first litter and have already lost one...

[zorrolinchen]

[quote=worcester;2565803]Ok let me clear something up here so you all can settle down, my female has knee trouble like almost all yorkies will or do already have her knee pops out of joint which causes her legs to go out she has had this since she was little it is not bad on her nor does it hurt my vet says it is very comin in this breed they pop out so much even when not PG that she has wore out the joint so now they are more out then in most of the time. as for her heat I keep very close watch on it by calender and she was to go into heat 3 weeks before I sent her to my xx but had no sign of it and her 2nd heat of her life she never had any signs no bleeding no swelling nothing so I thought she had done the same thing this timequote]

I want to answer that. No, knee trouble (Patella luxation) is a big fault in a breeder dog and every responsible breeder would not use a dog with patella or legg perthes for breeding. If all breeders would think so than would patella and leggs perthes a minority problem. In germany your dog will be tested for such things and then outclosed from breeding.

It may be that she now have no pain but who can say it in future? I had a chihuahua puppy with patella and some years she was not in pain and then she was yelping and crying and I had taken her to the vet and she died during the operation. Please bote that the success of a patella operation can not be guaranteed by a vet.

A small tiny dog can come into heat without showing signs as bleeding and so one. So it could be that you cannot notice her heat but the male CAN IT and DOES IT.

[Woogie Man]

Like others here, I'm upset about this girl with severe LP having babies. I won't make a judgement (well, at least not to the point of name calling) on the issue but will say many times vets give bad advice or even no advice. It does sound like this vet didn't stress the dangers of LP enough though it is the owner's ultimate responsibility. My current vet told me that one of my pups was a beautiful specimen and I should keep her and breed her. She was, at that time, 7 months old and 3 pounds. Needless to say, I found a proper pet home for her as she was much too small to breed. With that being said, I hope that the pups Dad has good structure and the pups didn't inherit Mom's knee problems. Though, I would never breed a girl such as this, it doesn't automatically mean that the pups are destined to have the same condition. I truly hope, for the pups' sake, that they take after their (hopefully sound) father as far as structure goes.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Like others here, I'm upset about this girl with severe LP having babies. I won't make a judgement (well, at least not to the point of name calling) on the issue but will say many times vets give bad advice or even no advice. It does sound like this vet didn't stress the dangers of LP enough though it is the owner's ultimate responsibility. My current vet told me that one of my pups was a beautiful specimen and I should keep her and breed her. She was, at that time, 7 months old and 3 pounds. Needless to say, I found a proper pet home for her as she was much too small to breed. With that being said, I hope that the pups Dad has good structure and the pups didn't inherit Mom's knee problems. Though, I would never breed a girl such as this, it doesn't automatically mean that the pups are destined to have the same condition. I truly hope, for the pups' sake, that they take after their (hopefully sound) father as far as structure goes.

I still don't understand why the word irresponsible breeding is being considered name called. IMO name calling would be using wording like stupid, moron, idiot, fool, bozo, jerk~none of which I have used toward the OPer or for that fact anyone else in this thread or in any other posts that I have ever mad on YT. Furthermore, I would never use those words when addressing any member of this forum no matter what is being said about my opinions. It is upsetting to me that not only does the OP not understand the seriousness of her little one's LP but he vet has not fully explained what exactly this means as well. Way back on the very first page on this thread it was concerning to me that she was on to her second accident. What jumped out to me personally was that the pups back legs were popping out while she was walking during her FIRST pregnancy~then she allowed a second accident to occur. The second accident almost cost this little one her life! All because they "love" each other This pup is 2 yrs old and has what sounds like Grade 4 LP~even Woogie Man who is a breeder. I am very concerned for her overall health and very upset at the lackadaisical attitudes of some member here, including the OPer that feel I am being over reactive to this attitude.

Seriously, I would love to know what the plan is to treat this pup with the severe LP possibly Grade 4 defect? According to the OPer she is rubbing bone on bone~this required surgery~~~very expensive surgery and there is no mention of any treatment plan just explanations of why she was and how she got pregnant for a second time. Personally, I believe that OPer needs to find a new vet that is fully informed of the congenital defect Luxating Patella and the needed treatment (surgery) of this condition. Right now in our rescue we have a hydrocephalus, double leg perthes, liver shunt, and also a AAI puppy that is paralyzed. This is not to even include two girls that just had litters of puppies that were from a mill and also found on the street~one of which needed a c-section. Plus just about every dog in the southern rescues are Heartworm positive which is something that is 100% preventable with a little pill every month. Where does all this money to fix these pups come from?? Donations and not from people that breed irresponsibly. They just dump and run and let everyone else clean up their accidents and messes. So I am sorry when I am not handing out warm and fuzzes to pet owners that are not responsible for their pets and allow things like this to happen.

[Woogie Man]

Megansmomma, you're right in that there has been no actual name calling but the tone of this thread has been, IMO, overly critcal when criticism, along with some help that these pups obviously need, is more in order. That's just my opinion and I've tried to conduct myself accordingly.

