:thumbup:

WOW IT IS GETTING NASTY IN THERE!

Now this is from an outsiders point of view, i dont know any of the members who are fosters or affiliated with this rescue group.
I would like to say, I am a huge advocate to rescues groups and when ANYONE ever asks about getting a dog of any kind, rescue is the first word that comes out of my mouth. I have tons of respect for individuals or bring these rescues in to there home in hopes one day that they will find forever homes.

But i have to say, I am heart broken about what i read tonight on this thread. My question is the same as Quickslivers'.
Where does the line need to be crossed when rescuing puppy mill puppies, if any?

We tell people till we are blue in the face, NEVER BUY FROM PET STORES, even though, they look sad, or sick, or lonely. Because we honestly know, that if we go with our heart and not with our head, and purchase that puppy, it will only make room for the next puppy.

We all know that the auction puppies rescued are from bybs or puppymillers. But isn't purchasing these poor things the same as purchasing from pet stores? Are you not still giving money to these horrible people, regardless the amount of money, be it $100 or $.01 To them, any profit is profit, and they are just making room for the next, that why auctions are big success for them. They still make something on the dog that nobody wanted. They couldnt care less if it went to a rescue group or a sausage factory as long as they didnt have a total lose of profit.

I hope that ANY rescue who is trying to save auctions, please reconsider making a very difficult decision not to do this, because the bottom line is, its still supporting the bad people who are abusing animals to make a quick buck. The problem of puppy mills and brokers will not just go away, but animal lovers should do all they can not to support them in anyway. But if any rescue or individual does choose to rescue from auctions, i think they should know consciously, that they are contributing to the problem.

You know, I can see a difference in degree between buying a puppy from a pet store and buying a breed dog at an auction. Puppies presumably have a better chance of getting a good home, and even dogs in shelters probably had a nice life at one point. Buying a dog like Sasha (the little dog on PetFinder with the awful skin condition) and giving her some kind of life outside a cage is understandable.

There clearly some danger in thinking this way, though. Paying hundreds of dollars for a dog at an auction seems like all kinds of wrong. I can see how this could be a slippery slope. The emotion of an auction, helpless dogs, the need to get some young, cute dogs to pay for expensive vet bills....

I wonder if there is trouble even with just taking a miller's breed stock for free. I can't imagine that a miller would work with a rescue that turns around and reports them. Can you really stay completely clean? Does anyone know the answer to this?

There also remains the question of animals that die in shelters locally because you went somewhere somewhere else to find dogs. The goal of every rescue should be to eventually make itself obsolete, correct? As people have said, if you have no dogs in your area, this is a *good* thing, and if there is money to spend, it should be used getting dogs in other areas of the country. However, any kind of organization works to perpetuate itself, so it looks like there could be a conflict of interest here.

In any case, buying at auctions is a dicey issue, even if you believe it does more good than harm. I think rescues should be upfront about this and acknowledge the obvious moral hazard.

I just wanted to make note for everyone. OKYR HAS indeed filed for its 501(c)3 papers. It was filed back in Aug or Sept I believe. Michelle has been in constant contact with them as to the status, it is in process.

Sick to my stomach
 

AMEN! I am absolutely sick to my stomach from reading this. It seems as though the purpose of the comments is more to damage or maybe the real intent is to shut down or destroy OKYR. I am deeply saddened by this.There will always be 2 sides for discussion about auctions.

I think this thread was very informative. It lets everyone know how okyr feels about going to auctions and they can then determine if they would like to support them.

I just want to say tht I love all of the points everyone has made. Thanks. It is a validative thread.

You're right there are 2 sides for this discussion. As long as rescues buy from auctions the breeders are still selling their dogs, plain and simple. The breeders know the rescues attend the auctions and the breeders are just supplying the demand of yorkies for rescues. In other words, rescues are part of the problem.

It's a shame because rescues can't purchase every auction dog out there and so some of those very dogs the breeders are supplying for rescues will also end up as breeders bought by the few breeders that attend the auctions . But then if you're a rescue that buys auction dogs, I guess that's a good thing for you, it just re-supplies the rescue with more dogs.

Darling Jen, We can't stop them...Please honey we know u care for all those lil yorkies...Please Please its a ugly world with ugly people...Let it go for anothe day ...This Day in time will not do it....
Sheila

I'm glad this topic was posted, it is very interesting to me to hear that there are "reputable" rescues that do buy from auctions. I don't agree with it, but if it is known information so that those who do donate can make a decision with thier own feelings on this in mind then "it is what it is".

There should not be ANY secrets in any type of group that is supported by public donations. EVER

I can't believe the verocity that some people came on this post with in defense, in the beginning of this thread I did read what rescue organization was named, not once did I feel they were being slandered in any way. It wasn't until the petty posts with bickering started that I realized that maybe this rescue isn't exactly on the up and up

I think if there's any pressure from this thread on OKYR, it is to be more open about its actions and perhaps stop buying at auctions. I can't imagine that anyone on a yorkie lovers forum would want to shut down a rescue.

Clearly there is some bad blood between the people directly involved here, but for most of us reading, it's not about one specific rescue.

Agree.:thumbup:

You are so right! I think it has been mentioned throughout this thread that in no way is this meant to bash the volunteers, donors, fosters or the actual rescue itself.

