Everyone-PLEASE-read and THINK ABOUT....
 

I have a moral dilemma. And I am sure that this is going to really cost me some grief in the long run but I am prepared for that. Just want to start by saying-I think it is truly only fair that anyone supporting a rescue knows what is going on. They should know where all funds are going, where the rescues are coming from, what are the main goals and interests of the rescue, what is the gain or profit overall? :confused:
This is why I joined a rescue to help out awhile back. I have not been active with it for sometime. Every so often I will access the forum to check on the status of the furbabies, see if anything is local, etc.
Well, I get on the forum the yesterday and I see a post RAVING about going to get dogs at an auction in Missouri. The excitement is overwhelming and went on about the number of Biewers and Parti's that are going to be available at the auction! (Mind you I am in Oklahoma and this is a day long trip at the least). It went on and people wanted to go to help out but it was decided that it could cause the rescue to be "found" out. So it was decided that 2 were going.
Here is the link to the auction:
Auction 2

Take a Look-Plenty to see.
Now in all of this excitement and hoopla another thread was started about a yorkie mix-schorkie-to something of this effect:

I think she is cute... asking $100 rehome though... :

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pet/1064930909.html

5 month old female Shorkie named Sophie. We really need to get rid of her, We love her but we cant have pets at our apartment. She is very friendly. Loves to play, and loves people. She knows some commands like Sit and Go lay down. She is potty trained and well kept. We are asking $100 rehoming fee... Comes with dog food and potty pads, and food dish. Anymore questions call 899 6160 or email. thanks
NOT A SINGLE RESPONSE!!!!! NONE!!!
Was she priced to high?? Was she not good enough?? We can't say there was no room-everyone was wanting a Biewer or Parti?? Why?? Do they bring in more money?? Just to say we did?? What about those old scruffs out there?
And yes, to some of the members credit they did bring this up. They are happy with just yorkies.
So ask yourself-Where are your donations going? Is this ethical? What is a rescue? Is buying at an auction making more room for the next slave baby-just like a pet store??
Please-think hard!!! Know your people and your organizations. Do your homework. And don't be afraid to right a wrong. :animal-pa

I think it took a lot of courage to post your feelings on this, and I commend you for it. :)

I am really disturbed at the amount of brokers/millers-posing-as-rescues I'm hearing of lately. But honestly, I am also very concerned hearing about some rescues who are perhaps *not* rescuing those who are potentially the least adoptable, or most in need - instead, it seems like they're rescuing dogs they are most "attracted to" or whatever you want to call it.

In the case you're mentioning, WHY would a rescue use its money to take a DAY'S trip to buy biewers/partis when there are yorkies desperate to be rescued on their local Craigs List, newspaper, or wherever? Why not rescue those on the kill-list at their local shelter, if there are kill shelters in the area?

I don't know what to really say...other than my initial feeling is one of real disappointment. I'm not saying those biewers/partis don't also deserve to be rescued, however, if there are needy animals in this Rescue's local area - why not save them first rather than driving to save others while concurrently supporting the animal auction business?

Call me crazy, but this doesn't feel quite right to me. Am I missing something about the ways rescues should conduct themselves? :confused:

Greed
 

It all comes down to greed! In my opinion, a rescue would become more of a broker if attending and buying from auctions. You might as well be working right along side with the puppy mills your buying from. A rescue is supposed to be just that ~ a rescue group. However, if you are able to buy lets say, a biewer for $65 or so at an auction then turn around and sell it anywhere from $200 - $500 then that would be a broker. You are making a profit not off setting the costs. I think it is understandable to charge what you rescue the pup for, the vet bills and throw in a $20 or so to cover gas... thats it. Sadly, when you get too many hands in the pot, greed starts showing its ugly face! It is irresponsible to take advantage of other's kind hearts & donations for your own disgusting greed! Those involved should be ashamed of themselves and this so called organization needs to be not only exposed but shut down as well!

Boy you hit the nail on the head! Greed is the main theme of our world nowadays, is it not? I will never understand that mentality.

Thank you Andi for having the courage to make this post. A few months back there was a thread discussing the practice of rescues buying dogs at auction. At the time I defended the practice with what I thought were acceptable and correct reasons. Even then though, I knew what my heart was telling me, and it was *buying auction dogs only helps perpetuate the practice of bad breeders*.

I agree that rescues should operate under great transparency and I believe that most national rescues do operate with such. However some of the smaller rescues don't hold themselves to that standard.

It's a crying shame when a dog that is a legitimate rescue is overlooked simply because a rescue desires a more profitable rescue prospect or their own personal preferred breed.

