My only involvement with anyone affiliated with the rescue in any way has been with Diana, and though I don't know about the organization in general, I can truly say she got involved with a heart to save and place as many dogs as she could, and I was optimistic the whole organization was like her, though I know after reading this that might not entirely be the case.

I have read a lot of the posts, and I think buying at auctions isn't such a good deal for rescue things to do. However, whether or not they are making a profit by selling dogs, I think that the main point is that they still are saving them. Though some intentions might not be right on track 100 percent, the action is still important. And though they aren't saving thousands, they have saved many little pups since they started. I'm not defending or bashing them, because like I said, all I know about it is what I read here, but I feel like its kind of like when you give a homeless person money. You did a good thing for someone, what he chooses to do with the money (drugs, booze, etc.) is not your responsibility, because you gave with a pure heart to help this person. I feel that saving a Yorkie through the rescue is the same way- you give them the money with the intention of saving the Yorkie, if the rescue is making a profit or mismanaging the funds, yeh that totally sucks, but you saved the Yorkie because you love the little pup and want to give them a good home. Like I said, I'm not an advocate for either side, just wanted to share my thoughts.

I followed your link to the auction and have been looking around and I am hoping more people do the same. There is some very interesting links within the page you posted starting with this from Petland:

http://www.kennelspotlight.com/PETLAND_FIGHTS_BACK_.pdf

Well said, its horrible.... its so sad that this really happens...

:O The post/ad has not now been flagged for removal.

Some rescues do, others don't purchase from the auctions. And, if it were to purchase just those that would otherwise be destroyed, I wouldn't have any problem with the practice. But that wasn't the case with this specific rescue.


No, it isn't the best use of funds, especially when there are dogs within the rescue that have medical needs and/or rehab/training needs that are not dealt with.

Foster MOM for OKYR
 

First let me say that I have read this and sitting with my mouth hanging open. But let me also speak from the point of the foster mom loving and caring for the Yorkies that come thru this rescue. I cannot on this page even begin to tell you my experiences just since I became a foster mom in July '08. I would have to write a book for that. We may not agree with everything that goes on but the bottom line is do we agree with saving as many yorkies as we can? My answer to that is "Yes!" My sister is the one that posted on our forum "I prefer yorkies!" and I feel the same as her. I am not familiar with the Biewer breed but would not want one not to be saved. Your mouth would drop if I told you how many yorkies my sister fosters at one time and me too due to the lack of foster mommas! I cannot say no to not saving and caring for a yorkie if there is not a foster home for it. And yes, she and I were the ones that were going to lose 2 days pay to go to Missouri to rescue and foster from one of the puppy mill busts had they needed us. But due to the National attention that it got HSMO didn't need our services. There are some hearts into this organization that ARE for the yorkies. If we don't fight for them who will. I drove to Tulsa to do a home inspection myself and place one for adoption. I was so attached to this little guy, that was originally a stray in Enid, that I cried all the way home. Might I add that is a 2 hour drive from where I live. He was malnourished when I got him but healthy and happy when placed in his new forever home. On my drive home I got a call from my daughter, who I talked into fostering, crying her eyes out that one she had fostered and just adopted out on Friday was lost from his new owner in Enid. Darby was a puppy mill rescue. I can't tell you on paper the troubles little Mr. Darby had but my daughter had given him 6 months of her love, time, and affection to be ready to have a forever home. We drove 1 1/2 hours on Sunday to help look for him. I have made posters, called vets, animal shelters and posted in papers and other free listings. We have even gone so far as to seek the advice of a pet PI. We will stop at nothing. After the weekend I just explained, the laundry wasn't done, the house not cleaned and no meals cooked for my DH. But to save a YORKIE, we did all we did for the love of the yorkie and OKYR!!! There are some posts on here that can vouch for everything that some of us do. I don't agree with everything that my job decides to do but I do a good job at what I was hired to do. (That is my full time paying job) I feel as though I'm rambling...I guess I want you all to be sure that there are some of us that have stayed involved with OKYR to save another YORKIE. I have adopted 2 of my fosters because of the health issues that they have and I wanted to be sure that the rest of their life they would be taken care of. I am so picky about the homes that my fosters go to I insist on doing most of the work myself.

Maybe going to auctions is not all right...but if they save another one, be it yorkie or Beiwer, another furbaby is saved. I understand what most of this is about. I'm not sure that I will ever understand when you draw the line from saving one off the streets, in a shelter or from a puppy mill/auction. Believe you me, between my sister, my daughter and myself we look on Craigslists numerous times a day and email them ourselves. If I ever know of one, a yorkie or mix, needing a home it is always known that my house is available if no one elses is! We have tons of people on our forum but only a handful of fosters. I don't understand that either. There are a whole lot of things that I don't understand but I do know that the yorkies at OKYR that are in 3 homes whose doors are always open to another yorkie are being loved, fed, and groomed for their forever home.

I want EVERYONE to know that the YORKIES at OKYR are being taken care of, loved and prepared for good loving forever homes with all of my heart and soul. I can only speak for myself but I know there are others. I know for a fact that there are 3 of us because they are my family!