In today's society it is hard to put trust in anyone or any organization. This is the world of corrupt & dishonest people. You can only hope and pray that the people that you are dealing with are going to be honest and open with the runnings of such an important organization.

I do think it is important to "name" these organizations. It does give the donor the important information needed in deciding if this is an organization that they want their hard earned dollars to go to. I would like to know the same of the rescues in my area and all over. It just happens that the Oklahoma rescue was named because it was the one known for going to the auctions.

Sheila, thank you. I do appreciate and understand what you're saying. And, after this I'm sure I will sleep easier at night, knowing that what has been going on is exposed now.

I completely agree with your statement about secrecy within a charitable organization....and that also was one of my concerns with OKYR mgmt.

You're so right!

OKYR is a good organization and today we are working to get 3 out of shelters. With all of us working full time jobs it is so hard to get to the shelters in time. Pray that we save 3 today from shelters and who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Thank you Jen for having the courage to expose such things.I was naive and applad at the idea that this would and does happen.Yes with you Jen we all got a lesson; in what we really expect from our rescue donation.I'm a very shy person and don't really stand up and speak out when someting is unpopular..I admire you honey..I don't know that I could have ....Thanks you and you have every reason to be proud of yourself....I appreciate you more than I can say....:thumbup: God Bless you,

Sheila

Contact was made with the person in Oklaholma who is putting her Biewers and Tri colored Yorkies in the Missouri auction on consignment. It was found out that the Biewers are 6 weeks old. Now, I was under the wrong impression. I was thinking that adult breeding Biewers were in this auction which I supported in getting out. Now I am suddenly upset that any rescue would go in there and buy up puppies from a breeder who cannot sell them. The auctions that I am familiar with are the ones where bitches are used over and over and over until they cannot be bred again and are at deaths door. Those are the ones that need to be rescued. This woman that we contacted was a real shocker and those are the ones that need to go into the hall of shame!

This doesn't surprise me in the least. OKYR has never been about buying the older used up breeders at auction, they've always bought as many puppies as they could.

This past 6 months the bottom has fallen out of puppy sales and things are not looking up any time soon with the economy not doing well. Breeders are still going to make money, even if it means selling dogs at auction - it's just another avenue for them to sell. May be for less money but hey - if they are getting less for them - they'll just produce more - after all they've never been about quality - it's always about making money.

So any rescue that attends this auction and buys dogs is only perpetuating the misery for more dogs down the line.....it's a crying shame!!!!!

I've seen this at the other end of the puppy mill cycle, the huge number of dogs being dumped at shelters due to the economy. Maybe ultimately this could be a good thing - if no one goes to auctions, maybe that puts some millers out of business.

Ouch....that hurts. How could you say something like that, and then post later that you received literally THOUSANDS of dollars JUST in monetary donations. I know I for one have been a part of sending blankets to OKYR as well as donated money at last year's Kansas City Meet-up that went to OKYR, so I am not happy to hear this....to me, it shows immaturity and ungratefulness...

Why can this not be posted publicly? I still do not understand? I am not trying to add "fuel" to any "fire", but I really think if you all want to make yourselves look better, the only way to do so is post information such as this....

What a horribly sad situation :(

I donated products to the organization as well and never received an acknowledgement, much less a simple thank you until I contacted a Rescue Member almost a month later to find out if the products had been received.

I know that I not support this rescue in the future.

:thumbup: Agreed. I remember LOTS of donations from YT members.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...ttendee-s.html

I am in just shocked about the whole thing, and some of the people that are doing what they are doing in this thread, you really opened my eyes up. People I thought I knew, well I guess I don't. :eek::(

This post was quoted from your linked thread.

I regret to inform you of just who was helped with this money - the puppy millers. This money was given during the time of the 2 auctions in which OKYR bought at least 20 dogs, most of which were puppies or younger dogs - not older, used up breeders.

As disturbing as purchasing any dog from an auction...the puppy news is even more so. Buying puppies insures the "breeder" will continue on pumping out puppies. :mad:

Since I've received pm's regarding this...I'll post it publically.

The biewers purchased were paid entirely with donations given from the women on a biewer forum, NOT personal funds.

Did they know what they were giving towards? :confused:

Just to clarify these were donations for the 1st two male biewers. Kelz had posted a thread on board, so yes they knew.

You're right. Rescues are providing the "market" for many of these puppies.

Most breeders are going to get on average $50 when they sell a puppy to a broker. With the pet store market being down, they are now making part of their money by providing dogs at auctions for rescues to buy. It makes no difference to the breeder if the broker buys one for $50 or if a rescue buys one for $50 - to them it's the same money!

When they (OKYR) go at the end of March and in April to buy these Biewers they are guaranteeing the breeders will produce more. So, all of the Biewer lovers here, you can be rest assured the Biewer will be part of the auctions from this point forward, just like the yorkies.

I am for one hoping that throughout this thread that this rescue and others will reconsider the way they are conducting their business. It is a shame for any rescue organization to support these auctions. You can claim that it is all about the rescue but any person that buys that needs to rethink what the definition of a rescue is. It has been simply put on here several times... if you stop buying from these auctions, the supply/demand will go down. It is insane to think that this or any rescue would be buying up puppies from these auctions. I can only imagine the look on the adult (used up dogs) faces as they are passed up for the bundle of puppies. To me its disgusting and disappointing!