I found the below very interesting and hope those rescues that do buy from auctions will take the time to read and think about it.

Small Paws isn't going to dog auctions right now, and we are also hoping that other rescuers don't go to these auctions and bid on the Bichons. This is why.

In the beginning for the first 7 1/2 years, we raised every cent we could, and bought every Bichon at auction that we could afford and some that we couldn't. It caused the millers breed even more Bichons to bring to auction for rescue and we knew this.
The good news was that with so many Bichons being for sale at these auctions, prices did begin to fall. It's the rule of supply and demand. Too much supply and consumer prices fall. Too little supply, and consumer prices raise.

Broker price, the amount being paid to the millers per Bichon puppy, was around $400.00 just 18 months ago.
Then we decided to see if the Bichon wholesale market, would react like any other commodity. If one of the major players pulled out, would the market fall?

We made a concentrated and calculated effort to try to control the Bichon wholesale market. We pulled out quickly, suddenly, and totally, and we did see a crash in the wholesale market!
Broker prices for Bichon puppies fell from $400.00 to only $40.00. Bichons began selling for nearly nothing at the dog auctions, in many cases down to $5.00 or LESS, and in some cases no one would bid on them at all. This caused those Bichons to be sent to Small Paws for free.

The millers began giving their Bichon stock to us in droves, about a year ago. We are getting more Bichons out of the mills for free, now, than we ever did by going in and buying them at dog auctions. "Bichons are not worth raising," we are seeing the millers post on their message boards.

Our goal is to continue to make these Bichons WORTHLESS to the millers so they will stop breeding them and selling them to the pet shops.

The numbers of Bichons that we see in pet shops are way down from what we saw when we first came onto the rescue scene back in 1998.

Presently, we are taking in between 40-60 puppy mill Bichons, each and every month, 12 months a year, strictly from the commercial kennels.

This is on top of the 40-50 other Bichons that we take in from kill shelters, owners passing away or going into nursing homes, and of course from owners who can no longer care for them.

Small Paws continues to be the leader in the country in breed rescue. We presently have several other breed rescue groups interning with Small Paws, so that they can learn to do for their breed, what we have done for the Bichons.

We hope to continue our work in the commercial kennels across our country. Though it is a difficult thing to do, we ask that other rescue groups please not bid on Bichons at this time, as it would only serve to undo all of the work we have already done. Sincerely, Robin Pressnall

Small Paws® Rescue

It's called cherry picking and it is just is not right. Some rescues will not take the dogs they know will not get adopted. It might be because they are larger or they might have health issues. IMO rescues should open their doors to the little ones that have no hope. The cute little ones in the shelters are highly sought after and will be adopted. It is the sick, old and weak ones that are in the most need. Take a look at this little girl. She was a mill surrender and this rescue took her in, they are spending a great deal of money trying to get her healthy. This is what rescues should be doing.
Adopt a Yorkshire Terrier Yorkie: Sasha: Petfinder
This little girls picture should be hung outside of every pet shop in the US! This is were your little TEACUP Yorkie came from :mad: She is the truth in the horrible work of mills in this country. It breaks my heart to see pictures like this.

Shame on the miller that try to say they are a rescue because people are getting wise what a puppy mill is and the condition these little one live in. :mad: It is becoming a real problem and there are plenty of people out there falling for this dirty little trick.

I volunteer and have Truman my foster. A lot of the smaller Yorkie rescue have broken off from the very large Yorkie rescues. This does not necessarily make them bad rescues. I volunteer and foster for Yorkie Haven Rescue and they are wonderful. :D If you take a look at their site you will see all of the little ones and each one has a very different story. Some are seniors, some are young, some have medical issues and we even have 2 litters of puppies with their moms. Even they have stories that are heartbreaking. YHR never cherry picks, they look to help all of the pups that truly need help. Just about every one is either a surrender or from a kill shelter. If I didn't believe in what they do and stand for I would never volunteer with them. I was involved in another rescue and did not like what was going on so I left and joined a rescue whose beliefs were the same as mine.

I have seen some stories on YT about rescues and it makes my so angry that some of these people have been duped into thinking they were dealing with a legitimate rescue. They go into wanting to help and then are left with bad feelings, unaltered dogs, dogs that have been released too soon to their forever home. It is just not right and gives all rescues a bad name.

Just want to thank everyone for their responses.