I wish someone from OKYR mgmt would come on and answer, but I don't expect that to happen. They repeatedly ignored the many questions I would ask on their own forum. And, when my questions got insistent it was threatened the forum would be shut down.

You , your sister and daughter are true angels and have always gone above and beyond to help out the OKYR dogs. That's another sad note to this, is that there are some good people within the rescue and they shouldn't be blamed at all, just the mgmt seems to have lost it's focus.

This is a very controversial topic with some rescuers. There are many who do this and justify it every way they can; but I have yet to buy into their philosophy.
I can find at least one yorkie in a shelter on any given day in Texas, so it escapes me why anyone would drive to Missouri to get mill pups and yet there are two groups here in TX that I know do that regularly. One look at some of the websites and you see over and over the words: "puppy mill" and "breeder release".
It totally boggles my mind and also just frustrates the heck out of me. We are being inundated with yorkies and our group is so full. I cannot get another rescue to help because they are full...yet their pups are mostly from the above mentioned.
I have had this conversation with two rescues on different occasions and have never gotten them to understand how they are leaving pups to be euthanized in shelters. Their response is always that the pups they get would also be euthanized.
I have given up trying to explain it because they simply are going to do what they do anyway.
Yes, they are saving dogs....I just think that they are enabling the not so reputable breeders and mills to continue doing what they do.

Oh my...sounds like another group I know of. So sad when people feel they do not have to answer legitimate questions.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Well, I work. So, at the risk of getting reported to my employer I will respond.

Yes, we go to auction. Auctions are a dumping ground puppymills. Other breeders replenish their stock and medical research companies come there to pick up dogs for their studies. OKYR has gone to auctions in the past and will go in the future. I do not believe that it was excitement as much as dismay at how many and what breeds are going to be there. I know for a fact that is not how I feel.

There is a fine line between paying enough to get the dog out of the situation and making the breeder profitable. The breeder has to pay for every dog that they bring. We try to make sure they do not profit or profit very little from any dogs we get. We often pay more to get them out of a kill shelter.

Most times we go, we come back from auction with 5-8 year dogs that have been breeding all of their life. We promise each and everyone of them, that they do not have to have another litter, they do not have to live in a cage, they do not have to drink spring water with coccidia.

We promise them that they will be loved, they can sleep in a bed and have a blanket.

So, yes we go to auctions. We also save, dogs from shelters, the streets, owner surrenders who can not afford medical care for their dogs.

Yes, our Foster Moms, can adopt a dog from us just like anyone that fills out an application and passes the application process.


I am asking admin to close this thread.

I challenge each and everyone to go start a rescue. When you do, you can run it the way you want. We have rescued nearly 100 dogs in 6 months and gave them a better life.

I would have to agree this with thought process as well. It is supply and demand. If rescues would stop going to dog auctions and "buying freedom" for auction dogs then their would be less demand. Which in turn would allow the rescue to focus their attention on the shelters that are putting dogs down every day. To a mill, these dogs are a supply and demand commodity and if a rescue is causing the demand to increase by pruchasing from their supply they will supply it. This is a vicious cycle on both ends.

Their response is always that the pups they get would also be euthanized.
But a mill can only euthanize so many because they have a much more limited supply and they also CONTROL their supply. If there is no demand from the mill to breed yorkies for example they will cut back on the amount of breeding females they keep. The females might be turned over for free, dropped at a shelter or unfortunately PTS but their supply will then drop because of lack of willingness to purchase. It is all about money to these people.

You never once called me, pmed me or emailed me.

The questions need to be asked before they can be answered.

Sorry Michelle, fortunately you are not admin on this forum and this time the controversy can't be swept under a rug or ignored.

I would encourage YT admin to allow the thread to continue and the truth to be told.

No, I posed my questions and reservations out on the open forum and when things weren't going your way, you threatened to close the forum.

They were - see above.

????
 

Is this the place for this? OKYR never turns away a stray, surrender and we do check every shelter for Yorkies. You know that Jen...you went to the auctions with them. I'm sorry, I just think this could be discussed elsewhere.

Maybe I'm naive, but most rescue organizations I know, rescue, do vaccinations, spay/neuter, micro-chip and place dogs. Yes, they make some money to cover their expenses and allow them to buy food, and make emergency trips to "get" a dog that might be on the kill list or in an auction.

Why is this so controversial? Because puppy millers might be dumpting their puppies in the auctions?? I agree with bans on selling dogs in pet stores. That would eliminate 95% of the puppy mills.

I know that when I have food my dogs don't like, or extra blankets and toys, I take them over to BARC which is an animal rescue and they are always appreciative.

I contribute to any and all fund raisers for the biewers, because the bylaws state the dogs will be spayed and neutered. IMHO if the seller of the biewers to the auctions, or rescues can be identified, they need to be outted....

You're right, I did go to several of the auctions, even though I had reservations. It was wrong to go and I'm sorry I participated when I did.

Lots of people do those things and also buy from pet stores; but once they are aware they do not do it again.
Don't feel badly....you learned from the experience and maybe your story will encourage others not to enable the mills.

