cuddle and although he is an excellent worker, he is also very moody. He gets bitchy with June and if he is angry with me, he will sulk for days. He has good moods and bad moods (in bad moods, he usually retreats to the laundry bin or snaps at June).

Cash has never been affectionate and he only cuddles with me when he is cold - I am happy that winter is here! It took me a long time to warm up to him and him to me. We have a great bond now, but that is thanks to clicker training. He is a great worker and will do anything to hear that 'click'.

Now, June (female) on the other hand is still a puppy, but she is the sweetest little thing ever. She loves to cuddle, wants to be near you the whole time and is way more affectionate. She is also well on her way to being clicker trained.

I think it depends on personality since I searched a long time to get a puppy like June. I already had an independent dog and wanted to get a cuddly, sweet little thing and I found her. She is still very young, but she has a submissive, yet spunky personality and I am falling in love with the little rascal. I turned down a lot of cute puppies because I was set on not having an independent dog again.

I know it may change as she gets older, but she is way more sensitive than Cash ever was and she is so eager to please. The rest is just learned behaviour.

AprilLove · 05-17-2009, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Marking is different than peeing, and if you read about some of the early experiments in aversion training, scientists found it's almost impossible to get them to stop once it's started. This behavior is considered wired into the brain, and a dog has no real control over it. In the past, many techniques were use to try to reduce the behavior. Even extremely aversive techniques were used, and they had little or no effect on reducing the marking. Marking is influenced by the hormone testosterone, and while the testes make the bulk of testosterone, the adrenal glands make some too, and the amount varies greatly between dogs. Even female adrenal glands produce testosterone, and some females will mark. Other dogs and smells in the house also influence the marking behavior. So while they are some people that say they taught their dog not to mark, I wouldn't count on it.

I'm really curious what those techniques were? Do you have some link or something I could read about these early experiments?

I firmly believe that dogs can be trained (key) to do or not do, anything that is within their physical abilility. JMHO

Nancy1999 · 05-17-2009, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AprilLove

I'm really curious what those techniques were? Do you have some link or something I could read about these early experiments?

I firmly believe that dogs can be trained (key) to do or not do, anything that is within their physical abilility. JMHO

That's just the point, many behaviorist think it's not within their physical ability. Just like it's not possible to train a person not a sneeze, it just happens. They are classic studies in experimental psychology, not something I read on the web, so I can't link it to you. Remember before a scientist says a behavior can be reduced, it has to pass a test of statistical significance, meaning that it has to be shown comparing numbers of before and after "treatment" if the "therapy" worked, and not just on one dog, but a large enough group, to meet statistical standards. It started the basis in thinking some behavior is wired into the brain and can't be changed, I'm sure you've heard about the Nature vs. Nurture studies? I don't think they could even do the studies today; the techniques used for aversion were too horrible. Marking is a little more complex than people realize. Some dogs never mark, even though they are intact, it has to do with many factors, I just don't think one could say because they "taught" their dog not to mark, that this is something other dogs can be taught, it's not that simple. Not only that, but by giving people the hope that they can "train" their dog not to mark, it might set up some perfect conditions for abuse. Like I said earlier, this doesn't mean that no dog can be trained not to mark, I just wouldn't count on it, and that's why many breeders use belly bands.

AprilLove · 05-17-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

That's just the point, many behaviorist think it's not within their physical ability. Just like it's not possible to train a person not a sneeze, it just happens. They are classic studies in experimental psychology, not something I read on the web, so I can't link it to you. Remember before a scientist says a behavior can be reduced, it has to pass a test of statistical significance, meaning that it has to be shown comparing numbers of before and after "treatment" if the "therapy" worked, and not just on one dog, but a large enough group, to meet statistical standards. It started the basis in thinking some behavior is wired into the brain and can't be changed, I'm sure you've heard about the Nature vs. Nurture studies? I don't think they could even do the studies today; the techniques used for aversion were too horrible. Marking is a little more complex than people realize. Some dogs never mark, even though they are intact, it has to do with many factors, I just don't think one could say because they "taught" their dog not to mark, that this is something other dogs can be taught, it's not that simple. Not only that, but by giving people the hope that they can "train" their dog not to mark, it might set up some perfect conditions for abuse. Like I said earlier, this doesn't mean that no dog can be trained not to mark, I just wouldn't count on it, and that's why many breeders use belly bands.