Without knowing the whole story, it does seem like the vet dropped the ball somewhere. I think that, oftentimes, people do get into bad situations due to bad and/or no advice. Unfortunately, it's the dog or puppies that suffer from this. Not saying that's the case here, but it seems to point to it being so.

People tend to post here with their immediate problem and we almost never know the whole background and can only respond to what's being posted. I see pups in possible crisis and an owner asking for help. My focus is to address that issue. I know your focus is different and that's okay. At the end of the day, I feel we're both 'all about the dogs'. When you think about it, wouldn't helping these pups get off to a good start be considered a kind of rescue? Also, that poor mama needs help for her legs and, from what's been posted, the OP needs to find a vet more attentive to her needs.

[heatherm0890]

worcester, im sure you have an excellent vet but this porblem does seem a lil more serious than a slight knee issue,im just suggesting maybe getting a second opinion or having him run some tests,lp is very serious...look on this forum and you will find tons of info! good luck,how are the babies today?


woogie man, you just said everything i have been thinking,that was a great post!

[Woogie Man]

Worcester, I missed your last post as I got called away while typing mine. I do feel that you have not been given the best advice, no matter how many vets you've seen. Any girl that has her knees popping out as you described should be considered a severe case and surgery should be considered. I wish you the best in getting past your immediate situation (raising these pups), but really feel that LP surgery should be considered before Sadie's joints are too deteriorated to be helped. If you have any specific questions about raising your pups, feel free to PM me and I'll help in any way I can.

[worcester]

I did not breed her to sell puppies ...i did not breed her period it was a accident if you believe it or not i'm not a breeder or a milll... And if i have never taken sadie to another vet then i would do what you people are saying to have her checked for lp but she has seen two other vets and they have all said the same thing she might need surgery as she gets older but only if she is in pain.
She only did this while pg no other time does her legs give out .... I do agree with woogie she is and was to small to get pg but what's is done is done to late to go back...

[heatherm0890]

Originally Posted by worcester

I did not breed her to sell puppies ...i did not breed her period it was a accident if you believe it or not i'm not a breeder or a milll... And if i have never taken sadie to another vet then i would do what you people are saying to have her checked for lp but she has seen two other vets and they have all said the same thing she might need surgery as she gets older but only if she is in pain.
She only did this while pg no other time does her legs give out .... I do agree with woogie she is and was to small to get pg but what's is done is done to late to go back...

its good that you have seen other vets,it always helps to get a second opinion

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by worcester

I did not breed her to sell puppies ...i did not breed her period it was a accident if you believe it or not i'm not a breeder or a milll... And if i have never taken sadie to another vet then i would do what you people are saying to have her checked for lp but she has seen two other vets and they have all said the same thing she might need surgery as she gets older but only if she is in pain.
She only did this while pg no other time does her legs give out .... I do agree with woogie she is and was to small to get pg but what's is done is done to late to go back...

Now you are saying that only when pg her legs give out? You just said a few posts back, "Ok let me clear something up here so you all can settle down, my female has knee trouble like almost all yorkies will or do already have her knee pops out of joint which causes her legs to go out she has had this since she was little it is not bad on her nor does it hurt my vet says it is very comin in this breed they pop out so much even when not PG that she has wore out the joint so now they are more out then in most of the time. "

So, which is it? Did it pop out so much even when not PG that she wore out the joint, or "only did this while pg no other time does her legs give out..."

So, now, did the vet xray your yorkies legs/knees/hips? Did the vet really give a full evaluation? It is hard to know what to believe when the story changes from post to post. I can't understand how you can say they are not that bad, when you also say they are more out of joint than in. And it is NOT true that most Yorkies have this condition. Reputable breeders ensure any dog appearing in their lines with this condition are NOT bred and the defect is NOT passed on.

And some wonder why Megansmomma might be getting a little frustrated and not trying to be all nicey nice with advice that is falling on deaf ears? This reminds me of another thread going on right now........ before you stick up for someone, it is best to really be sure they are on the up and up.

[nanahas3]

Only wanted to ask the OP a question since I know very little yet about all this. Are you planning on having her spayed now? I hope so she is such a tiny we sure wouldnt want more accidents.

[hugz4all4]

Originally Posted by nanahas3

Only wanted to ask the OP a question since I know very little yet about all this. Are you planning on having her spayed now? I hope so she is such a tiny we sure wouldnt want more accidents.

She stated in one of her post that she had the mom scheduled to be spayed in 4 weeks.

[phfgkl]

LOL I'm still confused about her losing a gray one. I thought all yorkies were born black, unless they were a chocolate or a parti.

[Woogie Man]

I see the OP has been suspended and also one of her posts deleted. I do understand why but think it's unfortunate that so many threads here lately are being driven by tone rather than content. As I stated before, if the OP has any specific questions about raising the pups, she may contact me. Since she is suspended and will not be able to PM, if she is reading these posts, she may e-mail me at jaydub12@gmail.com.

[heatherm0890]

why was she suspended?

[tammy8833]

Gray yorkie baby - sounds like she had a blue born you can google it for more info it happens