And you are wrong about a dog being turned away. I'm aware of one breeder surrender that I ended up turning down because I was told OKYR had no fosters available....I believe this was just after the biewer auction.

:thumbup: quicksilver....for your response..It hit the nail on the head...Thankyou

With all due respect then, why not just go and buy puppies from pet stores? Why not just throw up our hands and say the problem is unsolvable?

If you are truly paying $1 for a dog, then I apologize for blowing up here. But if you are paying any significant percentage of the dog's cost, then the miller is making money. Maybe your money is not going into the miller's revenue, but you are decreasing the operating costs. I have to think this is economical for the millers, because otherwise they wouldn't bring these dogs to auctions. Why bother with the trouble and expense if you are really only saving $1 per dog?

it was not for myself...i got my biewer from a reputable breeder.. we really do not have a huge support system.. in fact we only have one person who i would call a supported to donates every month.. we have had an handful people donate stuff.

i'm done.. you saying all this stuff is like the pot calling the kettle black.. you have done the exact same stuff as i have but you feel that god has forgiven you and that all is good now.. and i can promise you that the AVERAGE for any dog we have.. the vet bill is $200. and my mistake.. we turned away 1 dog out of 100 because we had 20 dogs at the time and you decided not to foster it until one was open.

you love to personally attack me.. just like when you call me on the phone.. you like to belittle me as much as you can.. i'm not perfect.. but i do feel that i am doing my part to help save yorkies and will continue you to do so! SOooooooooooooo go ahead and bash me all you want :D i will just smile and keep on doing what i do!

To everyone who has supported okyr thank you!

Wow - this kind of a slap in the face for ALL of those from YT that have supported OKYR and there have been many. All of the support may not be in monetary form but without all forms of support OKYR would have never had the successes it has.

With the economy hitting everyone our foster homes are very low. And one was not turned away because of any biewer or any auction dog. It was my understanding that we would take your surrender as soon as a foster became available and the apps that we had were worked. We had several local surrenders at that time including 3 from one owner. Yours was never denied just asked for a little more time to have a foster home for him.

Once again you're trying to deflect the attention away from the real issue here by trying to justify your actions by calling me out for past actions. And NO, I've not done the same things you have.....you don't want to open up that can of worms Kelly!

it's not a slap in the face.. everyone that has donated has received a thank you from me.. we have had a lot of support and thank you everyone for that.. at least we have some people who are more worried about the dogs than arguments.. you are so bitter! you've said your piece of mind.. just move on with life.

At the time I was told no fosters were available, nothing about give us more time.

So the donations you received in response to the thread you started on a biewer forum weren't used for this purpose?

With respect to the original poster and the rescue itself. I do hope that we can continue to discuss this and remain somewhat civil. I am sure there will plenty of questions come tomorrow now that Kelz has posted. I am hopeful that maybe it will all make sense in the end.... hopeful.

LOL....you would like for me to move on and let this controversy be over for you, hmmm? And, No, I'm not bitter just felt like the truth should be told finally.

OK-
I am going to steer the conversation back to the main topic. Purchasing dogs at auctions and who does it support? It is very obvious that some may feel it doesn't matter who it supports-it is about the inhumanity of leaving these babies.
Others feel that it supports everything we work so hard against-the perpetuation of a vicious cycle that will NEVER end without each and EVERY single person putting a stop to it.
To save one yorkie at a time is wonderful. But there are THOUSANDS and a bigger picture has to be looked at. A bigger solution.
Kelly-I have not said one bad thing about you or your fosters on this thread. I feel like YT is a HUGE supporter and that you are running a public organization.
There is not really a need for "bashing". Just say you are going to keep buying from auctions, your supporters and fellow rescues will know where you stand, and they can decide whether to support your rescue.
That is it. Glass house.

Hoping to clear the air ....

I am a volunteer for OKYR.
I have seen Michelle, Kathy & Kelly discuss this matter in this thread.
Kelly probably said it best by saying this is a lose/lose situation. Each & every person is entitled to their own opinion as to what is right &/or with going to a dog auction.