Many breeders use belly bands becaue their males are used for breeding and mating with females and females in heat are in the same house. I think this thread is more about male pets not used for breeding.

I disagree about setting up perfect conditions for abuse, because thats like saying if someone can't train their dog, they are going to abuse them? I'm a little confused on your point there, it could be I haven't had all my coffee yet though, lol

QuickSilver · 05-17-2009, 08:13 AM

I have known many dogs and many people with dogs and I'd never heard of belly bands until I joined YT. I'm sorry, this makes no sense to me. It goes against all my experience, and the experiences of many people here. I have absolutely seen Thor go from marking in my apartment to not doing so, and it was part of potty training. Now, I'm not sure I would trust him in someone else's house, but that's still a training issue I think - I can't practice that enough to know one way or the other, and that would be for peeing AND marking.

I would hate to think that someone would get talked out of getting a male dog because they thought they couldn't control indoor marking. Of course you can.

================================

ETA: Yeah, I'm not sure how intact males would act around a female in heat, I could certainly see that prompting marking.

phfgkl · 05-17-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtsmichele

Oh let me tell you . . . I seriously considered it. Unfortunately, at some point, I do want grand kiddies that don't bark.

Michele :-)

LOL The grandkids that don't bark are harder to take care of than the ones that do, believe me, I know, I had 2 of mine here with me almost all day yesterday

phfgkl · 05-17-2009, 08:38 AM

My sister in law always said how good her little guy was, he never marked. Until she went cleaning down the walls one day, he had been having a ball in the house while she was working.

tskinner · 05-17-2009, 08:44 AM

Roc is trained to go outside and has been for quite a while now, surprisingly eaiser job than I thought it would be, but he is not neutered (since my dh says nobody his touching his manly parts) and he has never marked in the house. He has a great tempermant. I am contemplating getting a female next go around so this is a very interesting post for me.

05-16-2009, 06:50 PM	#31
oopsmyhalofello Just Pawz Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Liverpool, NY Posts: 1,827	I have all female's in my home. there are 2 reasons I went with females 1. They are more independant and 2. I have all sons so I needed some girls in the house with me __________________

05-16-2009, 07:18 PM	#32
wemple2 Wee Winston Wiggles Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Kewanee, Illinois Posts: 9,666	I love the little boy dogs...Winston has never marked in the house, he is trained to go potty outside and yes, he lifts his leg outside and always has, way before he was neutered at 6 months. I really believe if they are marking in the house, they are not trained...Winston has never had a single accident in the house...ever. I swear he would explode before he let it trickle in the house. He is my little dream dog...and that's not a nightmare... __________________ As Ever, Kathy Intruducing Bentley Winston and Spencer: RIP My Sweet Angels

05-16-2009, 07:28 PM	#34
Nancy1999 I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 25,396 Blog Entries: 2	Marking is different than peeing, and if you read about some of the early experiments in aversion training, scientists found it's almost impossible to get them to stop once it's started. This behavior is considered wired into the brain, and a dog has no real control over it. In the past, many techniques were use to try to reduce the behavior. Even extremely aversive techniques were used, and they had little or no effect on reducing the marking. Marking is influenced by the hormone testosterone, and while the testes make the bulk of testosterone, the adrenal glands make some too, and the amount varies greatly between dogs. Even female adrenal glands produce testosterone, and some females will mark. Other dogs and smells in the house also influence the marking behavior. So while they are some people that say they taught their dog not to mark, I wouldn't count on it. __________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals

