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Old 12-27-2008, 06:59 PM   #1
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Question About Papers...

When I bought Missy from a backyard breeder, she mentioned that the Mom had papers and the Dad did not. I didn't really care at the time because I'm not planning on breeding or showing my pets. Now, I'm just kind of curious about the papers. I live in Canada. Would Missy's Mom's papers tell me a bit more about where Missy came from? Is there any useful information on there that I might be interested in? If so, would it be rude of me to ask this woman for them? She was very nice and easy to deal with, I'm just wondering if it would be a normal thing to ask for, or if it's her private information. I'm not even really sure what the papers are for. I'm pretty naive when it comes to all of this
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:24 PM   #2
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They would tell you who her(Mom's) parents are and the lines she came from, but as far as health stuff-there'd be no info. I got the papers on my older yorkie(even though I spayed her), my hubby said you paid $1200 for her--you're getting her papers. Leah, my new baby was a gift, but I'd like her papers anyways to see her bloodlines.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:25 PM   #3
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Thank you. So, if I do get her Mom's papers, how would I go about researching the bloodlines? Just online?
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:31 PM   #4
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Honestly, I am not sure if you'd be able to access the Mom's papers thru AKC--but she could give you a copy of them--and then you could do a search. I mainly wanted Piper's papers to see what names were in her lines--and I'd like to do the same for Leah. I think the names are interesting and thepapers will also show if there were any champions in the lines.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:32 PM   #5
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I'm just going to email her now, it doesn't hurt to ask!
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:37 PM   #6
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If the mother has papers and the father does not you will not be able to research your pup since you will only be able to follow the family tree on one side. Since the father did not have papers then there really is no point as far as I can see. If as you say that your little one came from a BYB it can be assumed that even the papers of the mothers bloodlines might not be very accurate. The responsibility of keeping accurate track of the bloodline falls onto the breeder. Personally, I think way to much emphasis is placed on papers unless you are planning on either breeding or showing your dog which you say is not the case.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
If the mother has papers and the father does not you will not be able to research your pup since you will only be able to follow the family tree on one side. Since the father did not have papers then there really is no point as far as I can see. If as you say that your little one came from a BYB it can be assumed that even the papers of the mothers bloodlines might not be very accurate. The responsibility of keeping accurate track of the bloodline falls onto the breeder. Personally, I think way to much emphasis is placed on papers unless you are planning on either breeding or showing your dog which you say is not the case.
I agree. This is why I just kind of shrugged it off when she started talking about papers. I really don't care. I bought Missy to love her as a pet, not to breed or show. She will likely be too small to breed anyways. The little squirt weighed in at 1 lb 13 ozs yesterday @ 14 weeks of age.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:50 PM   #8
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Papers usually mean that the mother was registered, some breeders offer the pedigree with the puppy and this would be like a family tree, giving both the names of mother and father going back maybe five or 6 generations, and any champions would be listed in red. Probably all you would be given is the mother's registration number, and from this you could do a search on the mother's ancestors, but it probably wouldn't turn up anything too fascinating.

I registered Joey not so much so that I could show off his pedigree but because I believe in supporting the AKC and what they are trying to accomplish. I'm also hoping that in the future these records of backgrounds might help us with learn more about genetic illnesses.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megansmomma View Post
If the mother has papers and the father does not you will not be able to research your pup since you will only be able to follow the family tree on one side. Since the father did not have papers then there really is no point as far as I can see. If as you say that your little one came from a BYB it can be assumed that even the papers of the mothers bloodlines might not be very accurate. The responsibility of keeping accurate track of the bloodline falls onto the breeder. Personally, I think way to much emphasis is placed on papers unless you are planning on either breeding or showing your dog which you say is not the case.


Papers are the equivalent of a birth certificate for humans. They only tell you that your puppy is the offspring of two purebred dogs if the papers are from a reputable registry. If they are from an "alternative" registry, they are worthless.

I think you may be referring to a pedigree when you say you want to research your puppy's bloodlines. Puppies from backyard breeders usually don't have well known bloodlines.
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Old 12-27-2008, 08:00 PM   #10
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I just kinda wanted to know where Missy came from. I know she herself didn't come from a puppymill, but I want to be sure her parents didn't either. I guess that I can't tell that if the Dad isn't registered anyways. Ah well! I did email her, so we'll see what she says.
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Old 12-27-2008, 08:39 PM   #11
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Papers are the equivalent of a birth certificate for humans. They only tell you that your puppy is the offspring of two purebred dogs if the papers are from a reputable registry. If they are from an "alternative" registry, they are worthless.

I think you may be referring to a pedigree when you say you want to research your puppy's bloodlines. Puppies from backyard breeders usually don't have well known bloodlines.
I think that is what she is referring to as the puppies pedigee. But only the mother was registered not the father. I was calling them papers because that is how she referred to them.
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Old 12-27-2008, 08:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by LilMissy View Post
I just kinda wanted to know where Missy came from. I know she herself didn't come from a puppymill, but I want to be sure her parents didn't either. I guess that I can't tell that if the Dad isn't registered anyways. Ah well! I did email her, so we'll see what she says.
Missy is a little doll! At this point does it even matter other than she is all yours now to love and spoil.
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMissy View Post
When I bought Missy from a backyard breeder, she mentioned that the Mom had papers and the Dad did not. I didn't really care at the time because I'm not planning on breeding or showing my pets. Now, I'm just kind of curious about the papers. I live in Canada. Would Missy's Mom's papers tell me a bit more about where Missy came from? Is there any useful information on there that I might be interested in? If so, would it be rude of me to ask this woman for them? She was very nice and easy to deal with, I'm just wondering if it would be a normal thing to ask for, or if it's her private information. I'm not even really sure what the papers are for. I'm pretty naive when it comes to all of this
It certainly wouldn't be rude to ask to see the mom's papers. And yes, it's a "normal" thing to do. Ideally, a breeder will show you the pedigree and papers before you buy a puppy. It isn't her private information, it should be part of the screening process.

I've attached pictures of American Kennel Club registration papers and a pedigree so you can see the difference.
Attached Thumbnails
About Papers...-lanya_kennel.jpg   About Papers...-hershey_pedigree.jpg  
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:00 PM   #14
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Thank you Ladymom, that was very helpful.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:21 AM   #15
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I've seen papers indicating if there is a champion in the line. I don't know if this is done by the AKC or a mod to the papers by the owner. It might, in general, be nice to know if there is champion blood in the lineage.
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