OKYR has gone to dog auctions to save them from going back into yet another breeding program. We have saved puppies from ever knowing that life & having to go through the mental damage, we have saved seniors that needed to be given a great "rest of their life" & YES... we have taken Beiwers. NO matter the circumstance of each auction dog, the intent for each one was to put them in a loving foster home, show them love they more than likely never saw, get the necessary vet care, OF COURSE spay/neuter each one & find great homes to live happily ever after.

OKYR has also taken in MANY owner surrenders with COSTLY medical issues, strays & saved from shelters (kill & no kill) as well. Again with each of these the intent is to give them great forever lives.

If your opinion of auctions, is that you dont support the decision of going... OKYR respects your decision & would hope you might, in a slight way, understand the thought process of going to auctions. YES... it is a double edge sword but to save a few from that horrible life..it is what OKYR feels needs to be done.

As far as turing away the one Jen is talking about.. we can only take in what we have foster homes available for. We have foster homes that have had anywhere from 1-3 fosters PLUS their personal pets at one time. OKYR does its best to take in every single rescue possible, but we have to have room to do so.

In closing... if you choose to continue to support OKYR.. we greatly appreciate any & all support we can get. If you choose to not support OKYR b/c it goes to auction from time to time... we respect your decision.

i'm civil.. like i said ..my number is right there on our website if anyone would like me to explain this to them on the phone.

that's is it! we do go to auction.. like it or not.. it is what it is.. there does need to be something done about mills.. but until there is.. i will still be there.. getting all the used up yorkies that no one wants.

No answer for this yet? Was the money given back because it wasn't needed?

it was answered privately.. way to add fuel to the fire jen!! Just keep stirring things up!! that's what you are good at!

Being that the question was asked publicly I thought the answer would be public too. But then I forget who I'm dealing with, someone that likes to sweep the dirt under the rug, it's what you're good at!

nope.. pm her if you want to know! by me posting more stuff on here that just gives you more stuff to sit there and dwell on it! this is all just personal towards me b/c you have a problem with me... and that's fine.. i'm not out to please everyone.. everyone has their own opinion.

The best way to keep your organization above reproach is to make all records public. You do have a responsibility to those supporting the Rescue through monitary contributions to be accountable and to make public how the funds are spent. That is the only way that individuals can decide where and how to donate the funds that they have set aside for this purpose.

I agree!:thumbup:

okay here is our donation stuff from 2008..i took all the names off..


$50.00 $0.00
$15.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$5.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$5.00 $0.00
$10.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$20.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$30.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$1,200.00 $0.00
$300.00 $0.00
$10.00 $0.00
$165.00 $0.00
$5.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$20.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$20.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$35.00 $0.00
$35.00 $0.00
$20.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$35.00 $0.00
$35.00 $0.00
$50.00
$200.00



$3,240.00 $0.00


and here is JUST our VET bills from 2008.. this does not include all of our other expenses that we have to pay for our dogs.

Expenses
Date What was done Which Vet Who For Cost
6/18/08 tecumseh $93.50
6/18/08 neuter 2nd chance chance $40.00
6/24/08 spay 2nd chance hope $40.00
6/26/08 tecumseh $174.00
7/9/08 tecumseh $63.50
7/14/08 tecumseh $96.00
7/17/08 neuter 2nd chance randy $40.00
7/24/08 tecumseh $276.50
8/4/08 teeth cleaning,neuter tecumseh harley,cyrus,baxter $259.00
8/4/08 tecumseh $150.00
8/14/08 tecumseh $112.00
9/11/08 parvo test council vet hosp. reese $96.12
10/1/08 spay/neuter/shots 2nd chance $220.00
10/1/08 vet checks tecumseh $328.00
10/2/08 vet checks tecumseh $75.00
10/9/08 tecumseh $272.50
10/14/08 well check pet vet $116.16
10/15/08 well check south side $130.00
10/17/08 well check south side $204.18
10/23/08 tecumseh $622.50
11/14/08 south side $133.00
12/12/08 south side $180.89
12/17/08 tecumseh $464.00