Is anybody familiar with this outfit? puppymillrescue Home Page. I have followed this website for years, and I mean years. I cried and cried every time I went on that website and if I was in Missouri, I too would purchase every Biewer I saw in that auction. The mentality of people attending these auctions are different. They are millers and have only one thing in mind, to breed the you know what out of these dogs until it cannot be bred anymore. Study the history of puppymill auctions. Reputable breeders would not sell their dogs to millers but somehow they ended up there and it is now up to the breeders who specialize in their own breed to go in there and get them out. One dog at a time if that is what it takes. And it takes very special people to do this because it is heart breaking. Let me ask you this...how many of you out there attended and animal auction??? If you haven't, do yourself a favor and go to one. Than come back on this forum and say that rescue people should not be at these auctions.

Again... GREED!
 

This is Yorkietalk... this is the perfect place to discuss this matter. I think that those who are involved do need to give answers to the concerns that have been mentioned.

By shutting down this thread it is another way of hiding the truth to some of the practices that organizations such as the mentioned. We all have a common interest here ~ the love of Yorkshires.

I don't think anyone is coming out and saying those who are running this rescue are horrible people. It sounds like to me that everyone involved whether past or present got involved for the sake of helping rescue yorkies, again, for the love of this breed. Sadly, it is true that when a person sees the money to be made with this breed and especially Biewers. Greed comes to play. It may not happen immediately but as time goes on it becomes more addictive... the money that is. It is easy to say that you are providing great homes for them... but at what cost? You are clearing them out in order for the mills to replenish them. Ridiculous! You become a broker and nothing less. Or, on the other side, maybe just taking the trip for your own households... easier & cheaper to buy one there than from a legitimate breeder. Right?

If I see a yorkie, lets say on craigslist being "adopted" out because the owner is in a jam and needs to rehome for a fee and then at the same time I hear of an older yorkie that has medical problems... I would automatically make a decision to save the one that chances are is going to be put down because no one wants to shell out the money to save this dog...hence "rescue"

Taking a full days drive to buy a dog to resell is not a wise rescue move. I don't care how you slice the pie. You are putting money into the mills hands just the same as if you were to go to the petstore. It is irresponsible and very disrespectful to all those who do support the rescue both fostering and monetarily.

Do you really believe that breeders and rescues can stop puppymills by purchasing one dog at a time?
I honestly do not understand that logic; and surely do not understand how you think that reputable breeders' dogs are the ones in the mills being bred.

I have been and while the thought of leaving dogs behind is heartbreaking, there really is no other good solution than to do so. When you buy dogs from the auctions it not only allows the breeder room to breed more dogs, they are also making money. At many of these auctions they are selling dogs for more money than a broker would pay them, so they are actually very profitable for the breeders. The breeders realize this and just breed more dogs. Andi said it best earlier, it's basically like a cheap pet store :(

Now that is interesting indeed. I know of a couple of rescues who say they work with breeders because they don't have yorkies in their area. They say they have a list of adopters waiting for yorkies. I say send those adopters to other states OR send them to a reputable breeder. OR use your donations to obtain yorkies from the areas in need. Why are they wanting to adopt?? To obtain a cheap yorkie?? Or to save one....well, come on down to TX and save one!
My thinking is to take the money donated to save yorkies and fly or drive to TX, OH, FL, or CA and pick up some shelter pups that are in need.
These groups get large donations to fix the problems that the mills refused to pay for. I would prefer doing the above...using the money by getting the shelter pup from other areas where rescue groups are inundated.
If there is a long list of adopters and no yorkies available .. gee, that in my opinion is wonderful! I hope the day comes when I don't see emails over and over and over again with yorkies in shelters. Then, no need for rescue..oh, what a wonderful day!

:thumbup: Agreed. There is no reason why this can't be discussed here. The "shutting down" bit does start to get old.

The only way I can think to kind of answer this is the fact that there are rescues in every state and in some states maybe not enough. If a person is that "desperate" to rescue a yorkie then you would think that yes, they could use their local rescue or simply contact one in another state just as easily to adopt a rescue.

I haven't been on yorkietalk for a few months but can recall several times when Yorkie trains are used to get a yorkie to a new home or foster. This is when I can see the money from the rescue organizations coming in to play. Not for hotel rooms and gas to drive a state away to acquire Yorkies or any other breed.

I think that this is worthy of reading a second time. It makes sense.

I am not sure I understand the greed part. We do not have money, nor do we profit from the rescue. All the adoption fees pay for medical bills, no one gets a salary and everyone in our group pays their own gas and hotel (if necessary). Some of the younger ones help pay the medical bills for the older ones.

The truth is we save yorkies. One at a time. Yes,we have some differences as to which home is best for our dogs.

I said it in my earlier post. We go to auctions, we do not get involved in high bidding, we take the unwanted. We promise the dogs they will have a better life.

I am sorry if some do not agree with this. That is your choice. OKYR does good things for our rescues everyday.

I want to encourage everyone on YT to become a foster parent. start a rescue or donate your time. Do something to help these dogs.

We are doing our best. We do not always agree in how to do it. Everyone has a choice in what they want to support or be a part of.

If I was the dog, I would want OKYR to get me and not leave me there.