I am under the belief that rescues who attend these auctions go specifically to pull out the breed they are concentrating on so there will be no more future litters produced. If the dog they save is spayed or neutered and than adopted out at a much higher price because of the demand which brings in more funds to their rescue than that would make sense. However, I participated in one of these rescues where many small breed dogs were pulled and the rescue really had no money for medical bills and relied heavily on the people who were willing to foster these dogs. The small breed dog most in demand was the Yorkie, so none of those where available to me. I remember asking which ones would be the least desirable that no one would foster. One was a female manchester terrier with a hugh tumor under her belly and the other was a chinese crested but actually was the powder puff but had an extreme skin infection. Those are the two I took and after getting them straightened out, I kept them.

So there you have it. The breed that is most desirable and in demand is the one the rescue is going to try and get the most money for. I have seen it first hand with a whole circuit of rescue groups accross the country. My only interest was to help but did I get an eye opener.:eek:

It makes sense to me when a rescue will purchase a pregnant female to get the puppy making machine from the rescue. But what bothers me is when you see just puppies at some rescues and no a regular basis. To me there are HUGE RED FLAGS all over that picture! Most likely this is a mill looking to make money while posing as a rescue. :mad:The puppies had to have come from somewhere and the mom is who needs to be out of that horrible place.

If a rescue has an occasional litter of puppies that is totally different than puppies only. Another thing to be aware of is that the rescue has a 501c not for profit registration. A good rescue will spay/neuter, fit the dog to the home and take in dogs with all types of needs.

This is exactly how I thought a rescue should conduct themselves. :thumbup:

:thumbup: Good Post Jody. We just went through this with a so called rescue that advertised on Petfinder. I posted about it here. This particular rescue was buying puppies that were being auctioned off online through a site you had to register with. They were charging I think like $750 for their Yorkie pups they got and that did not include a spay or neuter. We did our homework and got them red handed and reported them to Petfinder. They have since been pulled from advertising there. IF ANYONE SEES a rescue that is less then reputable you can report them to Petfinder and they will investigate and have them removed. A true rescue will take the older or sicker dogs from an auction before they take the puppies. Their goal is to get the ones that are in the worse shape out first. Buying pups from an auction is not rescuing - it is just keeping the cycle going. Great post Jody. Elaine

I agree with alot of what the above posters have said. And with jen about the transparency of a rescue. It is hard to post everything I feel about the situation and not feel like I am rambling on. I am sad that gas money, time, auction bids can be placed but a 100$ rehoming fee cannot for a schorkie girl that needed a home. And the list goes on.......:animal-pa

But-this is how we learn. No one is perfect and we learn and then it is our job to teach and protect others. Those furbabies are first. But buying from an auction is just as bad as buying from a puppy store. Just getting a better discount. :thumbdown

Btw, I'm curious which rescue is conducting themselves in this way - is it one that we know of here at YT? Or, would you rather not say? (I understand if you don't)

okyr.

Thank you Andi, I know this took a lot for you to post and I know what you've posted is the truth, it's one of the reasons I could no longer support them.

Thank you for making people aware of this, it's clearly an important issue. I've also received a PM from someone who is completely outside of all of this - and this person also suspected that OKYR was the rescue in question; it appears they are also correct.

I'm guessing it was pretty tough for you to name them, but I think it's the right thing to do - thank you.

I just found this thread about an hour ago. I've been debating whether or not to post. I just don't know what to think. I adopted the biewer named 'Talon' from the November thread below. Talon, now re-named Jordy, is my sweetheart and it hurts to hear that maybe I was helping the puppy mills instead of helping a 'rescue' like I believed I was. I do know that now he has a momma who loves him, healthy meals, regular baths and all the playtime/naptime he wants. I do not regret bringing Jordy into my home at all. What do you all think? :cry:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ghlight=biewer

Great thread, I wish there was more the average person could do to check out a rescue. I know of one person who wanted to start a rescue for "teacups" or tiny yorkies, and I got the feeling it was just so she could find a free pet for herself, and sell the others. How hard is it to place a tiny? Can anyone call themselves a rescue? Aren't there any laws or regulations, if donations are made?

I think you are a great momma. I remember when Talon and Zeus came to the rescue. They came from an auction-and the link above is posted with so much excitement. WHEN-they were purchased from an auction for a minimal figure and then sold. AND-I don't remember ever seeing posts with such excitement for the yorkies, or the mixes that came through the rescue. What about them? What is this all about? Who's got the best rescue dogs?? :confused:
I think you did a good thing-but it is all in what we learn and what we take from it. You would never trade your baby for the world, but you would know for sure where the next one came from and look at the :animal-paBIGGER :animal-papicture. That baby that came from the auction made a place for another baby. And so the cycle goes on. I am sorry I didn't step forward sooner. This was hard. And I would hate for owners to feel guilty. We are started somewhere.