Total $4,186.85

there you go jen!!!! this is just to give you an idea..there are more vet bills that need to be added.. you can clearly see.. JUST our vet bills alone outweigh our donations.. and in 2009.. we have already paid for an lp surgery.. and have been treating dogs with demodex.. not to mention most of our dogs have had dentals this year as well. so how dare you try and say that we "make money"

Are the fees each person pays for a dog included in the donations? It doesn't appear so, bc as you said most of the dogs were sold for around $150 and I see very few donations in that amount.

Also, the list doesn't reflect the total amount in vet charges for each dog specifically. So, it's hard to see exactly what was spent on each dog (which you said was $200-300).

Furthermore, I have said to others, I don't believe you all make money as in money to spend on any old thing. I realize the money does go back into OKYR for future dog expenses. I did say you all had to have made some money or you would not have been able to buy more dogs. It's not the same a making a real profit, IMO.

i'm not going to sit here at midnight and go through this entire filing cabinet to make you happy and prove a point to you.. i'm just posting a short version. this is exactly what i'm talking about.. there is no making you happy.. jen is jen.. just bitter and has nothing better to do than pick on everyone else.. what do you want me to say jen?? are you just wanting to me to shut the rescue down?? would that be the better answer for you because you don't like how i run it? this whole thing is just personal towards me! i've gone out of my way to try and make you happy.. but i throw the towel in.. you win. nobody is perfect.

Never mind answering my last question. It's obvious the donation amounts don't include the fees paid for each dog by their new owner. The last time I was on the forum I believe the number of dogs rescued at that point was somewhere near 70-80 dogs. At an average of $150 adoption fee that would be at least $10,500. Is that not correct?

And btw, no it's not personal as you keep harping on about. OKYR just happened to be the rescue I was associated with and you happened to be the director. If I had found the same circumstances with any other organization I was involved with, I would voice the same concerns.

Your bitterness is understandable though, most whistle blowers are not looked upon favorably by those whom they've blown the whistle about.

Wow, this thread has really blown up. I hope everyone reading has learned all they need to know and can now make their opinions based off the responses. I'm sad that the thread got so heated because there was an informative, useful discussion in process. Now it will probably get shut down.

I keep seeing some posts about organizations being transparent. This is where having a 501c3 is useful.
Now, keep in mind that having that paperwork does not make an organization reputable, but it does give donors a way of understanding where their donations are going. It is also good because donors can then write off their donations.
I have posted before about Guidestar GuideStar nonprofit reports and Forms 990 for donors, grantmakers and businesses . If a rescue has a 501c3, then their records are public! You can see exactly what they have taken in and exactly where it is going! I do know of one rescue that I looked up recently that has not filed their form 990 but that can only go on for a short time before the IRS catches up to them. I believe it is around 5 years that a group's status is revisited.
Anyway......if anyone on here has a question about a group and how they spend their donations, look them up before you donate! You can also see how much they have in terms of assets. I know it was quite a shock to me to see that some groups carry an amazing bank account from year to year. I would also suggest you read their website very carefully. Read their mission statement and watch what they do to see if they are living up to it. You really can find out a lot by reading.
I am not saying that having that paperwork or not having it, makes a group legit or not legit. I am merely informing everyone that you can see what a group does with their donations if they have it.

QFT.

Shame on you and your petty bickering. I get that this is a public forum, but I, for one, don't care to see this. If you want to talk about the issue then do so. I think it's time we left this named organization and the personal slander OUT of this thread.

I see both sides, and I think Kelz has a good heart and is doing what she thinks is best for the dogs she cares about. If she didn't have good intentions then she wouldn't be here talking about it. She simply wouldn't care. She may be doing something wrong in some eyes, and in others she may be doing right. Just agree to disagree and stick to the original topic of discussion?