05-17-2009, 12:06 AM	#36
aslish_ps Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Turkey, Istanbul Posts: 63	chuck is 8 mo old, and I got him neutered when he was 6 1/2 mo. He never marked indoors or outdoors, never lifted his leg. He now has a little brother who's almost 4 mo, they have been living together for 6 weeks now but there has been no marking (knock on wood) And they're both pee pad trained. Well, let's say we're still working on it with little Apple I've had both female and male dogs and males are definitely my favourite __________________ CHUCK&APPLE

05-17-2009, 02:12 AM	#38
Marilize YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cape town, South Africa Posts: 703	I disagree that a dog can't be trained out of marking. I have a male and a female and Cash (male) used to mark everything inside. I couldn't take him into a new house because he would mark everything. I got him neutered and he has never marked inside again. He does lift his leg whenever he pees and he marks outside. He marked me when we went to meet June (totally gross), but he has never marked inside the house again. With regards to the male vs female discussion, Cash is totally independent, he doesn't really cuddle and although he is an excellent worker, he is also very moody. He gets bitchy with June and if he is angry with me, he will sulk for days. He has good moods and bad moods (in bad moods, he usually retreats to the laundry bin or snaps at June). Cash has never been affectionate and he only cuddles with me when he is cold - I am happy that winter is here! It took me a long time to warm up to him and him to me. We have a great bond now, but that is thanks to clicker training. He is a great worker and will do anything to hear that 'click'. Now, June (female) on the other hand is still a puppy, but she is the sweetest little thing ever. She loves to cuddle, wants to be near you the whole time and is way more affectionate. She is also well on her way to being clicker trained. I think it depends on personality since I searched a long time to get a puppy like June. I already had an independent dog and wanted to get a cuddly, sweet little thing and I found her. She is still very young, but she has a submissive, yet spunky personality and I am falling in love with the little rascal. I turned down a lot of cute puppies because I was set on not having an independent dog again. I know it may change as she gets older, but she is way more sensitive than Cash ever was and she is so eager to please. The rest is just learned behaviour. __________________ Cash & Orio RIP Beautiful Joni

05-17-2009, 01:09 AM	#37
chestermama YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: washington Posts: 3,383 Blog Entries: 1	chester is potty pad trained and he does mark outside, he will pee inside sometimes but its just peeing not marking, nothing on furniture etc and females can mark its not only males. My girlfriend has a pom and she lifts her leg like a male. Chester is a love bug always has been and neutering a dog is less invasive than spaying a female

05-17-2009, 08:13 AM	#42
QuickSilver Thor's Human Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,929 Blog Entries: 31	I have known many dogs and many people with dogs and I'd never heard of belly bands until I joined YT. I'm sorry, this makes no sense to me. It goes against all my experience, and the experiences of many people here. I have absolutely seen Thor go from marking in my apartment to not doing so, and it was part of potty training. Now, I'm not sure I would trust him in someone else's house, but that's still a training issue I think - I can't practice that enough to know one way or the other, and that would be for peeing AND marking. I would hate to think that someone would get talked out of getting a male dog because they thought they couldn't control indoor marking. Of course you can. ================================ ETA: Yeah, I'm not sure how intact males would act around a female in heat, I could certainly see that prompting marking. __________________ If you love something, set it free. Unless it's an angry tiger. Last edited by QuickSilver; 05-17-2009 at 08:17 AM.

05-17-2009, 08:38 AM	#44
phfgkl BANNED! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,376	My sister in law always said how good her little guy was, he never marked. Until she went cleaning down the walls one day, he had been having a ball in the house while she was working.

05-17-2009, 08:44 AM	#45
tskinner Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 80	Roc is trained to go outside and has been for quite a while now, surprisingly eaiser job than I thought it would be, but he is not neutered (since my dh says nobody his touching his manly parts) and he has never marked in the house. He has a great tempermant. I am contemplating getting a female next go around so this is a very interesting post for me.