:eek:
That is insane too!! But-I am familiar with something similar. :(

Talking about a rescue, especially a specific one can be very tough so I commend Andrea for posting this. I struggled with whether or not to reply because I used to be/still sort of am affiliated with this organization. I originally PMed Andrea but I think I have to step in and share my thoughts.

First off, I want to say that I don't think that rescues have bad intentions when they buy from auction. The idea is that they are saving dogs from future puppymills and bybs by pulling them out of breeding stock. HOWEVER, after reading some posts on this thread and rethinking the situation, I do agree that it shouldn't be done. I don't think this alone makes OKYR (or any other rescue that does this) a BAD rescue. It simply makes them misunderstood. They are not trying to buy discount puppies and turn around and re-sell them at a higher price, if that's what some of you are implying. I think they are misguided in their attempt to save as many dogs as possible but I am optimistic that they do so with pure hearts.

I won't comment on the issue of excitement towards biewers/partis vs. other rescues.

While I don't agree with the way OKYR is run or some of the things they do, I do want you all to keep in mind that OKYR is trying their best to do what they say and that is save dogs. I know this thread brought up a touchy subject and at first glance it may be easy to get angry and bash them/other rescues, but for every little bad thing they do, so many more good things happen. The have saved probably over a hundred dogs (probably more... I don't keep track) since the start of the rescue just under a year ago. Don't dismiss them completely because of this. Don't forget that OKYR has made a difference in the lives of many dogs and many new owners, as I'm sure many rescues have. I don't want you all to feel like they are a fraud and/or feel guilty for supporting them.

Hopefully they will see this thread and rethink their actions. If not, they will probably lose a lot of support but that's something they'll just have to consider. I agree that rescues should be transparent and held accountable for what they do. I feel a lot of times non-profits lack any real structure or organization and a lot of things fall through the cracks. This is an issue I struggled with during my active time with them.

Very good post Diana. I agree that this was never meant to be a bashing of any sort. And I apologize if anyone is taking it that way. I just think that sometimes it gets cloudy and maybe things need to be brought back into perspective. It is about saving those that would never be saved. They have done this as well.

I wanted to add that when I adopted Jordy, everyone I spoke with really seemed to care about the animals. I had to fill out a detailed application, answer questions, interview, etc. They seemed to make an honest effort to ensure that I would provide a good, safe home. As I said previously, I in no way regret getting Jordy. The adoption process was, for me, pleasant and friendly. I have recommended this rescue to others and I have to continue thanking them for my sweet little man! This post has been a lesson well learned!

You made good points in your whole post - and I don't disagree with much of what you said. However, when there are probably *thousands* of dogs in need of rescue right outside their front door, WHAT is the point of taking a day's trip to go pick up the biewers?

I'm sorry, but to me - that is just not in the spirit of a true rescue organization. Am I just off-base in thinking this is odd or the intent is "off"?

No you are not off-base. I agree completely, which is why I have reconsidered my involvement with them. I just didn't want people to get so caught up in bashing that they forgot completely about the dogs that OKYR has rescued and is still rescuing. Sometimes threads like this get lost in hysteria. I didn't want it to be blown out of proportion and for people to think that they weren't rescuing dogs right outside their front door AT ALL, because that is not true - they DO rescue a lot of dogs locally. Maybe someone from OKYR will come clarify and answer our questions.

Is it still considered rescuing when the real excitement of a group is generated over the possibility of owning one of these dogs?

I didn't realize rescues purchsed dogs at auctions. I find this very confusing, though I understand the idea of purchasing dogs that will otherwise be destroyed. It really seems like dancing with the devil, so to speak. Buying ANY animal from a puppy mill puts money in the miller's pocket, and this is presumably going to be re-invested in the mill. This seems like the same logic of "saving" puppies in pet stores - yes, you save that one, but you help the cycle continue.

Even cornering the market and then pulling out seems to be an "ends justifying the means" strategy. By cornering the market, you push prices up, and cause more dogs to be bred. Then when the market collapses, at least some dogs will be destroyed. And I don't think this guarantees that bichons won't be bred anymore, does it? It just means that the millers will move to a more popular breed until bichons come back into style.

What am I missing here?

The puppy mill problem seems very solvable to me. We need a cultural shift that makes it unacceptable to buy a dog or cat from a pet store. Kaboom. This happened with "dolphin friendly" tuna fish. It can happen for puppy mills.

Certainly not the best use of funds....

Good points and I do understand what you're saying -- and I am grateful for the dogs they've rescued. I do hope they understand why this is bothering many of us, bc it truly detracts any good they may do, which is sad. :(

Would like an answer to that too. Good question.

I hope someday we get there - I wish it was tomorrow. :)